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Post by greg on Jul 28, 2020 12:19:57 GMT
Now, I’m really stupid here so someone please answer for me that TFL do have to pay for their bus stations or are they owned and can be sold?
Because pre-Covid TFL will have to do their best to save on the money, and I think one way is getting rid of smaller bus stations etc and removing routes from them by like cutting them back or finding another stand.
Like for example, Aldgate Bus Station can easily be gone and in my opinion not needed (could be a waste of money) and you could easily move all four routes (115, 242, 254 and 343) to stand at Houndstich and Duke’s Place.
At Aldgate Square, the Duke’s Place bus stop was temporarily moved there due to roadworks but it seems like a good bus stand and could fit three buses and the bus stop has since moved back to its original location, so could be a perfect bus stand.
The Houndstich bus stand is also now free since the 40 is gone and the 343 stands in the bus station, and is a PERFECT stand for the 254 and another smaller route like the 115/242 because its so big and walking distance from Liverpool Street.
They could fit a small stand also at the opposite side of Hounstich so towards east, for a small route where the current Botolph Street bus stop as the 40s sometimes use to stand there when the bus stand overlapped with the roadworks. And some on Bishopgate where the Duke’s Place bus stop is.
The only problem is this will fill Houndstich will buses, but theyre very quiet roads anyways but removing certain bus stations could be a perfect part-solution.
Another bus station that could go, could be Mile End, with only the 323 and D7 they could move them to stand elsewhere.
And lastly, they should get rid of some stands and put routes which terminate near or at a garage within the same company, let them stand inside the garage like for example the 123/243 at WN alongside the 29 which already does this
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Post by greenboy on Jul 28, 2020 12:26:06 GMT
Now, I’m really stupid here so someone please answer for me that TFL do have to pay for their bus stations or are they owned and can be sold? Because pre-Covid TFL will have to do their best to save on the money, and I think one way is getting rid of smaller bus stations etc and removing routes from them by like cutting them back or finding another stand. Like for example, Aldgate Bus Station can easily be gone and in my opinion not needed (could be a waste of money) and you could easily move all four routes (115, 242, 254 and 343) to stand at Houndstich and Duke’s Place. At Aldgate Square, the Duke’s Place bus stop was temporarily moved there due to roadworks but it seems like a good bus stand and could fit three buses and the bus stop has since moved back to its original location, so could be a perfect bus stand. The Houndstich bus stand is also now free since the 40 is gone and the 343 stands in the bus station, and is a PERFECT stand for the 254 and another smaller route like the 115/242 because its so big and walking distance from Liverpool Street. They could fit a small stand also at the opposite side of Hounstich so towards east, for a small route where the current Botolph Street bus stop as the 40s sometimes use to stand there when the bus stand overlapped with the roadworks. And some on Bishopgate where the Duke’s Place bus stop is. The only problem is this will fill Houndstich will buses, but theyre very quiet roads anyways but removing certain bus stations could be a perfect part-solution. Another bus station that could go, could be Mile End, with only the 323 and D7 they could move them to stand elsewhere. And lastly, they should get rid of some stands and put routes which terminate near or at a garage within the same company, let them stand inside the garage like for example the 123/243 at WN alongside the 29 which already does this Standing in the garage is fine in the daytime but once it fills up with returning buses after the evening peak there will be problems at some garages. I think the 29 is banned from the garage in the evening, it certainly was in bendy bus days, and another example is the 74 going out of service to Putney Heath in the evening to stand rather than AF. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 12:52:24 GMT
Now, I’m really stupid here so someone please answer for me that TFL do have to pay for their bus stations or are they owned and can be sold? Because pre-Covid TFL will have to do their best to save on the money, and I think one way is getting rid of smaller bus stations etc and removing routes from them by like cutting them back or finding another stand. Like for example, Aldgate Bus Station can easily be gone and in my opinion not needed (could be a waste of money) and you could easily move all four routes (115, 242, 254 and 343) to stand at Houndstich and Duke’s Place. At Aldgate Square, the Duke’s Place bus stop was temporarily moved there due to roadworks but it seems like a good bus stand and could fit three buses and the bus stop has since moved back to its original location, so could be a perfect bus stand. The Houndstich bus stand is also now free since the 40 is gone and the 343 stands in the bus station, and is a PERFECT stand for the 254 and another smaller route like the 115/242 because its so big and walking distance from Liverpool Street. They could fit a small stand also at the opposite side of Hounstich so towards east, for a small route where the current Botolph Street bus stop as the 40s sometimes use to stand there when the bus stand overlapped with the roadworks. And some on Bishopgate where the Duke’s Place bus stop is. The only problem is this will fill Houndstich will buses, but theyre very quiet roads anyways but removing certain bus stations could be a perfect part-solution. Another bus station that could go, could be Mile End, with only the 323 and D7 they could move them to stand elsewhere. And lastly, they should get rid of some stands and put routes which terminate near or at a garage within the same company, let them stand inside the garage like for example the 123/243 at WN alongside the 29 which already does this Sending more buses around the Bevis Marks/Houndsditch loop is a bad idea. It already causes enough disruption to the 343s let alone all other routes going around there. Always get delays there in the evening peak. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 13:25:53 GMT
Now, I’m really stupid here so someone please answer for me that TFL do have to pay for their bus stations or are they owned and can be sold? Because pre-Covid TFL will have to do their best to save on the money, and I think one way is getting rid of smaller bus stations etc and removing routes from them by like cutting them back or finding another stand. Like for example, Aldgate Bus Station can easily be gone and in my opinion not needed (could be a waste of money) and you could easily move all four routes (115, 242, 254 and 343) to stand at Houndstich and Duke’s Place. At Aldgate Square, the Duke’s Place bus stop was temporarily moved there due to roadworks but it seems like a good bus stand and could fit three buses and the bus stop has since moved back to its original location, so could be a perfect bus stand. The Houndstich bus stand is also now free since the 40 is gone and the 343 stands in the bus station, and is a PERFECT stand for the 254 and another smaller route like the 115/242 because its so big and walking distance from Liverpool Street. They could fit a small stand also at the opposite side of Hounstich so towards east, for a small route where the current Botolph Street bus stop as the 40s sometimes use to stand there when the bus stand overlapped with the roadworks. And some on Bishopgate where the Duke’s Place bus stop is. The only problem is this will fill Houndstich will buses, but theyre very quiet roads anyways but removing certain bus stations could be a perfect part-solution. Another bus station that could go, could be Mile End, with only the 323 and D7 they could move them to stand elsewhere. And lastly, they should get rid of some stands and put routes which terminate near or at a garage within the same company, let them stand inside the garage like for example the 123/243 at WN alongside the 29 which already does this The Mile End stand is used by the 25,277,425 for short turns too. Not sure of anywhere suitable in the area to turn the D7/323. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2020 13:27:23 GMT
Now, I’m really stupid here so someone please answer for me that TFL do have to pay for their bus stations or are they owned and can be sold? Because pre-Covid TFL will have to do their best to save on the money, and I think one way is getting rid of smaller bus stations etc and removing routes from them by like cutting them back or finding another stand. Like for example, Aldgate Bus Station can easily be gone and in my opinion not needed (could be a waste of money) and you could easily move all four routes (115, 242, 254 and 343) to stand at Houndstich and Duke’s Place. At Aldgate Square, the Duke’s Place bus stop was temporarily moved there due to roadworks but it seems like a good bus stand and could fit three buses and the bus stop has since moved back to its original location, so could be a perfect bus stand. The Houndstich bus stand is also now free since the 40 is gone and the 343 stands in the bus station, and is a PERFECT stand for the 254 and another smaller route like the 115/242 because its so big and walking distance from Liverpool Street. They could fit a small stand also at the opposite side of Hounstich so towards east, for a small route where the current Botolph Street bus stop as the 40s sometimes use to stand there when the bus stand overlapped with the roadworks. And some on Bishopgate where the Duke’s Place bus stop is. The only problem is this will fill Houndstich will buses, but theyre very quiet roads anyways but removing certain bus stations could be a perfect part-solution. Another bus station that could go, could be Mile End, with only the 323 and D7 they could move them to stand elsewhere. And lastly, they should get rid of some stands and put routes which terminate near or at a garage within the same company, let them stand inside the garage like for example the 123/243 at WN alongside the 29 which already does this Mile End doesn’t have a bus station - it’s a standing area. First & last stops are on the main roads. Even if it was, finding extra stand elsewhere will always be problematic for many reasons. Far too much bus infrastructure like garages & stands have needlessly been lost over the years so I’m against removing any more. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 29, 2020 10:51:10 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping.
There are also some bus stations that do need a lot of work done to them, as well as bus stands. Going back to Ilford the Hainault Street stand is just ridiculous as it keeps overcrowding and over in Barking the station stand is an overcrowded mess while the 169 stand has so much space for a single route it's just silly. Stratford Bus station is another overcrowded mess with buses always going around in circles to find a stand space while Stratford international with all its space has one single route there.
An issue with removing bus stations in favour of stands is that it's rare that every route in a bus station will be able to then fit into a stand in one area. When Aldgate bus station was closed a few years ago temporarily the 115 was standing on Mansell Street with the 40 at Fenchurch Street and then goodness knows where the 67 and 254 were standing. This just adds unnecessary confusion in where to pick up a bus as before when everything used to be in one place routes will end up dotted all over the place. Oxford Circus is a real headache due to how the stands are dotted everywhere and routes all have their first stops in different locations. Someone needing to get a 55 will need to hunt around to find the Holles Street stop for example. Lewisham is another headache of an area, the bus station just resulted in routes being thrown all over the place.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jul 29, 2020 12:25:48 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping. Woolwich comes to mind. Bexleyheath could do with one too. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 29, 2020 13:06:09 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping. Woolwich comes to mind. Bexleyheath could do with one too. Woolwich has to be one of the worst, Bexleyheath was generally alright as until the 422 got cut and the 301 was created as the stands were just spread between two locations. Now you have this annoying case where the 422 has to loop the Clock Tower twice. |
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Post by greg on Jul 29, 2020 15:13:46 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping. There are also some bus stations that do need a lot of work done to them, as well as bus stands. Going back to Ilford the Hainault Street stand is just ridiculous as it keeps overcrowding and over in Barking the station stand is an overcrowded mess while the 169 stand has so much space for a single route it's just silly. Stratford Bus station is another overcrowded mess with buses always going around in circles to find a stand space while Stratford international with all its space has one single route there. An issue with removing bus stations in favour of stands is that it's rare that every route in a bus station will be able to then fit into a stand in one area. When Aldgate bus station was closed a few years ago temporarily the 115 was standing on Mansell Street with the 40 at Fenchurch Street and then goodness knows where the 67 and 254 were standing. This just adds unnecessary confusion in where to pick up a bus as before when everything used to be in one place routes will end up dotted all over the place. Oxford Circus is a real headache due to how the stands are dotted everywhere and routes all have their first stops in different locations. Someone needing to get a 55 will need to hunt around to find the Holles Street stop for example. Lewisham is another headache of an area, the bus station just resulted in routes being thrown all over the place. You actually have a great point, and although Liverpool Street does have a bus station I do think there is a lot of confusion with the 11 and 42 as they don’t stand in the bus station and are way closer to Shoreditch. If theres not enough space for the two routes, they should rename it Shoreditch High Street instead of Liverpool Street. And also at Shoreditch Church, the 35 and 47 carry on another stop to Shoreditch High Street whereas the 78 stands on Curtain Road, they could all just terminate in one location. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 29, 2020 17:35:07 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping. There are also some bus stations that do need a lot of work done to them, as well as bus stands. Going back to Ilford the Hainault Street stand is just ridiculous as it keeps overcrowding and over in Barking the station stand is an overcrowded mess while the 169 stand has so much space for a single route it's just silly. Stratford Bus station is another overcrowded mess with buses always going around in circles to find a stand space while Stratford international with all its space has one single route there. An issue with removing bus stations in favour of stands is that it's rare that every route in a bus station will be able to then fit into a stand in one area. When Aldgate bus station was closed a few years ago temporarily the 115 was standing on Mansell Street with the 40 at Fenchurch Street and then goodness knows where the 67 and 254 were standing. This just adds unnecessary confusion in where to pick up a bus as before when everything used to be in one place routes will end up dotted all over the place. Oxford Circus is a real headache due to how the stands are dotted everywhere and routes all have their first stops in different locations. Someone needing to get a 55 will need to hunt around to find the Holles Street stop for example. Lewisham is another headache of an area, the bus station just resulted in routes being thrown all over the place. You actually have a great point, and although Liverpool Street does have a bus station I do think there is a lot of confusion with the 11 and 42 as they don’t stand in the bus station and are way closer to Shoreditch. If theres not enough space for the two routes, they should rename it Shoreditch High Street instead of Liverpool Street. And also at Shoreditch Church, the 35 and 47 carry on another stop to Shoreditch High Street whereas the 78 stands on Curtain Road, they could all just terminate in one location. The 42’s last stop is not on Shoreditch High Street though - it’s on Appold Street in the area known as Liverpool Street hence why the blind says Liverpool Street. The 78 terminates on Curtain Road because the stand on Shoreditch High Street can only accommodate the 35 & 47. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 29, 2020 17:37:21 GMT
I think instead of removing bus stations we actually need more of them. There's too many areas which are just a huge mess of stops like Ilford and no centralised area exists where you can easily interchange without crossing a busy road somewhere and then walking through swathes of people shopping. Woolwich comes to mind. Bexleyheath could do with one too. But where's the space for them? Bexleyheath has already got a off road stand. Lewisham could do with something better, buses set down at the station and at busy times by the time they get to the Thurston Road stand it's time to leave again. |
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Post by Catford94 on Jul 29, 2020 19:41:24 GMT
the idea of moving bus stands "somewhere else" is all very well, but finding "somewhere else" is rarely simple or easy to implement. as for using operators' garages, if any alternative is removed, it puts the incumbent operator at a bit of an unfair advantage when it comes up for tender if there isn't any possible alternative left. when routes like the 8 or 36 are tendered (the page www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/036.html includes a tender spec), TFL specify somewhere else (in the case of the 36, New Cross Sainsburys) but it's open to GA London to put an alternative bid in based on use of NX Garage. When LT ran its own buses, there were plenty of routes that terminated (or had short turns) in other garages, but there must be all manner of practical, legal and insurance implications if operator A's buses go in to and their drivers start wandering around in operator B's garage. Don't think there are many left - 171 turning / standing in part of the yard at TL is the only one I can think of (and don't know whether the GA drivers are allowed in to use the facilities) |
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Post by george on Jul 29, 2020 19:58:30 GMT
the idea of moving bus stands "somewhere else" is all very well, but finding "somewhere else" is rarely simple or easy to implement. as for using operators' garages, if any alternative is removed, it puts the incumbent operator at a bit of an unfair advantage when it comes up for tender if there isn't any possible alternative left. when routes like the 8 or 36 are tendered (the page www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/036.html includes a tender spec), TFL specify somewhere else (in the case of the 36, New Cross Sainsburys) but it's open to GA London to put an alternative bid in based on use of NX Garage. When LT ran its own buses, there were plenty of routes that terminated (or had short turns) in other garages, but there must be all manner of practical, legal and insurance implications if operator A's buses go in to and their drivers start wandering around in operator B's garage. Don't think there are many left - 171 turning / standing in part of the yard at TL is the only one I can think of (and don't know whether the GA drivers are allowed in to use the facilities) 33 terminates at TF (kind of) I know the bit just outside is owned by TFL but it does go past the front gate of TF so think it should count. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 29, 2020 20:05:51 GMT
the idea of moving bus stands "somewhere else" is all very well, but finding "somewhere else" is rarely simple or easy to implement. as for using operators' garages, if any alternative is removed, it puts the incumbent operator at a bit of an unfair advantage when it comes up for tender if there isn't any possible alternative left. when routes like the 8 or 36 are tendered (the page www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/036.html includes a tender spec), TFL specify somewhere else (in the case of the 36, New Cross Sainsburys) but it's open to GA London to put an alternative bid in based on use of NX Garage. When LT ran its own buses, there were plenty of routes that terminated (or had short turns) in other garages, but there must be all manner of practical, legal and insurance implications if operator A's buses go in to and their drivers start wandering around in operator B's garage. Don't think there are many left - 171 turning / standing in part of the yard at TL is the only one I can think of (and don't know whether the GA drivers are allowed in to use the facilities) Yes drivers on the 171 can use the facilities at TL, likewise I think Abellio drivers on the 68 can use facilities at Norwood Garage. |
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Post by hangerlane on Aug 1, 2020 14:38:44 GMT
the idea of moving bus stands "somewhere else" is all very well, but finding "somewhere else" is rarely simple or easy to implement. as for using operators' garages, if any alternative is removed, it puts the incumbent operator at a bit of an unfair advantage when it comes up for tender if there isn't any possible alternative left. when routes like the 8 or 36 are tendered (the page www.londonbuses.co.uk/_routes/current/036.html includes a tender spec), TFL specify somewhere else (in the case of the 36, New Cross Sainsburys) but it's open to GA London to put an alternative bid in based on use of NX Garage. When LT ran its own buses, there were plenty of routes that terminated (or had short turns) in other garages, but there must be all manner of practical, legal and insurance implications if operator A's buses go in to and their drivers start wandering around in operator B's garage. Don't think there are many left - 171 turning / standing in part of the yard at TL is the only one I can think of (and don't know whether the GA drivers are allowed in to use the facilities) One I particularly re,member is the old 105, which used to terminate at Shepherd's Bush Wells Road, which is basically Shepherd's Bush garage. t was operated by S and HW (Southall). At one time the 11 used to terminate there as well. Much of the time, no Shepherd's Bush buses were allocated, buses provided by Riverside, Gillingham Street and Dalston. |
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