|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 30, 2020 20:33:51 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork?
- The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained
- The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER,
- The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction
- Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham
- The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services;
• the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service
• A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street
- Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own
|
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Jul 30, 2020 22:58:34 GMT
If it were purely up to me, all GN and Southern suburban routes would go to TfL, and the rest would go in one franchise, with no change to routes.
|
|
|
|
Post by YY13VKP on Jul 31, 2020 0:25:22 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own The May 2018 timetable change effectively rendered Great Northern useless. The only lines they exclusively serve now are Kings Lynn, the Hertford Loop and the Moorgate Branch. Whilst it seems inevitable that the Moorgate branch will soon become part of the London Overground Network but I think that the remaining GN services could become part of the Greater Anglia franchise? I can't see it becoming part of LNER or the future ECP franchise holder anytime soon as it's best if they concentrate on long distance services rather than having to worry about Anglian routes to Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn. Because the Southern and Thameslink network covers the vast majority of the same area (apart from London Victoria), I still believe the current arrangement works best. I think there also needs to be a peak time Thameslink service from Welwyn/Stevenage or Luton to Caterham and/or Tattenham Corner. The 707's would have been perfect to fulfil this role as they could have divided at Purley rather than running separate services but now these are on their way to Southeastern. I do agree that the East Croydon to Milton Keynes service should become part of the Thameslink network although I think it could warrant an extension to Three Bridges or Brighton if so. Extending it to Birmingham New Street however, that would be something CrossCountry could operate. I wouldn't be surprised if they take on the Voyagers being made redundant from Avanti West Coast, so there's potential to restart services to Brighton. I do wish they still ran the Brighton to Manchester Piccadilly service, would have been so useful for me whenever I had to commute to uni. |
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jul 31, 2020 7:37:07 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own I like the Rainham service as it gives my area a direct link into Kings Cross, North West London, St Albans and Luton Airport. The link is used well by commuters and local schools. The stopping pattern was put in place as fast peak trains would fly past stations with crowded platforms. We badly needed extra capacity and Thameslink gave us that capacity and improved connectivity with other areas. If I want to travel fast into North Kent, as I’ve often done into Gravesend or Northfleet, I use HS1 from either St Pancras or Stratford. At off peak times where I’ve had enough time and wanted to save money I caught a bus to Dartford then switched to Fasttrack. The Thameslink services are so interdependent, does it make sense to separate them? I wasn’t a fan initially, due to the shambolic launch, but I’m converted since the service pattern has settled down. My only complaint is the iron board seats on those trains. What kind of masochist designed a seat like that? Ouch. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jul 31, 2020 8:27:00 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own I like the Rainham service as it gives my area a direct link into Kings Cross, North West London, St Albans and Luton Airport. The link is used well by commuters and local schools. The stopping pattern was put in place as fast peak trains would fly past stations with crowded platforms. We badly needed extra capacity and Thameslink gave us that capacity and improved connectivity with other areas. If I want to travel fast into North Kent, as I’ve often done into Gravesend or Northfleet, I use HS1 from either St Pancras or Stratford. At off peak times where I’ve had enough time and wanted to save money I caught a bus to Dartford then switched to Fasttrack. The Thameslink services are so interdependent, does it make sense to separate them? I wasn’t a fan initially, due to the shambolic launch, but I’m converted since the service pattern has settled down. My only complaint is the iron board seats on those trains. What kind of masochist designed a seat like that? Ouch. Yes the problem is that the Rainham service can't be speeded up without other stations suffering, I think the long term objective should be to extend Crossrail to Rainham with the Thameslink service terminating at Dartford or Gravesend. I think the Thameslink service is very good now and although initially I wasn't impressed with the ironing board seats but I've got used to them now. |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 10:16:07 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own I like the Rainham service as it gives my area a direct link into Kings Cross, North West London, St Albans and Luton Airport. The link is used well by commuters and local schools. The stopping pattern was put in place as fast peak trains would fly past stations with crowded platforms. We badly needed extra capacity and Thameslink gave us that capacity and improved connectivity with other areas. If I want to travel fast into North Kent, as I’ve often done into Gravesend or Northfleet, I use HS1 from either St Pancras or Stratford. At off peak times where I’ve had enough time and wanted to save money I caught a bus to Dartford then switched to Fasttrack. The Thameslink services are so interdependent, does it make sense to separate them? I wasn’t a fan initially, due to the shambolic launch, but I’m converted since the service pattern has settled down. My only complaint is the iron board seats on those trains. What kind of masochist designed a seat like that? Ouch. Thameslink might be popular from Dartford onwards (and even then I’ve heard many complain about the slow times to get to NW London) but further out Thameslink isn’t popular due to the unreasonable stopping pattern Thameslink isn’t needed along the Woolwich line, it just isn’t, it was a last minute add on and wasn’t even part of the original plans, CrossRail will be the real game changer, and I can see Thameslink being withdrawn after a few years because CrossRail will be faster than Thameslink is That maybe the case in peak times for stopping all stations but stations like Slade Green and Plumstead don’t need 8tph off peak, they’re quiet suburban stations. I don’t see why those who live further out should have a stopping service just because people In the inner suburbs don’t want to wait a few extra minutes for a train, bear in mind before the changes the was 6tph (the additional 2tph being the semi fasts) this is pretty much the average for a London station, 8tph is a bit overkill for Plumstead and Slade Green, they’re hardly Abbey Wood, Woolwich A or Charlton of which they’re either major destinations in their own right or major interchanges. If you want St. Albans you could either catch a train to London Bridge then change or when CrossRail opens go to Abbey Wood or Woolwich and get that to Farringdon and get the fast Thameslink train Restore the fast pattern And remove Thameslink would be better all round. |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 10:18:58 GMT
I like the Rainham service as it gives my area a direct link into Kings Cross, North West London, St Albans and Luton Airport. The link is used well by commuters and local schools. The stopping pattern was put in place as fast peak trains would fly past stations with crowded platforms. We badly needed extra capacity and Thameslink gave us that capacity and improved connectivity with other areas. If I want to travel fast into North Kent, as I’ve often done into Gravesend or Northfleet, I use HS1 from either St Pancras or Stratford. At off peak times where I’ve had enough time and wanted to save money I caught a bus to Dartford then switched to Fasttrack. The Thameslink services are so interdependent, does it make sense to separate them? I wasn’t a fan initially, due to the shambolic launch, but I’m converted since the service pattern has settled down. My only complaint is the iron board seats on those trains. What kind of masochist designed a seat like that? Ouch. Yes the problem is that the Rainham service can't be speeded up without other stations suffering, I think the long term objective should be to extend Crossrail to Rainham with the Thameslink service terminating at Dartford or Gravesend. I think the Thameslink service is very good now and although initially I wasn't impressed with the ironing board seats but I've got used to them now. The CrossRail extension is probably going to be delayed for years due to the fact that we’re facing a even worse economic crash since 2008, meantime it would be best to boost the amount of tph from Gravesend to Abbey Wood to 4tph and extend the semi fasts down to Maidstone as a feeder to CrossRail. |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 10:23:40 GMT
The Sutton Loop would be diverted to Victoria at Herne Hill and would make additional calls at Clapham H.S. & Wandsworth Rd, this will restore their link to Victoria
|
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jul 31, 2020 13:01:48 GMT
I like the Rainham service as it gives my area a direct link into Kings Cross, North West London, St Albans and Luton Airport. The link is used well by commuters and local schools. The stopping pattern was put in place as fast peak trains would fly past stations with crowded platforms. We badly needed extra capacity and Thameslink gave us that capacity and improved connectivity with other areas. If I want to travel fast into North Kent, as I’ve often done into Gravesend or Northfleet, I use HS1 from either St Pancras or Stratford. At off peak times where I’ve had enough time and wanted to save money I caught a bus to Dartford then switched to Fasttrack. The Thameslink services are so interdependent, does it make sense to separate them? I wasn’t a fan initially, due to the shambolic launch, but I’m converted since the service pattern has settled down. My only complaint is the iron board seats on those trains. What kind of masochist designed a seat like that? Ouch. Thameslink might be popular from Dartford onwards (and even then I’ve heard many complain about the slow times to get to NW London) but further out Thameslink isn’t popular due to the unreasonable stopping pattern Thameslink isn’t needed along the Woolwich line, it just isn’t, it was a last minute add on and wasn’t even part of the original plans, CrossRail will be the real game changer, and I can see Thameslink being withdrawn after a few years because CrossRail will be faster than Thameslink is That maybe the case in peak times for stopping all stations but stations like Slade Green and Plumstead don’t need 8tph off peak, they’re quiet suburban stations. I don’t see why those who live further out should have a stopping service just because people In the inner suburbs don’t want to wait a few extra minutes for a train, bear in mind before the changes the was 6tph (the additional 2tph being the semi fasts) this is pretty much the average for a London station, 8tph is a bit overkill for Plumstead and Slade Green, they’re hardly Abbey Wood, Woolwich A or Charlton of which they’re either major destinations in their own right or major interchanges. If you want St. Albans you could either catch a train to London Bridge then change or when CrossRail opens go to Abbey Wood or Woolwich and get that to Farringdon and get the fast Thameslink train Restore the fast pattern And remove Thameslink would be better all round. Do you commute from Plumstead? I spent many years commuting from that station but I gave up in the end due to overcrowding and unreliability. The 8tph is not overkill. It is now possible to board a train at Plumstead in the morning peak without being crammed in Japan-style or being left at the platform. Since the service enhancement I have now abandoned Uber to North Greenwich for my long distance commutes and get a national rail service to Waterloo via London Bridge instead. Also if you have direct train links, it reduces reliance on cars for longer journeys. I can’t see Thameslink to Rainham being withdrawn in the near future until at least until the works to unblock the Croydon bottleneck are complete in 2028 (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/sussex/upgrading-the-brighton-main-line/unblocking-the-croydon-bottleneck/). That might make it possible to divert the 2tph away from Greenwich and into Croydon and beyond. But if we get rid of Thameslink at that time, the gap in capacity will still need to be plugged which in 2028 would mean SouthEastern services only going to Charing Cross or Cannon Street with a similar stopping pattern to the current Rainham service. There are thousands of new homes being built or planned across Greenwich, Woolwich, Plumstead, Thamesmead and Erith. Services into Woolwich, Greenwich, London Bridge, Waterloo and Charing Cross are popular and not directly possible by Crossrail and the demand for those destinations isn’t going to evaporate once Crossrail opens. Thameslink or no Thameslink, I hope we never return to the days of half empty trains racing past packed platforms on the Greenwich line whilst passengers get left behind after waiting for an already full service to arrive at the station. |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 13:14:09 GMT
Thameslink might be popular from Dartford onwards (and even then I’ve heard many complain about the slow times to get to NW London) but further out Thameslink isn’t popular due to the unreasonable stopping pattern Thameslink isn’t needed along the Woolwich line, it just isn’t, it was a last minute add on and wasn’t even part of the original plans, CrossRail will be the real game changer, and I can see Thameslink being withdrawn after a few years because CrossRail will be faster than Thameslink is That maybe the case in peak times for stopping all stations but stations like Slade Green and Plumstead don’t need 8tph off peak, they’re quiet suburban stations. I don’t see why those who live further out should have a stopping service just because people In the inner suburbs don’t want to wait a few extra minutes for a train, bear in mind before the changes the was 6tph (the additional 2tph being the semi fasts) this is pretty much the average for a London station, 8tph is a bit overkill for Plumstead and Slade Green, they’re hardly Abbey Wood, Woolwich A or Charlton of which they’re either major destinations in their own right or major interchanges. If you want St. Albans you could either catch a train to London Bridge then change or when CrossRail opens go to Abbey Wood or Woolwich and get that to Farringdon and get the fast Thameslink train Restore the fast pattern And remove Thameslink would be better all round. Do you commute from Plumstead? I spent many years commuting from that station but I gave up in the end due to overcrowding and unreliability. The 8tph is not overkill. It is now possible to board a train at Plumstead in the morning peak without being crammed in Japan-style or being left at the platform. Since the service enhancement I have now abandoned Uber to North Greenwich for my long distance commutes and get a national rail service to Waterloo via London Bridge instead. Also if you have direct train links, it reduces reliance on cars for longer journeys. I can’t see Thameslink to Rainham being withdrawn in the near future until at least until the works to unblock the Croydon bottleneck are complete in 2028 (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/sussex/upgrading-the-brighton-main-line/unblocking-the-croydon-bottleneck/). That might make it possible to divert the 2tph away from Greenwich and into Croydon and beyond. But if we get rid of Thameslink at that time, the gap in capacity will still need to be plugged which in 2028 would mean SouthEastern services only going to Charing Cross or Cannon Street with a similar stopping pattern to the current Rainham service. There are thousands of new homes being built or planned across Greenwich, Woolwich, Plumstead, Thamesmead and Erith. Services into Woolwich, Greenwich, London Bridge, Waterloo and Charing Cross are popular and not directly possible by Crossrail and the demand for those destinations isn’t going to evaporate once Crossrail opens. Thameslink or no Thameslink, I hope we never return to the days of half empty trains racing past packed platforms on the Greenwich line whilst passengers get left behind after waiting for an already full service to arrive at the station. That doesn’t mean people beyond Gravesend should have a slower service though, that’s unreasonable Yes they have HS1 but it’s too far out for a stopping service, Plumstead might be busy at peaks but it’s a quiet station off peak, I’m very familiar with that line so 8tph off peak is definitely overkill for Plumstead. CrossRail will change the patterns in areas east of Abbey Wood, CrossRail will eventually take passengers to the Docklands, City and West End all on one line in addition to Heathrow which is far more superior to Luton, that’s much better than a slow Thameslink service which only takes you to the city, the CrossRail extension may or may not happen so best case scenario is up the tph from Medway/Gravesend to Abbey Wood from 2tph to 4tph You can’t live in the inner suburbs and expect all trains an hour to stop at your station at the expense at those way further out So because passengers might get left behind all outer suburban Services should stop at every minor station then? |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 13:24:25 GMT
If it were purely up to me, all GN and Southern suburban routes would go to TfL, and the rest would go in one franchise, with no change to routes. GN inners will go to TfL, Southern metro is a bit more complicated, TfL has no money and I doubt that London’s suburban rail Network will turn Orange any time soon beyond the Moorgate lines sadly |
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Jul 31, 2020 14:56:58 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own The May 2018 timetable change effectively rendered Great Northern useless. The only lines they exclusively serve now are Kings Lynn, the Hertford Loop and the Moorgate Branch. Whilst it seems inevitable that the Moorgate branch will soon become part of the London Overground Network but I think that the remaining GN services could become part of the Greater Anglia franchise? I can't see it becoming part of LNER or the future ECP franchise holder anytime soon as it's best if they concentrate on long distance services rather than having to worry about Anglian routes to Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn. Because the Southern and Thameslink network covers the vast majority of the same area (apart from London Victoria), I still believe the current arrangement works best. I think there also needs to be a peak time Thameslink service from Welwyn/Stevenage or Luton to Caterham and/or Tattenham Corner. The 707's would have been perfect to fulfil this role as they could have divided at Purley rather than running separate services but now these are on their way to Southeastern. I do agree that the East Croydon to Milton Keynes service should become part of the Thameslink network although I think it could warrant an extension to Three Bridges or Brighton if so. Extending it to Birmingham New Street however, that would be something CrossCountry could operate. I wouldn't be surprised if they take on the Voyagers being made redundant from Avanti West Coast, so there's potential to restart services to Brighton. I do wish they still ran the Brighton to Manchester Piccadilly service, would have been so useful for me whenever I had to commute to uni. I do wish the CrossCountry services would venture back through Croydon again, the West London Line is the nearest thing to it GN outers to Greater Anglia is a thought, that will be similar to the WAGN days |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jul 31, 2020 14:58:54 GMT
Thameslink might be popular from Dartford onwards (and even then I’ve heard many complain about the slow times to get to NW London) but further out Thameslink isn’t popular due to the unreasonable stopping pattern Thameslink isn’t needed along the Woolwich line, it just isn’t, it was a last minute add on and wasn’t even part of the original plans, CrossRail will be the real game changer, and I can see Thameslink being withdrawn after a few years because CrossRail will be faster than Thameslink is That maybe the case in peak times for stopping all stations but stations like Slade Green and Plumstead don’t need 8tph off peak, they’re quiet suburban stations. I don’t see why those who live further out should have a stopping service just because people In the inner suburbs don’t want to wait a few extra minutes for a train, bear in mind before the changes the was 6tph (the additional 2tph being the semi fasts) this is pretty much the average for a London station, 8tph is a bit overkill for Plumstead and Slade Green, they’re hardly Abbey Wood, Woolwich A or Charlton of which they’re either major destinations in their own right or major interchanges. If you want St. Albans you could either catch a train to London Bridge then change or when CrossRail opens go to Abbey Wood or Woolwich and get that to Farringdon and get the fast Thameslink train Restore the fast pattern And remove Thameslink would be better all round. Do you commute from Plumstead? I spent many years commuting from that station but I gave up in the end due to overcrowding and unreliability. The 8tph is not overkill. It is now possible to board a train at Plumstead in the morning peak without being crammed in Japan-style or being left at the platform. Since the service enhancement I have now abandoned Uber to North Greenwich for my long distance commutes and get a national rail service to Waterloo via London Bridge instead. Also if you have direct train links, it reduces reliance on cars for longer journeys. I can’t see Thameslink to Rainham being withdrawn in the near future until at least until the works to unblock the Croydon bottleneck are complete in 2028 (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/sussex/upgrading-the-brighton-main-line/unblocking-the-croydon-bottleneck/). That might make it possible to divert the 2tph away from Greenwich and into Croydon and beyond. But if we get rid of Thameslink at that time, the gap in capacity will still need to be plugged which in 2028 would mean SouthEastern services only going to Charing Cross or Cannon Street with a similar stopping pattern to the current Rainham service. There are thousands of new homes being built or planned across Greenwich, Woolwich, Plumstead, Thamesmead and Erith. Services into Woolwich, Greenwich, London Bridge, Waterloo and Charing Cross are popular and not directly possible by Crossrail and the demand for those destinations isn’t going to evaporate once Crossrail opens. Thameslink or no Thameslink, I hope we never return to the days of half empty trains racing past packed platforms on the Greenwich line whilst passengers get left behind after waiting for an already full service to arrive at the station. I would eventually cut the Rainham Thameslink service service to Dartford or Gravesend and ideally increase it to 4tph with Crossrail taking over the Rainham service. |
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Aug 1, 2020 21:09:51 GMT
How would you achieve this and how would you reorganise the netrwork? - The Great Northern suburban lines to TfL of course, it’s pretty much self contained - The outer suburban/interurban Great Northern services to Kings Lynn should remain independent from Thameslink and LNER, - The Maidstone to Cambridge service will never happen at this point, so Thameslink should focus operating the Brighton/Bedford, Brighton/Cambridge, Sevenoaks/St. Albans, Orpington/Welwyn, Horsham/Peterborough services plus a new service replacing the Sutton Loop/Luton service; the Sutton loop service will be diverted to Beckenham Junction - Bin off the Rainham service back to Southeastern and restore the semi fast stopping pattern, instead divert that service down to Coulsdon Town by taking over the current Southern service via Sydenham - The West London Line remains with Thameslink branded as “Thameslink 2” and promoted more, it’ll have 2 services; • the current East Croydon to Milton Keynes service • A new service Clapham Junction to Birmingham New Street - Southern and Gatwick Express will revert to being on its own I think there is some case for splitting up the huge TSGN franchise as it does cover a huge number of services. One thing which niggles me is that the GTR network map has far too much information on it and so it must be confusing for passengers to have to navigate it especially people using Gatwick who will have to look at a map with hundreds of stations on to work out where they are. I'm in favour of transferring the Hertford loop and South London metro services to TfL as this would go some way to simplifying the network with Thameslink and Southern left to focus on longer distance services out of London Bridge/Victoria as well as the south coast services, I don't really know enough about the south coast services to know whether it'd be worth consider splitting that off but I don't think its out of the question. As for Great Northern I think its lost any distinct identity now, if you gave the Hertford loop to TfL then it'd be even more pointless to retain a franchise just for with only the King's Lynn unique to it, if I were going to Cambridge I'd always pick a 387 over a 700 but nevertheless the canal tunnels were a great piece of infrastructure which provide really handy north-south links where before you'd have had to change there and I certainly wouldn't support any ideas to render them useless given how much time and money it cost to build them. On the subject of the Sutton Loop it was an interesting idea you put forward about diverting the services to Beckenham Junction, given there's a bay platform does exist there its an intriguing idea. The downside of it would be Tulse Hill having fewer Thameslink services if you were to divert the Sutton loop services. I think there seems to be a fairly broad consensus on here that the Sutton loop line is a metro service which doesn't really seem to fit in the expanded Thameslink network and should be broken off to TfL. I think having some sort of Thameslink service going down the Mole Valley line would provide some handy links. The idea I had was for 2tph which currently go round the Sutton loop to altered so they run to Guildford via Epsom which would provide a regular service between those two rather than instead of the limited Southern service currently provided, which would be withdrawn. I'm not aware of any issues with paths on the Mole Valley Line or between Leatherhead and Guildford but happy to be corrected there. I recognise limited services often need to exist but where possible I think standardisation is better. I've also read others advocating a Thameslink service going to Horsham via Epsom which I think is a really interesting idea too to be honest but I thought Guildford would have the advantage of providing new connections with minimal effect to existing ones. I think the West London Line has so much more potential than being used just for stopping services. I'm not denying the current services on the line are very useful and are crush loaded during the peaks and weekends from my experiences but I would argue the line could be used for a mix of longer distance service as well as the short ones. Its been pointed out many times on here that the Milton Keynes Central-East Croydon service is a mismatch between a stopping services south of Clapham Junction and a semi-fast one north of it. I think restoring the Brighton-Birmingham services would be a really good idea - the lack of intercity services across London is a real shame and something which Crossrail does nothing to address. The problem is really that the West London Line is so unique that its become a common freight route and I believe that there are no paths available for further services unless the line is resignalled to improve capacity, something which affects the North London Line too as I believe the reason why there are only 2tph from Clapham Junction to Stratford is due to freight paths. |
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Aug 2, 2020 18:27:27 GMT
On the Brighton mainline the joint running is perfect for when there is disruption as each TL/SN cover each other’s stops when needed
On the ECML if GN services are split with TFL taking over the GN inners then the Kings Lynn and peak Peterborough/Baldock services should be run under TL for crewing purposes. LNER taking over the Kings Lynn services will just make kings lynn & a few Cambridge drivers transfer over to LNER, GN would have to recruit more drivers as a lot of Cambridge/Kings Cross drivers sign both 387’s/700’s
More TL services via East Croydon can’t happen for ages until Norwood Junction/East Croydon redevelopments take place
In my opinion the changes should be;
2tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Wimbledon
2tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham J
2tph - St Albans - Sevenoaks via Catford
2tph - St Albans - Orpington via Catford
In time Sutton service could be increased to 4tph but will need to stay with TL so late night services can access Cricklewood/Bedford depots
When Norwood/East Croydon redeployment takes place then an all day stopping services from Kentish Town & peak Welwyn Garden services could run via East Croydon
Extra Peak hour services added should be
2tph - Luton - Beckenham Junction via Kent House
Rainham services to run via Sidcup (running fast between London Bridge - Hither Green) then all stations (TL services already have route clearance via Hither Green to both Sidcup & Grove Park lines)
All other TL services to remain the same
Also have night trains stop at either London Bridge/Elephant depending on which line is closed overnight as it’s easier to travel from both these stations at night compared to Blackfriars
I don’t think there’s extra space to stable extra trains at Three Bridges is the reason why Gillingham was chosen as a extra depot
Cambridge - Ashford services won’t run until space is vacant at Ashford depot, a lot of people who applied for Ashford depot are still in the talent pool and it’s been around 4yrs of waiting
Southeastern then could run a
London Charing Cross - Maidstone West via Lewisham & Woolwich (semi-fast)
London Cannon Street - Dartford via Greenwich (all stations)
If possible Southeastern could run peak Medway services from Blackfriars
As zubin mentioned above it would have been good if TL got the 707’s but SE need these ASAP but could transfer over in the future to TL when the new SE franchise is announced, they could order only 1 type of metro stock, the good thing about the 707’s for SE is that the 700’s are already route cleared on all Dartford lines and via Grove Park up to Sevenoaks so type training will only be needed
|
|
