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Post by greenboy on Aug 30, 2020 20:08:04 GMT
So you like the train but you don't like some of the comments it attracted? Well I'm afraid you can't have it both ways and there's been a significant amount of criticism from the LGBT community. I genuinely struggle to understand what Avanti were hoping to achieve. Yes I like the train, and no I don't like some of the comments it attracted. Your point is? What do you mean I can't have it both ways? The vast majority of comments I have seen have been positive, although of course the right-wing media such as the Daily Mail only focuses on the negative comments. There are some valid points against the livery, but there is also a lot of ignorant homophobic comments too. Why do you struggle to understand why Avanti have done this? Clearly it is mainly for publicity and marketing, but in my opinion it does also do its bit to promote inclusivity. But of course, there will always be some who are sadly against inclusivity. The livery is going to attract comment and inevitably they won't all agree with you. The Daily Mail have just shown what was posted by some of the LGBT community. And what is this mythical inclusivity that needs to be promoted? For many people their sexuality is a private matter.
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Post by N230UD on Aug 30, 2020 20:17:35 GMT
Yes I like the train, and no I don't like some of the comments it attracted. Your point is? What do you mean I can't have it both ways? The vast majority of comments I have seen have been positive, although of course the right-wing media such as the Daily Mail only focuses on the negative comments. There are some valid points against the livery, but there is also a lot of ignorant homophobic comments too. Why do you struggle to understand why Avanti have done this? Clearly it is mainly for publicity and marketing, but in my opinion it does also do its bit to promote inclusivity. But of course, there will always be some who are sadly against inclusivity. The livery is going to attract comment and inevitably they won't all agree with you. The Daily Mail have just shown what was posted by some of the LGBT community. And what is this mythical inclusivity that needs to be promoted? For many people their sexuality is a private matter. Any livery is going to attract both positive and negative comments. Shall we stop all new liveries just because some people disagree with them? The Daily Mail as expected focuses heavily on the negative comments, and only briefly mentions a couple of positive comments on the very end, which I think are a lot more common. The Daily Mail has a bias right-wing agenda, and has had homophobic articles before. Of course some people want to keep their sexuality private, that is entirely their choice and their right. But many people feel that have to keep it quiet, because a lot of prejudice still remains. Inclusivity is all about giving marginalised groups the freedom to choose. Shall I give you the definition of inclusivity? "the practice or policy of including people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of minority groups".
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Post by greenboy on Aug 30, 2020 20:33:22 GMT
The livery is going to attract comment and inevitably they won't all agree with you. The Daily Mail have just shown what was posted by some of the LGBT community. And what is this mythical inclusivity that needs to be promoted? For many people their sexuality is a private matter. Any livery is going to attract both positive negative comment. Shall we stop all new liveries just because some people disagree with them? The Daily Mail focuses heavily on the negative comments, and only briefly mentions a couple of positive comments on the very end, which I think are a lot more common. The Daily Mail has a bias right-wing agenda, and has had homophobic articles before. The article mentions alot about how it might make stright people uncomfortable - if it makes them uncomfortable about their sexuality, they clearly have a problem. Of course some people want to keep their sexuality private, that is entirely their choice and their right. But many people feel that have to keep it quiet, because a lot of prejudice still remains. Inclusivity is all about giving marginalised groups the freedom to choose. Shall I give you the definition of inclusivity? "the practice or policy of including people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of minority groups".Well you were the one objecting to some of the comments. Those who keep their sexuality private won't be marginalised but as with anything if you make it public you run the risk of getting a reaction that you don't like.
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Post by N230UD on Aug 30, 2020 20:40:47 GMT
Any livery is going to attract both positive negative comment. Shall we stop all new liveries just because some people disagree with them? The Daily Mail focuses heavily on the negative comments, and only briefly mentions a couple of positive comments on the very end, which I think are a lot more common. The Daily Mail has a bias right-wing agenda, and has had homophobic articles before. The article mentions alot about how it might make stright people uncomfortable - if it makes them uncomfortable about their sexuality, they clearly have a problem. Of course some people want to keep their sexuality private, that is entirely their choice and their right. But many people feel that have to keep it quiet, because a lot of prejudice still remains. Inclusivity is all about giving marginalised groups the freedom to choose. Shall I give you the definition of inclusivity? "the practice or policy of including people who might otherwise be excluded or marginalized, such as those who have physical or mental disabilities and members of minority groups".Well you were the one objecting to some of the comments. Those who keep their sexuality private won't be marginalised but as with anything if you make it public you run the risk of getting a reaction that you don't like. Yes I disagreed with some of the comments. I still don't understand what your point is. Its my opinion! Who is forcing anyone to disclose their sexuality? No one!
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Post by greenboy on Aug 30, 2020 20:49:42 GMT
Well you were the one objecting to some of the comments. Those who keep their sexuality private won't be marginalised but as with anything if you make it public you run the risk of getting a reaction that you don't like. Yes I disagreed with some of the comments. I still don't understand what your point is. Its my opinion! Who is forcing anyone to disclose their sexuality? No one! My point was that if a train wasn't painted into this livery you wouldn't get the comments that you don't agree with. I didn't say anybody was being forced to disclose their sexuality and many people regard it as a private matter.
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Post by N230UD on Aug 30, 2020 20:54:31 GMT
Yes I disagreed with some of the comments. I still don't understand what your point is. Its my opinion! Who is forcing anyone to disclose their sexuality? No one! My point was that if a train wasn't painted into this livery you wouldn't get the comments that you don't agree with. I didn't say anybody was being forced to disclose their sexuality and many people regard it as a private matter. Yes, but the majority of people appear to support it. Also, like I have said, any livery will attract negative comment whether it is Pride-related or not, so why should the livery not be used just because some people don't like it? If we only did things if ALL people wanted it, then there wouldn't be any progress with anything. And yes, some people regard it as a private matter. I'm not sure how that is relevant though?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2020 21:12:45 GMT
Just to be honest, the LGBTQ+ community is not as inclusive as everyone thinks. Not everyone in a group of people is going to agree with everything, and will have different opinions. I agree, there are some people in the community who are not inclusive, but not everyone is the same. On the whole though, I think the LGBT+ community is largely more inclusive and less judgemental than society as a whole. I would disagree, it’s a common misconception. The LGBT community can be just as excluding towards each other as anyone else can. It’s hidden better behind the ideals of acceptance within the community. But the fact remains that there are far more sub-sectors within gay culture than straight culture which are often far more judgemental than everyone believes.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 31, 2020 9:56:46 GMT
Not everyone in a group of people is going to agree with everything, and will have different opinions. I agree, there are some people in the community who are not inclusive, but not everyone is the same. On the whole though, I think the LGBT+ community is largely more inclusive and less judgemental than society as a whole. I would disagree, it’s a common misconception. The LGBT community can be just as excluding towards each other as anyone else can. It’s hidden better behind the ideals of acceptance within the community. But the fact remains that there are far more sub-sectors within gay culture than straight culture which are often far more judgemental than everyone believes. Yes people in the LGBT+ community can be excluding and judgemental. In that sense the community is no different to all the other myriad (and overlapping) communities that exist in our society. But how much of this is innate - or how much can be attributed to the general judgemental and excluding attitudes and behaviours that play out in our society generally? And more specifically, how much is down to the rampant homophobia that still exists in our society and inevitably gets internalised? It's hard to accept yourself if you don't feel accepted - and the less you feel self-acceptance, the less willing or able you are to accept others.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2020 12:44:45 GMT
I would disagree, it’s a common misconception. The LGBT community can be just as excluding towards each other as anyone else can. It’s hidden better behind the ideals of acceptance within the community. But the fact remains that there are far more sub-sectors within gay culture than straight culture which are often far more judgemental than everyone believes. Yes people in the LGBT+ community can be excluding and judgemental. In that sense the community is no different to all the other myriad (and overlapping) communities that exist in our society. But how much of this is innate - or how much can be attributed to the general judgemental and excluding attitudes and behaviours that play out in our society generally? And more specifically, how much is down to the rampant homophobia that still exists in our society and inevitably gets internalised? It's hard to accept yourself if you don't feel accepted - and the less you feel self-acceptance, the less willing or able you are to accept others. True, but a lot of the problems come with the stereotypes of the gay community that have existed for as long as there has been an LGBT community. The stereotypical gay man is hyper feminine and a stereotypical lesbian is hyper butch and masculine. That isn’t the case in the real world at all and I think this train plays into that stereotype which is damaging. So many young LGBT people feel uncomfortable being out because they are afraid of being stigmatised by the LGBT community itself, too fat you don’t fit in, too skinny you don’t fit in, too masculine you don’t fit in and this comes from within the communities themselves. I don’t go around parading my sexuality not because I'm hiding it but because I want a world where my sexuality is not the biggest thing about me. I have never like events like pride as I believe they further reinforce the stereotypes that exist within the community itself but yet to express this within the community is to be seen as a homophobic monster who doesn’t understand the history of the LGBT community which is untrue. I understand the history, I understand the struggle because I’ve been there, I’ve lived through it. Sorry to rant but this is hot button issue for me.
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