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Post by greg on Sept 5, 2020 14:36:11 GMT
I think there is scope for the 53 to be restored to Trafalgar Square, as the 53 doesn’t parallel CrossRail at any point apart from the fact that both serve Woolwich. The 25 is basically the eastern end of CrossRail but a bus version, I still think it could be extended to Trafalgar Square itself. I think the next three years should be a time in which the other changes can be reviewed, like the proposed butchering of the 180 for instances which is needed along the Greenwich-Charlton-Woolwich corridor to aid with the 177. Wasn’t there some controversy surrounding the 427 changes? The 427 was going to be chopped in half and cut to Southall. I don’t agree with it personally and if they were to cut the 427 then cut it to Ealing Broadway. Its a very useful interchange west of Hayes and the 607 is an express, so this leaves the 207 hanging. Also now that the E1 is being extended to Osterley, there should be stand space for a route at Ealing |
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Post by MKAY315 on Sept 5, 2020 14:43:09 GMT
In light of CrossRail being delayed to 2022/23, should the central London bus cutbacks be reversed? Re-extend the 25 to Oxford Street, and even re-extended the 53 back to Whitehall, restore the 171 to Holborn and perhaps a return to the route 48? In light of social distancing too surely it might be better to have more buses terminating in the West End rather than having customers change buses? I think with the 53 they (TFL) have been looking for every excuse in the book to cut that route back to Elephant even from the Jubilee Line extension days. So I don't they would want to reverse the decision on that route. With the 171 I feel as though they should divert it via Blackfriars bridge to the London Wall. What's everyone's thoughts on this? |
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Post by route53 on Sept 5, 2020 14:56:07 GMT
I think there is scope for the 53 to be restored to Trafalgar Square, as the 53 doesn’t parallel CrossRail at any point apart from the fact that both serve Woolwich. The 25 is basically the eastern end of CrossRail but a bus version, I still think it could be extended to Trafalgar Square itself. I think the next three years should be a time in which the other changes can be reviewed, like the proposed butchering of the 180 for instances which is needed along the Greenwich-Charlton-Woolwich corridor to aid with the 177. Wasn’t there some controversy surrounding the 427 changes? The 427 was going to be chopped in half and cut to Southall. I don’t agree with it personally and if they were to cut the 427 then cut it to Ealing Broadway. Its a very useful interchange west of Hayes and the 607 is an express, so this leaves the 207 hanging. Also now that the E1 is being extended to Osterley, there should be stand space for a route at Ealing Yikes that does sound terrible! I’m not familiar with buses over in West London but I’m familiar enough with the 207/472/607 Uxbridge Road bus routes to know that all cutting the 427 at Southall will do is crowd the 207/607, that’s not good at all, Ealing Broadway is a much better choice to cut the 427 at |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 14:57:15 GMT
I feel like Oxford Circus to Ilford was quite a stretch even then, so maybe for the 25’s situation, a new route from Mile End to Marble Arch via the old 25 could be introduced? The 53, while not linked to Crossrail, should’ve never been cutback until the line opened to soften the blow of the cut This is more of similar instead of introducing another route, you could extend the 86 to Aldgate and have the 25 restructured between Stratford and Notting Hill Gate? (Supporting the 94 between Oxford Circus and Notting Hill and the Central Line). Aldgate-Romford might be extremely long but I’m not too much of a local to know the traffic normality down there. Aldgate to Romford is very long, its 90 mins most of the time Romford to Canning Town. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 5, 2020 15:04:50 GMT
I think there is scope for the 53 to be restored to Trafalgar Square, as the 53 doesn’t parallel CrossRail at any point apart from the fact that both serve Woolwich. The 25 is basically the eastern end of CrossRail but a bus version, I still think it could be extended to Trafalgar Square itself. I think the next three years should be a time in which the other changes can be reviewed, like the proposed butchering of the 180 for instances which is needed along the Greenwich-Charlton-Woolwich corridor to aid with the 177. Wasn’t there some controversy surrounding the 427 changes? The 53 change had nothing to do with Crossrail, TfL decided rightly or wrongly that it was no longer needed in Whitehall. It's been over a year now and I've not seen any great protests about it and there is clearly no liklihood of it being reinstated. If anything it's more likely to be cut further to Elephant & Castle. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2020 17:48:39 GMT
I feel like Oxford Circus to Ilford was quite a stretch even then, so maybe for the 25’s situation, a new route from Mile End to Marble Arch via the old 25 could be introduced? Look at the times in 1968! Imagine what they'd be like nowadays? Taken from Ian Armstrongs web page View AttachmentDecided to do a quick comparison between that timetable and one from today (if anyone has the timetable just before it's cutback, please link it) In 1968, Oxford Circus to Ilford High Road, Green Lanes (a little further ahead than it's current Ilford terminus but whatever  ) was timed at at 1h 7 mins when looking at the 16:30 journey and that's not even the full route from either end - today, if I look at the 16:29 journey from Holborn Viaduct to Ilford, Hainault Street, it takes 1h 43 mins and if I look at a current day 55 timetable just for the Oxford Circus to Holborn section, it takes 20 minutes during that time of day so your are looking at nearly 2h for the 25's Oxford Circus to Ilford routing before the cutback |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2020 17:52:37 GMT
I think there is scope for the 53 to be restored to Trafalgar Square, as the 53 doesn’t parallel CrossRail at any point apart from the fact that both serve Woolwich. The 25 is basically the eastern end of CrossRail but a bus version, I still think it could be extended to Trafalgar Square itself. I think the next three years should be a time in which the other changes can be reviewed, like the proposed butchering of the 180 for instances which is needed along the Greenwich-Charlton-Woolwich corridor to aid with the 177. Wasn’t there some controversy surrounding the 427 changes? The 53 change had nothing to do with Crossrail, TfL decided rightly or wrongly that it was no longer needed in Whitehall. It's been over a year now and I've not seen any great protests about it and there is clearly no liklihood of it being reinstated. If anything it's more likely to be cut further to Elephant & Castle. There is no stand space at Elephant so the 53 couldn't be cut back without something moving out. There has been campaigns centred around access to St Thomas's Hospital so whilst you may not have seen any, doesn't mean there haven't been any and given TfL did have a policy of prioritising hospital links, it's quite ironic that an important one for the South East has been made worse. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 5, 2020 17:54:23 GMT
Really it is a PD to Elephant route with the stand space keeping it at Lambeth North. As we know that was the plan in 1999 for the route.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2020 17:55:51 GMT
I think there is scope for the 53 to be restored to Trafalgar Square, as the 53 doesn’t parallel CrossRail at any point apart from the fact that both serve Woolwich. The 25 is basically the eastern end of CrossRail but a bus version, I still think it could be extended to Trafalgar Square itself. I think the next three years should be a time in which the other changes can be reviewed, like the proposed butchering of the 180 for instances which is needed along the Greenwich-Charlton-Woolwich corridor to aid with the 177. Wasn’t there some controversy surrounding the 427 changes? The 53 wasn't cutback as part of Crossrail changes, it was cut back as part of the Central London changes which are entirely separate even though I disagreed with them strongly. The 53 has no scope at Trafalgar Square and be honest, I wouldn't send it back unless a massive undertaking of severely reducing congestion on London's roads took place and we look further away than ever before from that happening. It should at least be re-routed to Lambeth Palace so it actually serves St. Thomas's Hospital where many people from the South East are referred to. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 5, 2020 17:58:53 GMT
I feel like Oxford Circus to Ilford was quite a stretch even then, so maybe for the 25’s situation, a new route from Mile End to Marble Arch via the old 25 could be introduced? The 53, while not linked to Crossrail, should’ve never been cutback until the line opened to soften the blow of the cut This is more of similar instead of introducing another route, you could extend the 86 to Aldgate and have the 25 restructured between Stratford and Notting Hill Gate? (Supporting the 94 between Oxford Circus and Notting Hill and the Central Line). Aldgate-Romford might be extremely long but I’m not too much of a local to know the traffic normality down there. Sadly it's more likely the 94 would be cut to Marble Arch rather then receiving support between Oxford Circus and NHG. |
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Post by towertransit70 on Sept 5, 2020 18:10:08 GMT
I feel like Oxford Circus to Ilford was quite a stretch even then, so maybe for the 25’s situation, a new route from Mile End to Marble Arch via the old 25 could be introduced? Look at the times in 1968! Imagine what they'd be like nowadays? Taken from Ian Armstrongs web page Those times had great diverse routes where traffic conditions allowed them to operate reliably. Now, drivers and passengers face constant battles with traffic lights, bus lanes being used by other vehicles, increased usage of cars and bus lanes/normal lane being closed off for cycle works. I mean come on!! I think that the 25 may have been lucky to retain such a long route for such a long time, because it was longer than 2 hours at peak hours. And I think with similar frequencies to the 25, making another route could be the key to make travelling more accepted, because no-one, even drivers, wants to face traffic constantly and no-one wants a bus to terminate early! But what a timetable. Wouldn't it be great if we had those running times for long routes today, but it's near to impossible. But thanks for sharing it. I could just dream all day of the "fantasy" routes we could think off!  |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 5, 2020 18:29:21 GMT
I was amazed the 25 wasnt changed on renewal in 2004 or even earlier in late 2002/2003 with something similar to the 10, 36, 74, 133 etc. Even as far back as 1999 First proposed to run it in sections.
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Post by greg on Sept 5, 2020 18:53:04 GMT
This is more of similar instead of introducing another route, you could extend the 86 to Aldgate and have the 25 restructured between Stratford and Notting Hill Gate? (Supporting the 94 between Oxford Circus and Notting Hill and the Central Line). Aldgate-Romford might be extremely long but I’m not too much of a local to know the traffic normality down there. Sadly it's more likely the 94 would be cut to Marble Arch rather then receiving support between Oxford Circus and NHG. I absolutely hope not the 94 carries tons and is the only route to Bayswater Road from Oxford Circus and Piccadilly. These changes TFL have been making are crazy, and aren’t they being lifted anyway now Oxford Street will remain unchanged? The only Crossrail station the 94 will be serving is Bond Street. |
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Post by rift on Sept 5, 2020 19:01:13 GMT
I was amazed the 25 wasnt changed on renewal in 2004 or even earlier in late 2002/2003 with something similar to the 10, 36, 74, 133 etc. Even as far back as 1999 First proposed to run it in sections. If it ran in sections, it would’ve almost certainly had a fate similar to the 207, eventually splitting into 2 routes |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 5, 2020 19:04:24 GMT
Or the Ilford section given over to other local routes ie the 369 extended to Stratford.
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) was timed at at 1h 7 mins when looking at the 16:30 journey and that's not even the full route from either end - today, if I look at the 16:29 journey from Holborn Viaduct to Ilford, Hainault Street, it takes 1h 43 mins and if I look at a current day 55 timetable just for the Oxford Circus to Holborn section, it takes 20 minutes during that time of day so your are looking at nearly 2h for the 25's Oxford Circus to Ilford routing before the cutback
