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Post by joefrombow on Sept 21, 2020 4:50:32 GMT
With all this "Social Distancing" going on and not looking likely to be going anywhere anytime soon for the next year at least on top of all the new Low traffic neighborhood schemes being introduced everywhere in London trying to stop car usage what do you think about Tri-Axles being introduced if there was ever a time surely it would be now ?
Also what routes would you introduce them on ? and I know we have tried them once before but could Bendy Buses make a comeback ? Are they ideal for distancing ? and if so what routes do you think they could be suited too in 2020 as so much has changed since they were last in the roads back in 2011 ?
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Post by busman on Sept 21, 2020 8:59:00 GMT
With all this "Social Distancing" going on and not looking likely to be going anywhere anytime soon for the next year at least on top of all the new Low traffic neighborhood schemes being introduced everywhere in London trying to stop car usage what do you think about Tri-Axles being introduced if there was ever a time surely it would be now ? Also what routes would you introduce them on ? and I know we have tried them once before but could Bendy Buses make a comeback ? Are they ideal for distancing ? and if so what routes do you think they could be suited too in 2020 as so much has changed since they were last in the roads back in 2011 ? Bendy buses have too much political baggage, not least the perception that they are more dangerous for cyclists. As for tri-axle deckers, does anyone know the outcome of the trial of the tri-axle on route 12? The vehicle was confusingly classed as TA1 and from LVF it looks like it last ran on 13th March. Perhaps one of our friends in the know from GAL can provide some insight. Although in theory social distancing would be easier on these vehicles and could lead to efficiencies through PVR reductions, I can’t see tri-axle deckers being ordered anytime soon for a number of reasons. Firstly the social distancing measures probably won’t even be in place by the time any new vehicles arrive if a future order was placed. Secondly, hybrids are on their way out. New orders are likely to be zero emission electric or fuel cell...I’m not even sure if a zero emission tri-axle decker is even on the market, let alone in mass production. Thirdly, these vehicles are limited on what routes they go on. As TfL and operators would have learnt through the LT experience, this causes a headache when looking to utilise vehicles on other routes. Is it worth getting a batch of unique vehicles for the 1-2 routes that may benefit or is it more economical to provide extra capacity using conventional vehicles? The enthusiast in me would love to see tri-axles on TfL routes, but I can’t see it happening again any time soon. In saying that, I would gladly like to be proven wrong!
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Post by M1104 on Sept 21, 2020 10:14:26 GMT
With all this "Social Distancing" going on and not looking likely to be going anywhere anytime soon for the next year at least on top of all the new Low traffic neighborhood schemes being introduced everywhere in London trying to stop car usage what do you think about Tri-Axles being introduced if there was ever a time surely it would be now ? Also what routes would you introduce them on ? and I know we have tried them once before but could Bendy Buses make a comeback ? Are they ideal for distancing ? and if so what routes do you think they could be suited too in 2020 as so much has changed since they were last in the roads back in 2011 ? Bendybuses would encourage more overcrowding in relation to punters trying to get free rides. Tri-axles should've ideally been introduced as direct replacement to the bendies. I think a more immediate solution in gaining more capacity would be to have frequency increases where it's needed plus conversions of as many single deck routes as possible to double deckers.
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Post by galwhv69 on Sept 21, 2020 11:22:05 GMT
With all this "Social Distancing" going on and not looking likely to be going anywhere anytime soon for the next year at least on top of all the new Low traffic neighborhood schemes being introduced everywhere in London trying to stop car usage what do you think about Tri-Axles being introduced if there was ever a time surely it would be now ? Also what routes would you introduce them on ? and I know we have tried them once before but could Bendy Buses make a comeback ? Are they ideal for distancing ? and if so what routes do you think they could be suited too in 2020 as so much has changed since they were last in the roads back in 2011 ? Bendy buses have too much political baggage, not least the perception that they are more dangerous for cyclists. As for tri-axle deckers, does anyone know how the trial went of the tri-axle on route 12? The vehicle was confusingly classed as TA1 and from LVF it looks like it last ran on 13th March. Perhaps one of our friends in the know from GAL can provide some insight. Although in theory social distancing would be better easier on these vehicles and could lead to efficiencies through PVR reductions, I can’t see tri-axle deckers being ordered anytime soon for a number of reasons. Firstly the social distancing measures probably won’t even be in place by the time any new vehicles arrive if a future order was placed. Secondly, hybrids are on their way out. New orders are likely to be zero emission electric or fuel cell...I’m not even sure if a zero emission tri-axle decker is even on the market, let alone in mass production. Thirdly, these vehicles are limited on what routes they go on. As TfL and operators would have learnt through the LT experience, this causes a headache when looking to utilise vehicles on other routes. Is it worth getting a batch of unique vehicles for the 1-2 routes that may benefit or is it more economical to provide extra capacity using conventional vehicles? The enthusiast in me would love to see tri-axles on TfL routes, but I can’t see it happening again any time soon. In saying that, I would gladly like to be proven wrong! ADL already produce a Tri Axle E500MMC EV however it is currently only for North America
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 21, 2020 11:49:07 GMT
With all this "Social Distancing" going on and not looking likely to be going anywhere anytime soon for the next year at least on top of all the new Low traffic neighborhood schemes being introduced everywhere in London trying to stop car usage what do you think about Tri-Axles being introduced if there was ever a time surely it would be now ? Also what routes would you introduce them on ? and I know we have tried them once before but could Bendy Buses make a comeback ? Are they ideal for distancing ? and if so what routes do you think they could be suited too in 2020 as so much has changed since they were last in the roads back in 2011 ? Bendybuses would encourage more overcrowding in relation to punters trying to get free rides. Tri-axles should've ideally been introduced as direct replacement to the bendies. I think a more immediate solution in gaining more capacity would be to have frequency increases where it's needed plus conversions of as many single deck routes as possible to double deckers. I don't see how bendybuses encourages people to get free rides. Surely that was down to open boarding ... as can be seen my the way it transferred to LTs. Bendybuses with a sensible door configuration and fare paying arrangements should be OK. Think blaming the buses is unfair, when it should be aimed at stupid TfL policy.
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Post by M1104 on Sept 21, 2020 14:59:38 GMT
Bendybuses would encourage more overcrowding in relation to punters trying to get free rides. Tri-axles should've ideally been introduced as direct replacement to the bendies. I think a more immediate solution in gaining more capacity would be to have frequency increases where it's needed plus conversions of as many single deck routes as possible to double deckers. I don't see how bendybuses encourages people to get free rides. Surely that was down to open boarding ... as can be seen my the way it transferred to LTs. Bendybuses with a sensible door configuration and fare paying arrangements should be OK. Think blaming the buses is unfair, when it should be aimed at stupid TfL policy. The end result was that the bendies were the tools of "stupid TfL policy" which many punters will remember and given half the chance many would likely fare evade on again. Any sensible door configuration for the bendies (whatever that would entail) could be incorporated onto existing LTs as the present 'front door entry only' system doesn't work too well in interchange places like Brixton.
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Post by LJ17THF on Sept 21, 2020 16:37:37 GMT
IF bendies were to come back, I presume most manufacturers would create an articulated bus, I'm looking at you, ADL and Optare . I could see them going back on their original routes plus a few more, 109, 337, 468, 476 all seem like good extra candidates. Tri-Axles seem more suited for London use though, they can fit on a lot more routes, but TfL aren't fans of them, only just realising their benefit two years ago, once electrics were on the rise . Someone said ADL have an E500EV? Never even knew that, but if TfL adjust their specification to accommodate electric tri-axles, I know for a fact that ADL will make a RHD version for the UK and London, they have always got lots of sales from London, and they sure wouldn't like Optare winning in that market .
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Post by greg on Sept 21, 2020 22:59:12 GMT
IF bendies were to come back, I presume most manufacturers would create an articulated bus, I'm looking at you, ADL and Optare . I could see them going back on their original routes plus a few more, 109, 337, 468, 476 all seem like good extra candidates. Tri-Axles seem more suited for London use though, they can fit on a lot more routes, but TfL aren't fans of them, only just realising their benefit two years ago, once electrics were on the rise . Someone said ADL have an E500EV? Never even knew that, but if TfL adjust their specification to accommodate electric tri-axles, I know for a fact that ADL will make a RHD version for the UK and London, they have always got lots of sales from London, and they sure wouldn't like Optare winning in that market . The 476?? We must see a different 476, I would certainly think they’d go back onto the 73, the 476 is much more quieter and more relaxed
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Post by vjaska on Sept 21, 2020 23:29:58 GMT
IF bendies were to come back, I presume most manufacturers would create an articulated bus, I'm looking at you, ADL and Optare . I could see them going back on their original routes plus a few more, 109, 337, 468, 476 all seem like good extra candidates. Tri-Axles seem more suited for London use though, they can fit on a lot more routes, but TfL aren't fans of them, only just realising their benefit two years ago, once electrics were on the rise . Someone said ADL have an E500EV? Never even knew that, but if TfL adjust their specification to accommodate electric tri-axles, I know for a fact that ADL will make a RHD version for the UK and London, they have always got lots of sales from London, and they sure wouldn't like Optare winning in that market . I've always been of the belief that the Artics best use is on short busy routes like the 507 & 521 where they worked very well, on shuttles between two specific points or on limited stopping routes. On a regular route, I didn't find them to be particularly helpful at all and I certainly wouldn't suggest the 109, 337 or 468 as candidates - I'd argue for LWB deckers for the 109 & 468 but not for the 337 which manages fine with SWB ones.
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Post by M1104 on Sept 22, 2020 8:50:14 GMT
IF bendies were to come back, I presume most manufacturers would create an articulated bus, I'm looking at you, ADL and Optare . I could see them going back on their original routes plus a few more, 109, 337, 468, 476 all seem like good extra candidates. Tri-Axles seem more suited for London use though, they can fit on a lot more routes, but TfL aren't fans of them, only just realising their benefit two years ago, once electrics were on the rise . Someone said ADL have an E500EV? Never even knew that, but if TfL adjust their specification to accommodate electric tri-axles, I know for a fact that ADL will make a RHD version for the UK and London, they have always got lots of sales from London, and they sure wouldn't like Optare winning in that market . I've always been of the belief that the Artics best use is on short busy routes like the 507 & 521 where they worked very well, on shuttles between two specific points or on limited stopping routes. On a regular route, I didn't find them to be particularly helpful at all and I certainly wouldn't suggest the 109, 337 or 468 as candidates - I'd argue for LWB deckers for the 109 & 468 but not for the 337 which manages fine with SWB ones. The 507 and 521 certainly should've remained bendybuses-operated, ideally with the 57 reg batch that was relatively short lived on the 453
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Post by bus12451 on Sept 22, 2020 9:06:22 GMT
Realistically we could only see tri-axles on high frequency routes that used to have bendy buses, plus other busy routes such as the 36 and 109. Then have the frequencies of these routes reduced. As mentioned, a RHD version of the E500EV could be produced, or an electric E400XLB. As for the bendies (in London), I believe these are completely dead in the water. They may have been an interesting lot but they were a disaster in London, LTs were inadequate replacements. They have worked well in other places though, such as the Las Vegas strip and I believe First York still have some old articulated Citaros. (haven't been there in 3 years so not sure if they still exist ) Also quick question: anyone know of the whereabouts of TA1? Is it still at Q, or back with Ensign maybe?
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Post by greenboy on Sept 22, 2020 9:47:43 GMT
I think bendybuses were a disaster in London because of the way TfL deployed them. I think they are best kept out of Central London but there may be some scope for them elsewhere, the 108 for example subject to a clearance test although it seems unlikely as does any likelihood of tri axle double deckers.
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Post by 10121ddo on Sept 22, 2020 13:08:41 GMT
I think bendybuses were a disaster in London because of the way TfL deployed them. I think they are best kept out of Central London but there may be some scope for them elsewhere, the 108 for example subject to a clearance test although it seems unlikely as does any likelihood of tri axle double deckers. Heading through Tower Hamlets with an artic will be an amusing but scary sight
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 22, 2020 15:14:36 GMT
I think bendybuses were a disaster in London because of the way TfL deployed them. I think they are best kept out of Central London but there may be some scope for them elsewhere, the 108 for example subject to a clearance test although it seems unlikely as does any likelihood of tri axle double deckers. I don't think an Artic would be able to turn from Bow Road onto Campbell road. I'm a bit surprised even the Citaros manage to do it.
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Post by joefrombow on Sept 22, 2020 16:18:49 GMT
I think bendybuses were a disaster in London because of the way TfL deployed them. I think they are best kept out of Central London but there may be some scope for them elsewhere, the 108 for example subject to a clearance test although it seems unlikely as does any likelihood of tri axle double deckers. I don't think an Artic would be able to turn from Bow Road onto Campbell road. I'm a bit surprised even the Citaros manage to do it. It can be done , back in the olden days 25's were diverted that way but ultimately would cause issues if it was a everyday thing however I think the 108 would be an ideal route for them .
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