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Post by SILENCED on Sept 30, 2020 9:41:52 GMT
Tri-Axles Routes should be tested on 34 29 25 86 149 5 207 18 109 243 123 607. They busy routes The problem that you get with Tri axles is that the dwell times at stops increase quite a bit, we have 98 seaters at Ensignbus and loading and unloading takes a while, yes they only have 1 door but even with a second door it would still take a while, Bendy buses solved this problem as 3 doors are quicker and no stairs to come down, they are ideal for routes where people are doing short journeys hence why they are used on Uni/airport routes Surely dwell time will be the same if the same number of people are getting on and off through two doors? What is the factor that increases dwell time?
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Post by snowman on Sept 30, 2020 9:48:59 GMT
The problem that you get with Tri axles is that the dwell times at stops increase quite a bit, we have 98 seaters at Ensignbus and loading and unloading takes a while, yes they only have 1 door but even with a second door it would still take a while, Bendy buses solved this problem as 3 doors are quicker and no stairs to come down, they are ideal for routes where people are doing short journeys hence why they are used on Uni/airport routes Surely dwell time will be the same if the same number of people are getting on and off through two doors? What is the factor that increases dwell time? Staircase People will walk down a bus (especially a wide aisle one with 2+1 seating) much faster than they go up or down stairs. At busy stops, passengers can file onto bus, then queue for stairs. Obviously a long single deck (even with just one door) doesn't get staircase delays
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 30, 2020 9:54:22 GMT
Surely dwell time will be the same if the same number of people are getting on and off through two doors? What is the factor that increases dwell time? Staircase People will walk down a bus (especially a wide aisle one with 2+1 seating) much faster than they go up or down stairs. At busy stops, passengers can file onto bus, then queue for stairs. Obviously a long single deck (even with just one door) doesn't get staircase delays Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral.
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Post by VPL630 on Sept 30, 2020 11:11:39 GMT
Staircase People will walk down a bus (especially a wide aisle one with 2+1 seating) much faster than they go up or down stairs. At busy stops, passengers can file onto bus, then queue for stairs. Obviously a long single deck (even with just one door) doesn't get staircase delays Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral. Because theoretically you can fit more people on a Tri axle but it takes longer to get down from upstairs because of door positions and the fact the bus is longer and with more people on it. It can be tedious at times on a normal double deck when you are doing a school run for example on a 96 and you get to BX the time taken to unload and then reload at the clock tower, this would only be made worse with more passengers
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 30, 2020 11:33:36 GMT
Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral. Because theoretically you can fit more people on a Tri axle but it takes longer to get down from upstairs because of door positions and the fact the bus is longer and with more people on it. It can be tedious at times on a normal double deck when you are doing a school run for example on a 96 and you get to BX the time taken to unload and then reload at the clock tower, this would only be made worse with more passengers What's the difference in capacity between the tri-axle and two axle Ensign deckers? Sure passenger don't mind stopping at bus stops to let people on and off ... it is the sitting at bus stops and doing nothing that frustrates.
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Post by snowman on Sept 30, 2020 12:16:08 GMT
Staircase People will walk down a bus (especially a wide aisle one with 2+1 seating) much faster than they go up or down stairs. At busy stops, passengers can file onto bus, then queue for stairs. Obviously a long single deck (even with just one door) doesn't get staircase delays Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral. It is simply that tri-axles have nearer 60 seats upstairs, each person using stairs can take 2-3 times as long to move on the stairs when descending (which is why you get queues to go down stairs) There is also evidence that about 30% of passengers can’t (or choose not to) go upstairs and it causes congestion if the area between stairs and doors get busy (and TfL specify wheelchair space opposite doors, not bottom of the stairs like some other Operators). Some Operators ban standing ahead of exit door for that reason. There is no point having 60 seats upstairs If another 25 passengers block staircase as they won’t go upstairs
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 30, 2020 12:23:47 GMT
Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral. It is simply that tri-axles have nearer 60 seats upstairs, each person using stairs can take 2-3 times as long to move on the stairs when descending (which is why you get queues to go down stairs) There is also evidence that about 30% of passengers can’t (or choose not to) go upstairs and it causes congestion if the area between stairs and doors get busy (and TfL specify wheelchair space opposite doors, not bottom of the stairs like some other Operators). Some Operators ban standing ahead of exit door for that reason. There is no point having 60 seats upstairs If another 25 passengers block staircase as they won’t go upstairs One really good way to combat this is having downstairs only staircases like what is the cast in Singapore (?). You'll need to have two staircases but we already have 1000 buses I London that have those so they won't be anything new. However this will mean that the downstairs only staircase will lead to the exit door and you won't be able to access the lower deck once you go upstairs.
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 30, 2020 12:38:48 GMT
Ok, can you expand please, how does the effect of a staircase on a triaxle differ from a standard decker? As I can see it, there will probably only be one or two stops per route were a notable increased number was of passengers will either board or alight. Let's be honest, triaxles would replace standard DDs in UK rather than single deckers. With the amount of regulation that goes on in the London bus industry, would imagine the total dwell time on a journey would be neutral. It is simply that tri-axles have nearer 60 seats upstairs, each person using stairs can take 2-3 times as long to move on the stairs when descending (which is why you get queues to go down stairs) There is also evidence that about 30% of passengers can’t (or choose not to) go upstairs and it causes congestion if the area between stairs and doors get busy (and TfL specify wheelchair space opposite doors, not bottom of the stairs like some other Operators). Some Operators ban standing ahead of exit door for that reason. There is no point having 60 seats upstairs If another 25 passengers block staircase as they won’t go upstairs But won't these 25 passengers still be on a standard decker? The blocking of downstairs passenger would appear to be the same if staircases and doors are kept in the same position relative to the front of the vehicle. Even though there is more space behind the door, it will be exactly same space between stairs and door, and hence passengers. Sorry, can't see any theory to support this statement. The blocking should be worse on a shorter vehicle.
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Post by snowman on Sept 30, 2020 13:20:45 GMT
It is simply that tri-axles have nearer 60 seats upstairs, each person using stairs can take 2-3 times as long to move on the stairs when descending (which is why you get queues to go down stairs) There is also evidence that about 30% of passengers can’t (or choose not to) go upstairs and it causes congestion if the area between stairs and doors get busy (and TfL specify wheelchair space opposite doors, not bottom of the stairs like some other Operators). Some Operators ban standing ahead of exit door for that reason. There is no point having 60 seats upstairs If another 25 passengers block staircase as they won’t go upstairs But won't these 25 passengers still be on a standard decker? The blocking of downstairs passenger would appear to be the same if staircases and doors are kept in the same position relative to the front of the vehicle. Even though there is more space behind the door, it will be exactly same space between stairs and door, and hence passengers. Sorry, can't see any theory to support this statement. The blocking should be worse on a shorter vehicle. Its all to do with proportions (ratio of upstairs and downstairs seats) and downstairs seats, using a Lothian tri-axle as example seating is H61/39 (dual door) so have 39% of seats downstairs, and these are likely to fill before upstairs is completely full, whereas London's most recent buses (Arriva HTs) are H41/23D (under 36% downstairs). if you exclude the marked priority seats only about 20% of seats are downstairs in London. Also if you provide 16 more seats downstairs, a fair number of that 25 standing will choose to sit down rather than stand, so get indirect effect of many less people standing and partly blocking gangways which speeds up the boarding. There is a phycology factor, but I can't remember the details, downstairs seats are seen as easy to get to and use, and standing by empty seat is perceived as wrong so more choose to sit.
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abz91
Conductor
Posts: 128
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Post by abz91 on Sept 30, 2020 15:41:40 GMT
Double bendy bus by watching the driver struggle imagine UK drivers be they Chaos in London Streets lol 😂
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Post by ronnie on Sept 30, 2020 20:57:10 GMT
Double bendy bus by watching the driver struggle imagine UK drivers be they Chaos in London Streets lol 😂 This would be carnage.... I am trying to imagine a 25 from ilford to Oxford Circus with this bus!
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Post by John tuthill on Sept 30, 2020 21:16:03 GMT
Double bendy bus by watching the driver struggle imagine UK drivers be they Chaos in London Streets lol 😂 This would be carnage.... I am trying to imagine a 25 from ilford to Oxford Circus with this bus! If that was stuck in traffic, you could walk from Ilford to OX inside it!
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