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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 6:59:45 GMT
Frankly they should just withdraw the 414 and increase the PVR on the 14 to make up the difference. Presumably though it is cheaper this way to reduce and negotiate a new tender on a much cheaper rate than increase the premium rates on the 14. Route 414 will provide a handful of direct links not available on routes 14 or 74. I guess that having both routes 14 & 414 rather than just route 14 with a larger allocation can mean a bit more competition. An enhanced route 14 would be even harder for a rival operator to gain. The 414 serves no direct links not found on either the 14 or 74, really it’s only purpose is to shadow the 14 and slop up any additional passengers which it doesn’t really do because the 14 is very well run. Besides given how low passenger numbers have been in recent years, enough to drop 7 buses from the 14 without cutting the 414 I think withdrawing the 414 and adding 3 buses back to 14 to maintain it would be acceptable. The hopper fare can take care of anyone changing at Hyde Park Corner to want to go towards Marble Arch.
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Post by galwhv69 on Oct 10, 2020 7:08:28 GMT
Route 414 - Cut back to Marble Arch but extended to Brixton From Putney Bridge Route 220/270 to Wandsworth then 37 to Brixton Provides more capacity along 220/270 & 37 sections Could a bus stand be made on Rushcroft Road and then exiting via Electric Lane? (A few parking spaces would have to be removed though)
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Post by LJ17THF on Oct 10, 2020 9:15:51 GMT
Route 414 - Cut back to Marble Arch but extended to Brixton From Putney Bridge Route 220/270 to Wandsworth then 37 to Brixton Provides more capacity along 220/270 & 37 sections Could a bus stand be made on Rushcroft Road and then exiting via Electric Lane? (A few parking spaces would have to be removed though) I think that might make the route too long, perhaps instead of going to Marble Arch, it could go to Brixton instead (from Putney), but I think it would duplicate the 2 too much (no pun intended ), so perhaps Elephant and Castle could be a better option via the 2 to Vauxhall from Victoria, and then to Elephant and Castle via the 196?
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Post by vjaska on Oct 10, 2020 10:18:42 GMT
Route 414 - Cut back to Marble Arch but extended to Brixton From Putney Bridge Route 220/270 to Wandsworth then 37 to Brixton Provides more capacity along 220/270 & 37 sections Could a bus stand be made on Rushcroft Road and then exiting via Electric Lane? (A few parking spaces would have to be removed though) I think that might make the route too long, perhaps instead of going to Marble Arch, it could go to Brixton instead (from Putney), but I think it would duplicate the 2 too much (no pun intended ), so perhaps Elephant and Castle could be a better option via the 2 to Vauxhall from Victoria, and then to Elephant and Castle via the 196? That would overbus Kennington Lane as the 196 is enough for that section. galwhv69 the turn from Electric Lane onto Coldharbour Lane is too tight not to mention even getting onto Coldharbour Lane at busy times due to how busy it gets so a non starter.
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Post by rift on Oct 10, 2020 16:31:22 GMT
My suspicion is that the 414 is facing the same path to extinction as the C2. You could easily imagine it being withdrawn in the medium term and replaced by a diversion of the 23 to Putney rather than Hammersmith, with marginal increases on the 9 and 27 in replacement. The 87 or 91 might then also disappear from the Strand to avoid 'overbussing' this section, with possibly fewer 14s along Piccadilly too. Is the 23 extension to Wembley still being considered? If so then combined with a Putney extension, it would be rather long
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 10, 2020 16:59:25 GMT
The 23 Wembley extension was formally cancelled when the 10/23 change went ahead. It would be interested if they revisit the 452 proposal as it hasn't served Kensal Rise for a little while now and there were complaints in the past about the number of routes along Chamberlayne Road.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 10, 2020 17:12:29 GMT
The 23 Wembley extension was formally cancelled when the 10/23 change went ahead. It would be interested if they revisit the 452 proposal as it hasn't served Kensal Rise for a little while now and there were complaints in the past about the number of routes along Chamberlayne Road. And what happens to the current 23 given you surely won't have two bus routes between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's & Westbourne Park and the old 23 proposal scrapped.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 10, 2020 17:34:45 GMT
That's the question. The unserved 452 section is coping ok without it and I doubt the locals will campaign for it to return. As said thou the 23 and 452 are not needed either between Sainsburys and X so a cut back to NHG could be on the cards one day.
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Post by greg on Oct 10, 2020 18:42:25 GMT
The stand where the 88 used to stand in Camden Town is available perhaps it cold go there. The problem with that could be if the Morrisons where the 27 stands is knocked down then the 27 may need to stand at Camden Gardens instead. Glad u mentioned this the gas station is now demolished they are building the new store at the site of the previous gas station but much bigger by being on the roads aswell. The hill to the current Morrisons is now two way so the Morrisons stand closure will only be temporary while the homes are built and lastly the Camden Gardens stand is noted as ‘Camden Town’ and not Chalk Farm so it would be cut back, the Hawley Road stand is free however though but is also blinded as Camden Town.
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Post by greg on Oct 10, 2020 18:46:36 GMT
Not good for Abellio, losing the 414 and C2. I do think the 414 will be withdrawn sooner because now it is just a planned cut but it really is a route that is completely duplicated but in the 414’s case the routes it follows are fine without it (6, 14).
I would of thought they could of did something with the 6, 36 and 414 like rerouting the 6 via Harrow Road and Queen’s Park (36 routing) and have the 36 cut back to Paddington and have the 414 extended to Queen’s Park. Solves the 6 issues and could bring more links to Harrow Road to Piccadilly and Whitehall 414 runs alone without the 6 and more busier And the 36 can be shorterned and not an overbussed western section
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 18:48:03 GMT
The problem with that could be if the Morrisons where the 27 stands is knocked down then the 27 may need to stand at Camden Gardens instead. Glad u mentioned this the gas station is now demolished they are building the new store at the site of the previous gas station but much bigger by being on the roads aswell. The hill to the current Morrisons is now two way so the Morrisons stand closure will only be temporary while the homes are built and lastly the Camden Gardens stand is noted as ‘Camden Town’ and not Chalk Farm so it would be cut back, the Hawley Road stand is free however though but is also blinded as Camden Town. But the area between the road, petrol station and rail line isn’t that large so I’m unsure how they will get a larger supermarket there. Admittedly I haven’t seen the plans in detail but I would have thought the supermarket would be below the new blocks on the site of the existing car park.
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Post by greg on Oct 10, 2020 18:52:46 GMT
Glad u mentioned this the gas station is now demolished they are building the new store at the site of the previous gas station but much bigger by being on the roads aswell. The hill to the current Morrisons is now two way so the Morrisons stand closure will only be temporary while the homes are built and lastly the Camden Gardens stand is noted as ‘Camden Town’ and not Chalk Farm so it would be cut back, the Hawley Road stand is free however though but is also blinded as Camden Town. But the area between the road, petrol station and rail line isn’t that large so I’m unsure how they will get a larger supermarket there. Admittedly I haven’t seen the plans in detail but I would have thought the supermarket would be below the new blocks on the site of the existing car park. I guess it manages the LTs do fine but the road has been widened a little bit and thats what I thought was going to happen too. But when you go past Chalk Farm Road its only been a month and is almost already built, its not big but like is very wide. Idk how to explain. Like the shape of a rectangle. But I had a theory that this store they have built so effortlessly and quickly will probably the temporary Morrisons while they make the new one on the hill along with the homes, they will probably reopen the stand at the gas station because the actual building does not go as far as that little road, and this would probably be restricted to buses only and no cars.
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Post by rif153 on Oct 10, 2020 19:06:43 GMT
Not good for Abellio, losing the 414 and C2. I was just thinking Abellio have seen quite a few of their routes cut alongside the ones you mention there's also the 45 cut back to Elephant and the 427's planned cut back to Southall.
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Post by LJ17THF on Oct 10, 2020 19:44:38 GMT
Not good for Abellio, losing the 414 and C2. I was just thinking Abellio have seen quite a few of their routes cut alongside the ones you mention there's also the 45 cut back to Elephant and the 427's planned cut back to Southall. I suppose they have won quite a few in the past year or so, the 207, 270, 278, 285, 482, P5 just off the top of my head. The 407 was also converted to DD's which gave some of the 45's buses to it. Speaking for the 414, the buses are going to be withdrawn at the contract renewal next year anyway, which is the year the suggested withdrawal would go ahead, and I think Go-Ahead, Metroline and RATP have their eyes on what Abellio have right now, after taking their routes. In reality it isn't that bad, they have won a lot of routes recently which found a home for most of the buses involved in the route cuts.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 10, 2020 22:51:37 GMT
Not good for Abellio, losing the 414 and C2. I do think the 414 will be withdrawn sooner because now it is just a planned cut but it really is a route that is completely duplicated but in the 414’s case the routes it follows are fine without it (6, 14). I would of thought they could of did something with the 6, 36 and 414 like rerouting the 6 via Harrow Road and Queen’s Park (36 routing) and have the 36 cut back to Paddington and have the 414 extended to Queen’s Park. Solves the 6 issues and could bring more links to Harrow Road to Piccadilly and Whitehall 414 runs alone without the 6 and more busier And the 36 can be shorterned and not an overbussed western section Abellio haven't lost the 414 though.
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