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Post by ljldn on Nov 10, 2020 8:45:42 GMT
Does anyone know if TfL (or contractor) are required to run route tests prior to consultation or implementation of a new route or change to route? If so - how many do they need to run (i.e. do they have to run the tests at various parts of the day to show suitability and/or identify any issues)? If not - do they tend to do route tests out of good practice?
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Post by galwhv69 on Nov 10, 2020 15:37:02 GMT
I know that TfL are meant to attend any route tests that take place
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Post by ljldn on Nov 11, 2020 13:09:00 GMT
Thanks! Do you know if they are required to run tests? or if they just usually do route tests anyway regardless?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 13:30:01 GMT
Yes they will need to run a risk assessment when consulting on changes.
These risks assessments will be with a representative from TFL (often more than one), the operating company's road manager and any other staff that may be relevant to it.
The risk assessment will identify any potential hazards along the route and will feed back accordingly.
Separate to consultations, at Go Ahead at least, each route will be risk assessed every 5 years. These risks assessments will be done by the road manager, in the presence of the garage union rep, and usually driven by a mentor from the relevant garage.
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Post by ljldn on Nov 11, 2020 14:17:50 GMT
I see! And are they meant to do the assessment before the consultation or after (or does it not really matter)? Also - would they be expected to run more than one (i.e. at different times a day) or does that not matter?
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Post by COBO on Nov 11, 2020 14:53:08 GMT
Speaking of route test how are they performed?
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Post by snowman on Nov 11, 2020 15:51:59 GMT
Speaking of route test how are they performed? They literally drive a bus around the route, as already explained with a senior driver, then with a number of others on board in Hi Viz jackets : one or two TfL staff, a union representative, driving manager, and maybe couple of others (training manager etc), if the bus is borrowed then maybe someone from owner, if it not a known route might be a navigator calling out to driver where to turn The High Viz is because they will sometimes jump off and watch at tight corners etc to check for clearances, before jumping back on., or to hold traffic it it needs to reverse and line up again because was clearly too tight. It would normally include pulling into stops to ensure can get in and out and not leave excessive gap to kerb. If the route is common with another route, and that is already cleared for that size bus, then that section likely to be skipped (or just driven along). It should include any short working loops and reversals that are part of the route. |
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Post by barrypotter on Nov 11, 2020 16:23:27 GMT
Speaking of route test how are they performed? They literally drive a bus around the route, as already explained with a senior driver, then with a number of others on board in Hi Viz jackets : one or two TfL staff, a union representative, driving manager, and maybe couple of others (training manager etc), if the bus is borrowed then maybe someone from owner, if it not a known route might be a navigator calling out to driver where to turn The High Viz is because they will sometimes jump off and watch at tight corners etc to check for clearances, before jumping back on., or to hold traffic it it needs to reverse and line up again because was clearly too tight. It would normally include pulling into stops to ensure can get in and out and not leave excessive gap to kerb. If the route is common with another route, and that is already cleared for that size bus, then that section likely to be skipped (or just driven along). It should include any short working loops and reversals that are part of the route. Way back, I took HEA 1 around the 388, and 1220 around the 394 and W12 at CTPlus.... different days of course. Always with a manager, someone from TfL and from council(s). Big disappointment on the 394 when someone suggested that we went to the proposed extension at the back of Kings Cross. The voice of reason reminded him that the roads didn't yet exist. |
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Post by barrypotter on Nov 12, 2020 19:17:23 GMT
Regarding HEA 1, this was merely a formality. Only 388 drivers and spares were originally type trained. As far as the W12 was concerned, there were two councils and TfL aboard, but no manager was available, so I got to chat with the party. The problem perceived with the route was street parking and pavement sticking out into the road at a few places. Also, previous to this test, Walthamstow Village had restrictions placed on vehicles passing through. We were required to provide the registrations of all vehicles which were going to operate through. Originally, this was only all of the single door Solos (OS 2-16, and possibly OS 18), but in order to keep us right, 1220 had to be added the day before the test.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 13, 2020 1:51:02 GMT
Regarding HEA 1, this was merely a formality. Only 388 drivers and spares were originally type trained. As far as the W12 was concerned, there were two councils and TfL aboard, but no manager was available, so I got to chat with the party. The problem perceived with the route was street parking and pavement sticking out into the road at a few places. Also, previous to this test, Walthamstow Village had restrictions placed on vehicles passing through. We were required to provide the registrations of all vehicles which were going to operate through. Originally, this was only all of the single door Solos (OS 2-16, and possibly OS 18), but in order to keep us right, 1220 had to be added the day before the test. I am sure in the past there has been longer Solo's used than the normal short Slim Solo, although that is a good few years ago. |
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Post by barrypotter on Nov 13, 2020 8:17:38 GMT
Regarding HEA 1, this was merely a formality. Only 388 drivers and spares were originally type trained. As far as the W12 was concerned, there were two councils and TfL aboard, but no manager was available, so I got to chat with the party. The problem perceived with the route was street parking and pavement sticking out into the road at a few places. Also, previous to this test, Walthamstow Village had restrictions placed on vehicles passing through. We were required to provide the registrations of all vehicles which were going to operate through. Originally, this was only all of the single door Solos (OS 2-16, and possibly OS 18), but in order to keep us right, 1220 had to be added the day before the test. I am sure in the past there has been longer Solo's used than the normal short Slim Solo, although that is a good few years ago. Indeed. The ex First drivers who tuped with the route, used to tell of long Darts being used, and scorned their newer colleagues who were fearful of taking a W5 Solo out, for fear of it being too long. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 16, 2020 22:29:02 GMT
I am sure in the past there has been longer Solo's used than the normal short Slim Solo, although that is a good few years ago. Indeed. The ex First drivers who tuped with the route, used to tell of long Darts being used, and scorned their newer colleagues who were fearful of taking a W5 Solo out, for fear of it being too long. Saw the Darts used many times, mainly DMS, although a few times the 9.4m DM was used. I think there was one time a DML was used, but cannot remember as its been so many years. |
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Post by busman on Nov 17, 2020 12:32:30 GMT
When a route is due to transfer to a new operator, how long before the day one of the new operation does route testing/training occur? When route learning, does it always take place in a bus or can drivers take a car around a route?
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Post by Paul on Nov 18, 2020 0:24:58 GMT
When a route is due to transfer to a new operator, how long before the day one of the new operation does route testing/training occur? When route learning, does it always take place in a bus or can drivers take a car around a route? In my experience the route learning can vary. When Bromley took the 261, the R5/R10 and the R7, a small E200 was used to take drivers out three or four at a time anything up to a month before the takeover date In contrast, when we took the 246 earlier this year the vast majority of those going on the rota knew the route from five years ago. Some took a refresher drive in their own vehicle but a week or so before takeover, the company did hire a car to take other drivers out and officially route learn (apart from Bromley North to Bromley South - if you work at TB and can’t do that then there’s something seriously wrong!  ) |
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Post by beaver14uk on Nov 23, 2020 22:13:16 GMT
No not all the time. Operators do risk assessments without TfL. I know that TfL are meant to attend any route tests that take place |
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