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Post by delt1c on Nov 16, 2020 13:16:31 GMT
We are all aware that few London routes are still what they used to be. Just wondering what are Londons most shortend Routes, I will Start with the 9's which was once a major route from Liverpool St to Mortlake, now just a shadow from Aldwych to Hammersmith and the 279 which had early morning and late night journeys from Hammond St to Smithfield. I am sure there are many more. The caveat is that, unlike today, short workings were rife and many routes operated in overlapping sections, with few if any journeys covering the entire route. As an example, it is easy to exclaim "the 12 once ran all the way from Willesden Junction to South Croydon!" without appreciating that you would rarely have seen a no. 12 at Willesden Junction displaying anything beyond Dulwich. Another example: the 29 once ran from Victoria to Enfield Town, but you would not find many buses doing the full route. Most buses from Victoria terminated at Wood Green or Palmers Green, whilst buses from Enfield Town tended to terminate at Turnpike Lane - today those journeys are numbered 329. Late night , and Sundays the 29 ran Enfield Town to Vicoria, I was a Road Official in the 80's at Palmers Green in the late 80's so can assure you end to end journeys existede. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 16, 2020 13:34:28 GMT
We are all aware that few London routes are still what they used to be. Just wondering what are Londons most shortend Routes, I will Start with the 9's which was once a major route from Liverpool St to Mortlake, now just a shadow from Aldwych to Hammersmith and the 279 which had early morning and late night journeys from Hammond St to Smithfield. I am sure there are many more. The caveat is that, unlike today, short workings were rife and many routes operated in overlapping sections, with few if any journeys covering the entire route. As an example, it is easy to exclaim "the 12 once ran all the way from Willesden Junction to South Croydon!" without appreciating that you would rarely have seen a no. 12 at Willesden Junction displaying anything beyond Dulwich. Another example: the 29 once ran from Victoria to Enfield Town, but you would not find many buses doing the full route. Most buses from Victoria terminated at Wood Green or Palmers Green, whilst buses from Enfield Town tended to terminate at Turnpike Lane - today those journeys are numbered 329. From memory I think most 29s from Enfield went to Mornington Crescent Station in routemaster days. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 16, 2020 14:28:05 GMT
The 35 used to run from Chingford to Clapham Junction IIRC - having been reading the Reshaping London Buses book over the last couple of the nights, the reshaping plan saw the 35 hacked back to Hackney at that point? I believe by 1986, the 122 was the longest route in London running from Palace to Bexleyheath before being cut back to Plumstead two years later by the new 422 route Again in reality I believe the 122 was Bexleyheath to Forest Hill and PD to Crystal Palace. Yes that's right although at weekends, it did the full route |
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Post by ronnie on Nov 16, 2020 16:35:49 GMT
Not a cutback per se but the most variable has been 388
Mansion house, Blackfriars, elephant and castle, Liverpool Street, London Bridge
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Post by aaron1 on Nov 16, 2020 17:04:24 GMT
112 was also cut back a lot to it longest bit was from Edmonton to Hampton Court then after it withdrawn from Palmers Green replace 232 now it got extend along the a406 again almost to it original routing but are TFL still doing the Osterley extension or have they movie it to another route
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Post by thekbq14 on Nov 16, 2020 17:41:44 GMT
Remember when I used to be on the forum under a previous name a while back there was a thread that was similar talking about routes that are not as popular as they were now or something along there lines with length being a way to measure it. One example I used was the 312 which was the 12A and basically a renumbering of what was the Southern leg of the 12 which was Peckham to South Croydon, this was replaced by the 197 in 2005 and the route which was basically a trunk route became nothing little of Norwood Junction to Croydon shuttle, but patronage decreased went to SD and unlike the 197 which served Morland Road and Woodside Green by itself the 312 was duplicated by 197 which took a faster route to South Norwood, the tram which is faster, 289 and 367 to Addiscombe with the 289 being a faster route to West Croydon and Croydon University Hospital link to, 367 serving back streets, and 130 in Norwood Junction to Ashburton Park duplicating the 312. All it had for it was in my opinion it's high frequency. But that might all change with the current consultation. Obviously this ain't the biggest change as like other's said you had routes like the 43 if I'm not wrong back in the day on Sunday's going all the way from Muswell Hill to Croydon if I'm not mistaken probably done in parts, but this is a relative modern and local scenario.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 16, 2020 18:05:04 GMT
Not a cutback per se but the most variable has been 388 Mansion house, Blackfriars, elephant and castle, Liverpool Street, London Bridge It also was extended to Temple & then to Embankment before returning to Blackfriars after 4 years of it not being the terminus. |
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Post by busman on Nov 16, 2020 19:22:54 GMT
112 was also cut back a lot to it longest bit was from Edmonton to Hampton Court then after it withdrawn from Palmers Green replace 232 now it got extend along the a406 again almost to it original routing but are TFL still doing the Osterley extension or have they movie it to another route Interestingly, the 112 recently got a significant extension to North Finchley. If you check the most recent tender award thread, you will see that the E1 is the route most likely going to be extended to Osterley. This is not far away from its original southern terminus of Brentford County Court, before it was replaced between Ealing Broadway and Brentford by the E8. In terms of percentage of a route being cut in one go, the E1 was cut back by about 66-75% when it was shortened to Ealing Broadway. |
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Post by aaron1 on Nov 16, 2020 19:56:55 GMT
Not a cutback per se but the most variable has been 388 Mansion house, Blackfriars, elephant and castle, Liverpool Street, London Bridge It also was extended to Temple & then to Embankment before returning to Blackfriars after 4 years of it not being the terminus. I did wish that Embankment had a day route again is was only N550 before it got rerouted |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 20:19:31 GMT
More recent ones :
15 since the late 90s has been cut back on both the east and west ends of the route. Cut to Blackwall in 1999 except evenings and then the various west cuts from Paddington back to Trafalgar Square. 40 was also cut from the east at the same time then has had various changes in central London.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 16, 2020 22:42:44 GMT
There are too many to mention. As traffic has increased across over the decades, many routes have had to be shortened. If you want to see the history of each route, here’s an excellent website: www.londonbuses.co.uk/Many of the biggest cutbacks have been to cross city routes passing through central London, the most notable exception to that rule perhaps being the 37, which until 1991 ran from Peckham to Hounslow. Not all has been down to traffic, some have been down to rail schemes, like Jubilee line extension, London Overground etc. Routes like the 69 which is so short imo have fallen victim to this. Other routes that are short now are the 8, 15 to name a few |
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Post by paulsw2 on Nov 16, 2020 23:16:54 GMT
Another route that has been seriously “ pruned” is the 109 as it used to be Purley>Purley via Blackfriars/Westminster & Embakment.
29 Victoria>Potters Bar
52 Victoria>Mill Hill Broadway
54 Plumstead>Riddlesdow
134 Potters Bar>Pimlico
220 West Croydon>Park Royal Stadium
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Post by aaron1 on Nov 17, 2020 8:59:17 GMT
Another route that has been seriously “ pruned” is the 109 as it used to be Purley>Purley via Blackfriars/Westminster & Embakment. 29 Victoria>Potters Bar 52 Victoria>Mill Hill Broadway 54 Plumstead>Riddlesdow 134 Potters Bar>Pimlico 220 West Croydon>Park Royal Stadium Well the 52 Was more Victoria to Borehamwood Then other routes in my area with no overlapping bit 1 Willesden Bus Garage to Greenwich Cutty Sark 2 North Finchley to Crystal Palace 8 Alperton to Bow Road 16 Victoria to Sudbury town that now 245 from Alperton to Cricklewood 18 London Bridge to Edgware 83 Golders Green to Heathrow Central 84 Golders Green to St Albans 92 Hanwell to King's cross renumber from 18C 49 Willesden Junction to Crystal Palace 105 Heathrow Central to Wandsworth 142 Watford Junction to Kilburn Park 176 Willesden Bus Garage to Catford 187 Swiss Cottage to South Harrow 260 Shepherds Bush to Barnet Church 297 Alperton to Waterloo that is for old 46 route So everyone where in your area that you use to get one route |
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Post by aaron1 on Nov 17, 2020 9:13:33 GMT
Another route that has been seriously “ pruned” is the 109 as it used to be Purley>Purley via Blackfriars/Westminster & Embakment. 29 Victoria>Potters Bar 52 Victoria>Mill Hill Broadway 54 Plumstead>Riddlesdow 134 Potters Bar>Pimlico 220 West Croydon>Park Royal Stadium Well the 52 Was more Victoria to Borehamwood Then other routes in my area with no overlapping bit 1 Willesden Bus Garage to Greenwich Cutty Sark 2 North Finchley to Crystal Palace 6 Willesden Bus Garage to Chingford 8 Alperton to Bow Road 16 Victoria to Sudbury town that now 245 from Alperton to Cricklewood 18 London Bridge to Edgware 83 Golders Green to Heathrow Central 84 Golders Green to St Albans 92 Hanwell to King's cross renumber from 18C 49 Willesden Junction to Crystal Palace 105 Heathrow Central to Wandsworth 142 Watford Junction to Kilburn Park 176 Willesden Bus Garage to Catford 187 Swiss Cottage to South Harrow 260 Shepherds Bush to Barnet Church 297 Alperton to Waterloo that is for old 46 route So everyone where in your area that you use to get one route |
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Post by busman on Nov 17, 2020 9:39:17 GMT
Another route that has been seriously “ pruned” is the 109 as it used to be Purley>Purley via Blackfriars/Westminster & Embakment. 29 Victoria>Potters Bar 52 Victoria>Mill Hill Broadway 54 Plumstead>Riddlesdow 134 Potters Bar>Pimlico 220 West Croydon>Park Royal Stadium Well the 52 Was more Victoria to Borehamwood Then other routes in my area with no overlapping bit 1 Willesden Bus Garage to Greenwich Cutty Sark 2 North Finchley to Crystal Palace 8 Alperton to Bow Road 16 Victoria to Sudbury town that now 245 from Alperton to Cricklewood 18 London Bridge to Edgware 83 Golders Green to Heathrow Central 84 Golders Green to St Albans 92 Hanwell to King's cross renumber from 18C 49 Willesden Junction to Crystal Palace 105 Heathrow Central to Wandsworth 142 Watford Junction to Kilburn Park 176 Willesden Bus Garage to Catford 187 Swiss Cottage to South Harrow 260 Shepherds Bush to Barnet Church 297 Alperton to Waterloo that is for old 46 route So everyone where in your area that you use to get one route The 92 never made it to Kings Cross. Has only ever run as far south as Hanwell and as far north as St Raphaels Estate. The core of the route between the Iron Bridge and Wembley has been served continuously since its inception. The 92 has actually been extended since it first began. What isn’t shown on the Ian Armstrong website is that for a short time in the 1980’s the 92 was extended to Hanwell Broadway (terminating at [HL]) during certain times of the day. |
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