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Post by wirewiper on Nov 21, 2020 8:34:21 GMT
It's a shame that the opportunity wasn't taken to swap the 490 & R70 around to allow the former to accommodate double deckers by leaving the R70 at Pools on the Park with the 490 going to Manor Circus instead Very true. Looking forward to seeing how the 490 copes being the only route to Richmond from the Staines Road corridor. I can’t help but think that rerouting the H22 to West Middlesex Hospital at a vastly increased frequency than the current 110 and paralleling route 267 is a huge waste of resources. "Vastly increased frequency"? "huge waste of resources"? It's one extra bus per hour! |
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Post by danorak on Nov 21, 2020 11:53:56 GMT
Looking at that non-stop section via Google Maps, it does look rather awkward to provide stops if you're going to need bays. One section has frontage parking on one side, there's a cycle lane involved, and it looks like you may even need to lose a couple of trees. Perhaps they may try and use one or two of the Red Route bays. It suddenly looks rather expensive.
That said, have we seen any plans for works? TfL consult on schemes along their own roads. Given how long these changes have taken from original gestation to implementation, it would be disappointing if they've only just considered what would be required.
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 21, 2020 12:54:12 GMT
Very true. Looking forward to seeing how the 490 copes being the only route to Richmond from the Staines Road corridor. I can’t help but think that rerouting the H22 to West Middlesex Hospital at a vastly increased frequency than the current 110 and paralleling route 267 is a huge waste of resources. "Vastly increased frequency"? "huge waste of resources"? It's one extra bus per hour! Two extra buses an hour compared to current 110 frequency, you try convincing TfL to do that anywhere else even on route where buses are leaving people behind at stops! |
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Post by 6HP502C on Nov 21, 2020 13:35:16 GMT
"Vastly increased frequency"? "huge waste of resources"? It's one extra bus per hour! Two extra buses an hour compared to current 110 frequency, you try convincing TfL to do that anywhere else even on route where buses are leaving people behind at stops! Put that feedback through the TfL website with the place and times and it will get looked at. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 14:49:44 GMT
I'm not convinced even if bus stops were provided on the A316 that many would use it. Plus side is for Whitton, much quicker route into Richmond (as long as no traffic).
I think the H37 will suffer loading issues between Hounslow and St Margarets though. Especially at school times.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 21, 2020 15:05:10 GMT
"Vastly increased frequency"? "huge waste of resources"? It's one extra bus per hour! Two extra buses an hour compared to current 110 frequency, you try convincing TfL to do that anywhere else even on route where buses are leaving people behind at stops! My bad, I forgot the 110 is currently 3bph and gets an increase to 4bph on 12th December. I still don't regard 2 extra bph on the short run between Twickenham and West Middlesex Hospital as a huge waste of resources, it's equivalent to one extra bus. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 21, 2020 19:59:37 GMT
I'm not convinced even if bus stops were provided on the A316 that many would use it. Plus side is for Whitton, much quicker route into Richmond (as long as no traffic). I think the H37 will suffer loading issues between Hounslow and St Margarets though. Especially at school times. Agreed. |
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Post by Frenzie on Nov 22, 2020 2:02:15 GMT
Did the 110 get fiddled with a few years ago? I recall it used to go from West Mid to Twickenham but got rotated 90 degrees to its current form.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2020 3:12:22 GMT
Did the 110 get fiddled with a few years ago? I recall it used to go from West Mid to Twickenham but got rotated 90 degrees to its current form. Yes, that's correct - the section between Hounslow & West Middlesex was removed with the 110 extended from Twickenham to West Middlesex instead |
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Post by snowman on Nov 22, 2020 7:57:46 GMT
Did the 110 get fiddled with a few years ago? I recall it used to go from West Mid to Twickenham but got rotated 90 degrees to its current form. Yes, that's correct - the section between Hounslow & West Middlesex was removed with the 110 extended from Twickenham to West Middlesex instead It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 9:07:48 GMT
Yes, that's correct - the section between Hounslow & West Middlesex was removed with the 110 extended from Twickenham to West Middlesex instead It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? The Cranford extension was MF Peaks and Sat Shopping hours. When FW ran it, the pvr was 5/5/0. FW 85 was the spreadover bus MF which ended it’s day in the PM peak on a unique in service garage run from Twickenham Albany to FW via Hampton Road. One of my joy ride patterns was Twickenham to Hounslow on a 281 then back to Twickenham on a 110 , getting off at Twickenham King Street to get another 281 to Hounslow all over again. Sad ! |
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Post by thelondonthing on Nov 22, 2020 18:41:30 GMT
Yes, that's correct - the section between Hounslow & West Middlesex was removed with the 110 extended from Twickenham to West Middlesex instead It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 19:25:32 GMT
It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) You're right in saying the 110 under LCSW was operated, initially, by elderly Atlanteans, but they were soon replaced with brand new Volvos. That contract lasted 3 years. Westlink had, by then, lost the vast majority of their LS's and from what I recall, the Deltas were the main stay of the route from day 1. The 111 was indeed converted to DR/DT op on Sundays. However, LU soon took steps to relieve overcrowding. As you said, sunday shoppers and revised trading laws changed things somewhat. An additional 6th bus, AV 66, came out in the afternoons and performed some additional trips. This was followed, by a regular additional x30min service Cranford to Kingston still with DR/DT. Thankfully, a full DD conversion followed not long after. Support was provided by the airport authority to have all trips on the 111 to Heathrow. This coincided with a fuller timetable giving Hanworth to Kingston a full, daily, early am service. The 391 has also had a fairly interesting life, with R&I Tours running the Sunday service at one point. Edit. WY had F reg Dennis buses ordered first for the 110, then G reg Volvos for the 131. I recall them operating on both routes. Excellent vehicles, but the heating always seemed to be on. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 28, 2020 21:53:52 GMT
It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 28, 2020 21:54:04 GMT
It was changed 9 years ago Going back further there were extensions from Hounslow to Cranham (via Heston) Mon-Fri, not evenings According to Ian Armstrong’s brilliant route history, between March 1937 and May 1938 there was an extension via Richmond, Sandycoombe Road to Kew Gardens. So the route regains an old section after 81 years EDIT : just spotted this is my 9999th post, where did the time go ? During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. |
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