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Post by paulo on Nov 28, 2020 23:32:04 GMT
During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. Using the 111 as a kid I recall it’s conversion to MCW Metrobus from Leyland Nationals. As is often the case today, most of those that transferred in were from Fulwell and perhaps a couple from Stamford Brook and Alperton. I think the 202 (now H22) may have converted at the same time but I can’t be sure. The PVR was no more than 8 (AV 61+) - in fact it may have been 6 - back then which when you consider the length of the route is incredible. What’s it at now....24? I can remember the growns well when a National subbed for a metro which was often the case. Hounslow only ever received one new which was M967. It stayed for most of its London life before finishing its days at Hounslow Heath. Great vehicles those Metros.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 29, 2020 0:51:42 GMT
I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. Hounslow only ever received one new which was M967. It stayed for most of its London life before finishing its days at Hounslow Heath. Great vehicles those Metros. Second that regarding Metros, excellent vehicles they were. Most of the ones I used were out of SW on the 37 and later, 196 as well as out of BN & TH on various routes under Cowie & Arriva & even a TC example on the 468. I did have two rides on London United M's on the 337 (Clapham Junction to Richmond and back) as a kid when my nan took me to Richmond for a day out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 15:46:20 GMT
I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. Using the 111 as a kid I recall it’s conversion to MCW Metrobus from Leyland Nationals. As is often the case today, most of those that transferred in were from Fulwell and perhaps a couple from Stamford Brook and Alperton. I think the 202 (now H22) may have converted at the same time but I can’t be sure. The PVR was no more than 8 (AV 61+) - in fact it may have been 6 - back then which when you consider the length of the route is incredible. What’s it at now....24? I can remember the growns well when a National subbed for a metro which was often the case. Hounslow only ever received one new which was M967. It stayed for most of its London life before finishing its days at Hounslow Heath. Great vehicles those Metros. What excellent memories. I was told, how true this was who knows, that AV refused to put Ms on the 111 until after FW had run the 110 under the bridge at Hounslow East with M’s. Certainly tallies with dates. 110 went to Metrobus in first batch at FW. As for AV and FW M’s, I know what garages buses I preferred. AV had an abundance of V reg examples and a few W reg. M584 was the highest numbered bus until M967 came along. M966 was at FW and incidentally is a bus I fondly recall catching on a 110 once on a garage run post AM peak from Hounslow Bus Stn. My Sunday trips out often started on the 0830 111 from Hampton to Kingston, or the 0930 from Hampton to Hounslow. These were the first trips on Sundays at that point. AV did manage to trump FW when NB closed, receiving the lions share of C reg examples , along with M1439 from BN.
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Post by thelondonthing on Dec 4, 2020 8:41:31 GMT
During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) You're right in saying the 110 under LCSW was operated, initially, by elderly Atlanteans, but they were soon replaced with brand new Volvos. That contract lasted 3 years. Westlink had, by then, lost the vast majority of their LS's and from what I recall, the Deltas were the main stay of the route from day 1. The 111 was indeed converted to DR/DT op on Sundays. However, LU soon took steps to relieve overcrowding. As you said, sunday shoppers and revised trading laws changed things somewhat. An additional 6th bus, AV 66, came out in the afternoons and performed some additional trips. This was followed, by a regular additional x30min service Cranford to Kingston still with DR/DT. Thankfully, a full DD conversion followed not long after. Support was provided by the airport authority to have all trips on the 111 to Heathrow. This coincided with a fuller timetable giving Hanworth to Kingston a full, daily, early am service. The 391 has also had a fairly interesting life, with R&I Tours running the Sunday service at one point. Edit. WY had F reg Dennis buses ordered first for the 110, then G reg Volvos for the 131. I recall them operating on both routes. Excellent vehicles, but the heating always seemed to be on. Thank you for those corrections, and for the extra details you shared there. My recollections of the 110 were from back when I was a young boy, and my memory clearly wasn't as reliable as I'd hoped!
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Post by thelondonthing on Dec 4, 2020 8:43:50 GMT
During my childhood living in Heston, it was a time of frequent change on the 110, and the 111 that it shadowed for most of its routing. My earliest recollections of the 110 were during its London Country days, when it was operated primarily by a shabby collection of green Leyland Atlanteans (which had a full-length rubber strip on the ceiling to push the bell!), which were supplemented by a sub-fleet of Atlanteans acquired from Manchester's GM Buses (operating in full orange GM Buses livery!). The switch to Westlink saw a range of buses in operation, including Leyland Nationals, Wright Darts, and eventually a standardised fleet of Optare Deltas that became the mainstay on the route. When I was growing up, the 110 operated from Cranford to Twickenham (later only on weekdays, as you mentioned), overlapping with the 111; in my earliest childhood, the 111 operated a 15-minute service with half of the buses terminating at Cranford ('Berkeley Arms Hotel', later 'The Avenue'), and the other half turning away to avoid The Avenue, running down The Parkway dual carriageway to follow a circuitous routing to then proceed onto 'Heathrow Central' (which included a plane icon on the blinds). Around this time, the 111 also endured the horror of being reduced from double-decker Metrobus capacity to Dennis Dart 'Harrier' buses on Sundays - woefully inadequate for the huge numbers of shoppers heading to Kingston and Hounslow, as well as travellers heading to and from Heathrow. Long after the 110 had been fully and permanently curtailed to Twickenham (a move that made sense, given that so much of the route was identical to the 111), the split Cranford/Heathrow termination arrangement continued on the 111, before all 111 services were eventually scheduled to run through to Heathrow, with numerous frequency increases over the years, along with the restoration of double-deck services on Sundays. Through the London United years, the 110 continued to run from Hounslow Bus Station to Twickenham (Albany stand, and later Arragon Road) for many years until the West Middlesex Hospital extension eventually came in 2011 at the Hounslow end; it was revised again in 2016 to run through to West Mid from Twickenham instead, terminating at Hounslow Bus Station again at the other end. As you mention, there's something pleasing in seeing an ancient (albeit sporadic!) connection on the 110 restored with its new extension through to Richmond and Kew Gardens. Given the somewhat chaotic history of the route, it will no doubt change again in the not-too-distant future...! (And congratulations on reaching your 10,000th post, snowman!) I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. You're quite right - I did mean curtailed at Hounslow, not Twickenham.
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Post by thelondonthing on Dec 4, 2020 9:19:56 GMT
I think you mean permanently curtailed at Hounslow Bus Station rather than Twickenham. The cut back of the 110 from Cranford to Hounslow Bus Station on Mon-Fri peak hours in the mid 1990s was incredibly shortsighted but took place prior to the creation of TfL when retrenchment was still happening on peak hour services to cut costs. I remember that the loadings on the 111 during peak hours between Heston and Hounslow became intolerable as a result. The 111 was subsequently increased in frequency to x8mins in peak hours, this also helped at Hanworth where buses towards Kingston regularly left passengers behind during the morning peak due to the heavy demand to Hampton Schools and commuters heading to work in Kingston. The 111 has really flourished over the years. The extension of the full service to Heathrow and the frequency increases have been much deserved. It remains popular as the fastest bus route between Hounslow and Kingston. Using the 111 as a kid I recall it’s conversion to MCW Metrobus from Leyland Nationals. As is often the case today, most of those that transferred in were from Fulwell and perhaps a couple from Stamford Brook and Alperton. I think the 202 (now H22) may have converted at the same time but I can’t be sure. The PVR was no more than 8 (AV 61+) - in fact it may have been 6 - back then which when you consider the length of the route is incredible. What’s it at now....24? I can remember the growns well when a National subbed for a metro which was often the case. Hounslow only ever received one new which was M967. It stayed for most of its London life before finishing its days at Hounslow Heath. Great vehicles those Metros. The low PVR on the 111 back in the day undoubtedly added to the challenges of operating such a long route reliably. Indeed, for many years, the route was operated with astonishingly frequent short-turns. These were no doubt needed as the regular delays on the route - caused by a mix of traffic, holdups from passengers boarding and disembarking packed buses, and breakdowns - made it impractical to run every bus along the full length from Kingston to Cranford/Heathrow Central. The 111 had a dizzying array of short-turn points during that time: - Heathrow Airport North / Heathrow North, Bath Road / Bath Road, Nobel Drive - Cranford, The Avenue / Cranford, Berkeley Arms Hotel (short-turn on buses originally destined for Heathrow Central) - Heston, St Leonard's Church - Lampton, Black Horse / Lampton Corner - Hounslow Bus Station - Hanworth, Fir Road / Hanworth, Bear Road - Hampton, Nurserylands - Hampton Station - Hampton Court Palace - Hampton Wick Roundabout / Hampton Court Road, Horse Fair ...and you could never be sure if the bus you were waiting for would actually get you to where you wanted to go. The 111 was my local route for 15 years (I even endured the long journey to school from Heston to Hampton for several years during my adolescence), and it was frustratingly common to get on a bus with a stated destination (e.g. Cranford), and for the bus to then terminate somewhere short, and for everyone to be chucked off and told to wait for the next bus. Things are much better these days, thankfully!
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Post by thelondonthing on Dec 8, 2020 9:59:53 GMT
Regarding the non-stop section of the new 110 between Twickenham Rugby Stadium and St Margarets Station, local TfL signage advertising the changes indicates that this will be a temporary measure, and that new bus stops are on the way. I wonder how many new stops will be introduced on this section. - - - Addendum: The entry on the TfL Bus Changes page has also been updated to mention the new stops on the A316:
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 8, 2020 17:20:01 GMT
What vehicles will the extended 110 operate with?
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Post by vjaska on Dec 8, 2020 18:35:23 GMT
What vehicles will the extended 110 operate with? DLE’s from the 391 alongside its own DLE’s.
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Post by snowman on Dec 8, 2020 18:46:40 GMT
What vehicles will the extended 110 operate with? I understand it will be 10.9m E200MMCs I think there are 2 older DLEs as part of 391 (30009, 30024), but not sure which route these are destined for
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Post by cc2005 on Dec 9, 2020 14:20:47 GMT
What vehicles will the extended 110 operate with? I understand it will be 10.9m E200MMCs I think there are 2 older DLEs as part of 391 (30009, 30024), but not sure which route these are destined for So there will be a mix of 10.9m DLEs with both the long and short wheelchair bay on the route? (with 3 or 4 rows of seats behind the driver)
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Post by snowman on Dec 11, 2020 8:19:50 GMT
29.5 years after it was introduced, last day of 391 today
For first few months from May 1991 just operated between Turnham Green and Fulham Broadway It was extended to Richmond few months later (replacing cut back 27)
The Sands End section was added in 2004 Hammersmith- Sands End was replaced by 306 a year ago
During its existence was always operated by London United (including under Transdev and RATP) Except for few years when Sunday service was operated by R+I buses
Tomorrow the remaining 391 is replaced by extended 110
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 11, 2020 9:03:40 GMT
29.5 years after it was introduced, last day of 391 today For first few months from May 1991 just operated between Turnham Green and Fulham Broadway It was extended to Richmond few months later (replacing cut back 27) The Sands End section was added in 2004 Hammersmith- Sands End was replaced by 306 a year ago During its existence was always operated by London United (including under Transdev and RATP) Except for few years when Sunday service was operated by R+I buses Tomorrow the remaining 391 is replaced by extended 110 I wonder how many people will get a surprise tomorrow when their 110 from Twickenham heads off to Richmond? Or how many people will let those strange 110s go past while they wait in vain for their 391 ....
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Post by thelondonthing on Dec 11, 2020 10:05:36 GMT
29.5 years after it was introduced, last day of 391 today For first few months from May 1991 just operated between Turnham Green and Fulham Broadway It was extended to Richmond few months later (replacing cut back 27) The Sands End section was added in 2004 Hammersmith- Sands End was replaced by 306 a year ago During its existence was always operated by London United (including under Transdev and RATP) Except for few years when Sunday service was operated by R+I buses Tomorrow the remaining 391 is replaced by extended 110 I wonder how many people will get a surprise tomorrow when their 110 from Twickenham heads off to Richmond? Or how many people will let those strange 110s go past while they wait in vain for their 391 .... I spoke to my mother a few days ago about the changes, as she's a regular user of the 391, and she had absolutely no idea that any of this was going to happen. Had I not mentioned it, I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd ended up standing at the bus stop for ages waiting for a 391 that was never going to come...! My dad sometimes uses the 493 from Sheen to do a big shop at the Sainsbury's at Manor Circus - and he too was unaware that the 493 is being withdrawn between there and Richmond Bus Station. I know that posters have gone up advertising the changes at some bus stops (as I mentioned in my previous post), but has there been any other promotion to raise passenger awareness? Onboard iBus announcements? Notices on Countdown displays? Posters on buses? Back in the (good?) ol' days, you could have expected leaflets through your front door advertising a major change like this, but these days, it seems passengers are largely expected to keep themselves informed. You might even have seen specially printed leaflets available on buses (some buses even had dedicated leaflet holders for exactly that purpose!). The reality is that many regular passengers don't even notice prominent bright yellow posters at bus stops, and older persons especially don't frequent the TfL site seeking out information about changes to local services, so it's essential that information be disseminated to passengers in more than one way, to ensure that the message gets through. I wonder if TfL even sent out a press release to local newspapers, to help spread the word to those who are less reliant on websites and apps - I suspect they did not, even though doing so would have been a zero-cost, minimal-effort task. I would imagine there will be quite a few confused passengers tomorrow...
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Post by greenboy on Dec 11, 2020 10:16:26 GMT
I wonder how many people will get a surprise tomorrow when their 110 from Twickenham heads off to Richmond? Or how many people will let those strange 110s go past while they wait in vain for their 391 .... I spoke to my mother a few days ago about the changes, as she's a regular user of the 391, and she had absolutely no idea that any of this was going to happen. Had I not mentioned it, I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd ended up standing at the bus stop for ages waiting for a 391 that was never going to come...! My dad sometimes uses the 493 from Sheen to do a big shop at the Sainsbury's at Manor Circus - and he too was unaware that the 493 is being withdrawn between there and Richmond Bus Station. I know that posters have gone up advertising the changes at some bus stops (as I mentioned in my previous post), but has there been any other promotion to raise passenger awareness? Onboard iBus announcements? Notices on Countdown displays? Posters on buses? Back in the (good?) ol' days, you could have expected leaflets through your front door advertising a major change like this, but these days, it seems passengers are largely expected to keep themselves informed. You might even have seen specially printed leaflets available on buses (some buses even had dedicated leaflet holders for exactly that purpose!). The reality is that many regular passengers don't even notice prominent bright yellow posters at bus stops, and older persons especially don't frequent the TfL site seeking out information about changes to local services, so it's essential that information be disseminated to passengers in more than one way, to ensure that the message gets through. I wonder if TfL even sent out a press release to local newspapers, to help spread the word to those who are less reliant on websites and apps - I suspect they did not, even though doing so would have been a zero-cost, minimal-effort task. I would imagine there will be quite a few confused passengers tomorrow... Yes there is no substitute for leaflets through letter boxes, TfL could even contract Royal Mail to deliver them, they put plenty of unwanted junkmail through letter boxes. I remember talking to a lady at a bus stop in Kensington and she was horrified when I told her that the 10 was being replaced by the 23, she had no idea despite being a regular user of the route.
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