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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 26, 2020 22:28:52 GMT
Wasn't there a low number like 20 chosen originally for the old 410 route or am I thinking of the 402 before the mroe traditional numbers were restored?
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Post by localet44 on Dec 26, 2020 22:54:47 GMT
Wasn't there a low number like 20 chosen originally for the old 410 route or am I thinking of the 402 before the mroe traditional numbers were restored? Kentish Bus renumbered the 402 to 22 between 1987 and 1990. I think the 410 was only cut back to Westerham then again at Oxted |
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Post by buspete on Dec 27, 2020 0:06:25 GMT
I think the 320 was a LT introduced route rather then introduced by Metrobus commercially? The 320 has its origins in the 410, which was a long-standing East Surrey/London Country route between Bromley North and Redhill. When it commenced in 1990 it was operated by London & Country from Dunton Green Garage near Sevenoaks. Until 1998 (when Metrobus took over the route) some journeys continued to Westerham, these were replaced by the new 246. The 410 had 2 buses an hour, with one of these buses going on to I think Reigate via Oxted, it only run Monday - Saturday. The Green Line provided a 2 hourly Sunday service. In those days Biggin Hill had an appalling bus service The difference is night and day. You have 7 bph to Bromley, 2/3 buses bph to Orpington also a handy service to New Addlington with an easy connection to the tram network for Croydon. |
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Post by buspete on Dec 27, 2020 0:08:41 GMT
In many ways in Bromley, Metrobus bought services to people's homes on a commercial buses with the 351, 354, 356, 358 and possibly the 367 aswell saving tfl the job. In many ways Metronet were ahead of the curve, same as Transcity with the 492A, which eventually became the B14. |
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Post by danorak on Dec 27, 2020 12:58:18 GMT
Wasn't there a low number like 20 chosen originally for the old 410 route or am I thinking of the 402 before the mroe traditional numbers were restored? There used to be short workings on the 410 between Bromley and Biggin Hill Valley: I think the main route ended up with London Country South West but the short workings were the responsibility of the South East company. When it became Kentish Bus, these became 20 as part of a wider route renumbering. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 27, 2020 13:13:32 GMT
There was a 706 I belive aswell that was still running in the 80s and 90s I think which I guess was along the 402 routing.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 27, 2020 13:27:58 GMT
There was a 706 I belive aswell that was still running in the 80s and 90s I think which I guess was along the 402 routing. There was a Green Line route 706, I also seem to recall the 402 being renumbered 22 for a while and Boroline operating the Sunday service with double deckers. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 27, 2020 13:34:42 GMT
At one point there were nearly no LRT routes between Farnborough and Bromley with only 706 after the 261 was planned to be cut back. That led to the introduction of the hourly 361.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 27, 2020 15:11:22 GMT
There was a 706 I belive aswell that was still running in the 80s and 90s I think which I guess was along the 402 routing. There was a Green Line route 706, I also seem to recall the 402 being renumbered 22 for a while and Boroline operating the Sunday service with double deckers. The Green Line route was originally the 704 and ran all the way from Tunbridge Wells to Windsor, there was a 705 variant that ran via Westerham and Biggin Hill. There was also a local bus route 402 that ran between Sevenoaks and Bromley North. When the Green Line routes were split in London 704 was retained for the Victoria to Windsor section and the Tunbridge Wells to Victoria section was numbered 706. As loadings on Green Line and London Country buses declined the 706 morphed into more of a local bus route, and eventually absorbed and replaced the 402. When Kentish Buses was created all routes were renumbered from their traditional London Country numbers into a new sequence beginning with 1; hence the 706 became the 22. These new numbers did not prove popular and Kentish Bus brought back traditional numbers, and the 22 became the 402 again. |
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Post by thekbq14 on Dec 29, 2020 5:20:23 GMT
In many ways in Bromley, Metrobus bought services to people's homes on a commercial buses with the 351, 354, 356, 358 and possibly the 367 aswell saving tfl the job. 367 isn't part of the Metrobus part, it was made in conjunction with route 366 going from West Croydon to Beckenham Junction, which replaced the northern section of the 166 which got withdrawn between Shirley Monks Orchard Road and Beckenham Junction. The 366 later got withdrawn fully and the 367 got extended from Beckenham Junction to Bromley North replacing the 396 which itself got withdrawn replaced by changes in the Bromley area by 126 and 284. Routes you missed out are 352,353,355,357,359 and 361. With 353 being the first one of these commercial bus routes from Metrobus and at the time a very popular between Croydon and Orpington, before Tramlink took it's patronage. This was introduced with the 357 which ran alongside it between Croydon and Orpington via Forestdale and 355 Croydon to Forestdale, this will later got replaced by the 354 which got extended from Bromley and Forestdale to run to Bromley and West Croydon. This would later get cut at Addington Village to go to West Croydon, then renamed T33, then 433. The 361 should not be confused with a previous 361 that replaced the 261 between Bromley and Green Street Green, this wasn't commercially operated by Metrobus unlike the 361 afterwards, ironically though both routes were operated by Metrobus which is the case with these Metrobus commercial routes using similar numbers see 354 renumbered to T33/433 and 351 being renumbered to 354 despite Metrobus previously having a 354. The commercially operated 361 served Crystal Palace and Bromley via South Norwood, which I think today would be a useful link, this ran in conjunction with the 351 and got replaced by the 410 between Crystal Palace to Norwood Junction and 356 taking over the left overs in the Anerley/Birkbeck area, this was the last commercial route to be created by Metrobus in 2000. This shouldn't be confused with the original 356 which ran from Croydon to Tatsfield via old route 353,current routes 246 and 464, this route was also a commercial route operated by Metrobus. It was withdrawn just before the introduction of Tramlink and was replaced by route 464 which operated between Tatsfield and New Addington. This was done to allow a direct connection between New Addington and Biggin Hill where passengers can change at New Addington for the tram to connections to places such as Croydon and Addington Village. |
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Post by Catford94 on Dec 29, 2020 20:22:38 GMT
Did the 493 use the GS in the dim and distant past? I suppose the route might have started off with GS operation to get a service into Ramsden Estate when only a few of the houses were completed and occupied, with bigger buses allocated as more residents moved in. I can't recall seeing a photo of a GS on the 493 (and don't have personal memories that far back) but would not want to rule it out - there may have been odd journeys worked off the 471 - Dunton Green seemed to have more of these than many country garages.
Fairly sure that the 493 started off as (mainly at least) RT worked 854 / 854A in the 1950s - photo of an 854 (not mine) here When Kentish Buses was created all routes were renumbered from their traditional London Country numbers into a new sequence beginning with 1; hence the 706 became the 22. These new numbers did not prove popular and Kentish Bus brought back traditional numbers, and the 22 became the 402 again. I wonder if Transcity may have encouraged that - there was a brief spell where green 477s ran between Dartford and Crockenhill in competition with yellow / purple 17s, except that the 477 was Transcity, and similar on a few other routes in the area.
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Post by buspete on Jan 1, 2021 2:45:06 GMT
In many ways in Bromley, Metrobus bought services to people's homes on a commercial buses with the 351, 354, 356, 358 and possibly the 367 aswell saving tfl the job. 367 isn't part of the Metrobus part, it was made in conjunction with route 366 going from West Croydon to Beckenham Junction, which replaced the northern section of the 166 which got withdrawn between Shirley Monks Orchard Road and Beckenham Junction. The 366 later got withdrawn fully and the 367 got extended from Beckenham Junction to Bromley North replacing the 396 which itself got withdrawn replaced by changes in the Bromley area by 126 and 284. Routes you missed out are 352,353,355,357,359 and 361. With 353 being the first one of these commercial bus routes from Metrobus and at the time a very popular between Croydon and Orpington, before Tramlink took it's patronage. This was introduced with the 357 which ran alongside it between Croydon and Orpington via Forestdale and 355 Croydon to Forestdale, this will later got replaced by the 354 which got extended from Bromley and Forestdale to run to Bromley and West Croydon. This would later get cut at Addington Village to go to West Croydon, then renamed T33, then 433. The 361 should not be confused with a previous 361 that replaced the 261 between Bromley and Green Street Green, this wasn't commercially operated by Metrobus unlike the 361 afterwards, ironically though both routes were operated by Metrobus which is the case with these Metrobus commercial routes using similar numbers see 354 renumbered to T33/433 and 351 being renumbered to 354 despite Metrobus previously having a 354. The commercially operated 361 served Crystal Palace and Bromley via South Norwood, which I think today would be a useful link, this ran in conjunction with the 351 and got replaced by the 410 between Crystal Palace to Norwood Junction and 356 taking over the left overs in the Anerley/Birkbeck area, this was the last commercial route to be created by Metrobus in 2000. This shouldn't be confused with the original 356 which ran from Croydon to Tatsfield via old route 353,current routes 246 and 464, this route was also a commercial route operated by Metrobus. It was withdrawn just before the introduction of Tramlink and was replaced by route 464 which operated between Tatsfield and New Addington. This was done to allow a direct connection between New Addington and Biggin Hill where passengers can change at New Addington for the tram to connections to places such as Croydon and Addington Village. Great point regarding the 166. I am sure that used to run every 30 minutes Monday to Friday only. Now Village Way has 6 bph and 4 bph on Sunday service. Including on both routes a handy link to Bromley, which didn’t exist before. The 352 additionally goes to Lower Sydenham. So a terrific uplift in service for the Village Way residents. |
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Post by rugbyref on Jan 8, 2021 18:52:02 GMT
Today, on my covid exercise walk, I saw an original Roundabout minibus set back from the A21 between Pratts Bottom and Green Street Green, in the company of an RML/RCL. Blast from the past!
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 8, 2021 19:49:42 GMT
What would people think was the worst change of the Roundabout network?
For me I think whilst the R1 was an improved freq, it did leave a rather poor service from South of TB into Bromley Town Centre.
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Post by rugbyref on Jan 9, 2021 9:11:20 GMT
Agreed, and only really improved when the 261 was extended to PRU Hospital.
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