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Post by bus12451 on Jan 16, 2021 15:11:08 GMT
Sorry for the ignorance but who was actually in charge at the Bexleybus, Kingstonbus etc..was it an outside company who took on an entire areas routes or was it a subsidy of LRT? I believe the services Bexleybus operated were contracted by LRT. Not sure who owned it. |
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Post by danorak on Jan 16, 2021 15:16:31 GMT
Sorry for the ignorance but who was actually in charge at the Bexleybus, Kingstonbus etc..was it an outside company who took on an entire areas routes or was it a subsidy of LRT? I believe the services Bexleybus operated were contracted by LRT. Not sure who owned it. Bexleybus was a 'low cost' unit within Selkent. |
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Post by buspete on Jan 16, 2021 22:28:28 GMT
So are you saying you now have 4 bus routes serve Ramsden Estate? The benefit of extending the 96 to North Greenwich would be it connects to the Jubilee Line and Elizabeth Line at Woolwich. I would have the 96 run all night and would connect with Night Tube on the Jubilee/Elizabeth Line (if that ever runs again, is anyone’s guess,) as you kind of suggested. Granted though it would be a long bus route, which can become problematic. The North Greenwich extension has been suggested on another thread, as has a all night bus service. It seems now that night bus routes follow the exact day route, gone are partial extensions and short workings, which the buses used to do years back. So do agree with the concept of N96, but not sure TFL would sanction a specific night route now? 4 routes may be excessive (it's not for me to say either way) but it's the only way it would likely come about. The only other option would be to remove the 353 from the estate and cut that back to allow the 61 in which would give further impetus in extending that to Croydon via Coombe Lane & Lloyd Park with the Forestdale section passing to something more local. I understand the benefit of what the 96 could bring but when you factor in it's length and the hot spots it currently runs through, it becomes less worthwhile in bringing that to fruition. As for the night routes, it has never been a policy where night routes must exactly follow unless they are 24 hour routes - N prefix routes have always involved sections of route that the day service never ran along and use of the N prefix has started to become more common again in the last few years following some day time routes being cut back and a new N prefix covering the old routing. I understand the benefits of keeping bus routes short. It was never TFL’s policy to have night buses mirror day routes I agree with that, however Ken Livingstone when running to become mayor 1st time round did say he would like to see certain day routes run all night. Hence why we have all night buses on the 321, 108 and 472. I know from the old days it was assumed that people would want to come home from London late, hence why all the night buses started in London and travelled out, but now we have night tube, which is a disaster and probably will not restart again. Have there been any new “N” routes in the last 20 years? I would say what are also gone as well where you would have a buses extended ‘Monday to Saturday’ or ‘Saturday Shopping Hours’ and part of the timetable short working. So all the timetabled buses run the whole route, every day they operate. Not sure if this is TFL’s policy to standardise, if it is/was it was a good choice? So problem you need a long bus route to reach a night tube station, unless you extend it nights only, however I am not sure TFL are keen doing this, for the reasons I give above. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 23:16:57 GMT
The N89 was probably the last proper N route introduced in 2003 and even that largely replaced the N81. Most new N routes in the past 5 years have simply been reversals of 24h routes where the day route gets cut back. N53, N83, N242, N266.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 17, 2021 0:04:14 GMT
4 routes may be excessive (it's not for me to say either way) but it's the only way it would likely come about. The only other option would be to remove the 353 from the estate and cut that back to allow the 61 in which would give further impetus in extending that to Croydon via Coombe Lane & Lloyd Park with the Forestdale section passing to something more local. I understand the benefit of what the 96 could bring but when you factor in it's length and the hot spots it currently runs through, it becomes less worthwhile in bringing that to fruition. As for the night routes, it has never been a policy where night routes must exactly follow unless they are 24 hour routes - N prefix routes have always involved sections of route that the day service never ran along and use of the N prefix has started to become more common again in the last few years following some day time routes being cut back and a new N prefix covering the old routing. I understand the benefits of keeping bus routes short. It was never TFL’s policy to have night buses mirror day routes I agree with that, however Ken Livingstone when running to become mayor 1st time round did say he would like to see certain day routes run all night. Hence why we have all night buses on the 321, 108 and 472. I know from the old days it was assumed that people would want to come home from London late, hence why all the night buses started in London and travelled out, but now we have night tube, which is a disaster and probably will not restart again. Have there been any new “N” routes in the last 20 years? I would say what are also gone as well where you would have a buses extended ‘Monday to Saturday’ or ‘Saturday Shopping Hours’ and part of the timetable short working. So all the timetabled buses run the whole route, every day they operate. Not sure if this is TFL’s policy to standardise, if it is/was it was a good choice? So problem you need a long bus route to reach a night tube station, unless you extend it nights only, however I am not sure TFL are keen doing this, for the reasons I give above. The N27 & N250 were re-introduced, the N136 & N266 are two other brand new examples whilst the N47 & N159 were both restructured into a N199 & N109 so new N prefix routes have been appearing again even if it's in small numbers. TfL's policy is to have a standardised network which makes a lot of sense IMO hence the removal of almost all extensions based on certain days or times or converting evening & Sunday services to single decks. Having buses sit around at garages for most of the day in London isn't particularly cost effective - outside London, it works much better due to many working inter worked with other routes. |
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Post by buspete on Jan 17, 2021 3:20:25 GMT
I agree with the standardised network. Years ago it was mad.
Take the 51 as it is pertinent to Roundabout, the service had 6bph and 3bph went on to Orpington the other 3 terminated at Foots Cray.
On a Sunday there was 2 bph that went to Orpington and a 51A that provided 2bph. So 4bph between Woolwich and Foots Cray.
The service is straightforward and is easier for your average person to understand.
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Post by redexpress on Jan 17, 2021 6:26:06 GMT
The N89 was probably the last proper N route introduced in 2003 and even that largely replaced the N81. Most new N routes in the past 5 years have simply been reversals of 24h routes where the day route gets cut back. N53, N83, N242, N266. N113 introduced in 2012 was a genuinely new route. Probably the last proper new N route, excluding the N199 as that largely replaced the N47 and didn't break any new ground apart from a short stretch of road between Greenwich and Lewisham. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 17, 2021 8:55:06 GMT
I agree with the standardised network. Years ago it was mad. Take the 51 as it is pertinent to Roundabout, the service had 6bph and 3bph went on to Orpington the other 3 terminated at Foots Cray. On a Sunday there was 2 bph that went to Orpington and a 51A that provided 2bph. So 4bph between Woolwich and Foots Cray. The service is straightforward and is easier for your average person to understand. The Sunday only 51A was a good use of resources livening up garage journeys to and from Swanley although it later moved to Dartford. These buses would have otherwise have terminated at Foots Cray, obviously Sundays were much quieter then and 2bph to Orpington was deemed to be sufficient. |
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Post by buspete on Mar 20, 2021 21:24:24 GMT
Does anyone know why the R1 got withdrawn between Green St Green and Bromley Common?
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 20, 2021 21:26:26 GMT
Does anyone know why the R1 got withdrawn between Green St Green and Bromley Common? Would have been far better of it had extended further to Bromley North to support the 358. |
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Post by danorak on Mar 21, 2021 13:34:29 GMT
The original R1 was effectively withdrawn altogether at that point when you look at the other rerouteings that occurred. I was a little surprised that the number was retained as it bore little resemblance to the previous service.
As for the Bromley Common to Green St Green section, it simply wasn't needed as the 358 had supplanted it. The resources saved enabled other improvements to take place.
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Post by buspete on Mar 22, 2021 2:48:41 GMT
Does anyone know why the R1 got withdrawn between Green St Green and Bromley Common? Would have been far better of it had extended further to Bromley North to support the 358. I agree at the time when the network was developed, it seems bonkers it didn’t continue to Bromley Town Centre. However the 358 is a lot better service than the R1. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 22, 2021 9:39:01 GMT
Would have been far better of it had extended further to Bromley North to support the 358. I agree at the time when the network was developed, it seems bonkers it didn’t continue to Bromley Town Centre. However the 358 is a lot better service than the R1. Don't forget that when the R1 started, it used small "bread-van" minibuses which would have been overwhelmed by the passenger numbers in Bromley, especially if there hadn't been a bus to Bromley Common for a while. Besides Bromley to Green Street Green had the 361 and 706 which combined into a half-hourly frequency, and passengers travelling between Bromley and Orpington had the 61 and 208. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 22, 2021 9:59:55 GMT
I agree at the time when the network was developed, it seems bonkers it didn’t continue to Bromley Town Centre. However the 358 is a lot better service than the R1. Don't forget that when the R1 started, it used small "bread-van" minibuses which would have been overwhelmed by the passenger numbers in Bromley, especially if there hadn't been a bus to Bromley Common for a while. Besides Bromley to Green Street Green had the 361 and 706 which combined into a half-hourly frequency, and passengers travelling between Bromley and Orpington had the 61 and 208. Plus some 261 journeys aswell to Green Street Green at the busiest time. |
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Post by buspete on Mar 23, 2021 1:25:22 GMT
I agree at the time when the network was developed, it seems bonkers it didn’t continue to Bromley Town Centre. However the 358 is a lot better service than the R1. Don't forget that when the R1 started, it used small "bread-van" minibuses which would have been overwhelmed by the passenger numbers in Bromley, especially if there hadn't been a bus to Bromley Common for a while. Besides Bromley to Green Street Green had the 361 and 706 which combined into a half-hourly frequency, and passengers travelling between Bromley and Orpington had the 61 and 208. I know those bread wagons, were pretty pokey. If the R1 did go to Bromley it would have made a useful link for being in Farnborough to go to Bromley, I read somewhere the 706 was notoriously unreliable and the 361 just an hourly service. The ‘bread wagons’ seems to me to be unsuitable for the R1 was there nothing more suitable at the time? I do agree with the size of R1 it would be easy to come overwhelmed at Bromley, so would therefore be unsuitable. So I wonder if the old R1 that went to Bromley Common was running today and with the vehicle used on the route today (Enviro200) if it would now be suitable to go into Bromley Town Centre? The best solution is what is running today and thar is the 361. |
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