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Post by bertrell on Dec 12, 2020 10:29:51 GMT
Clearly if one of the services to Watford was going to be withdrawn it'd have to be the 258 given that 142 provides many more unique links if looking at public transport as a whole (ref London Overground and 258). But I'm sure that removing the 258 from Watford nonetheless would meet with a lot of opposition. The idea of sending 258 to Wembley is certainly interesting! Some of the side roads in Wembley would be very difficult to be served by a DD bus. Easy, Just move further up East towards Wembley Triangle. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 12, 2020 12:16:44 GMT
Clearly if one of the services to Watford was going to be withdrawn it'd have to be the 258 given that 142 provides many more unique links if looking at public transport as a whole (ref London Overground and 258). But I'm sure that removing the 258 from Watford nonetheless would meet with a lot of opposition. The idea of sending 258 to Wembley is certainly interesting! As an outsider, my issue would be actually relying on the 142 alone to serve those by bus given it has contend with a lot of heavy traffic south of Canons Corner so keeping the 258 as it is would cover that somewhat. The Overground is there but doesn't cover all of the 258 and the times I've been along there (last trip was last year), both buses still had decent loadings despite the presence of the Overground. The other issue, again from an outsider, is the H17 and why the need to remove it in place of a longer route that is likely more prone to reliability problems. It's been a while since I rode the H17 but the times I've been in Harrow (last occasion was just before lockdown 2), loadings didn't reflect a withdrawal even despite the pandemic and before pandemic, loadings were generally quite busy so if I was a H17, which I stress I'm not, I'd rather the route stay intact but given the capacity increase instead - I mean, the Overground already links Harrow & Wealdstone with Wembley Central and I can't see much demand for Harrow Weald or Bushey from Wembley or Sudbury myself? |
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Post by COBO on Dec 13, 2020 0:09:57 GMT
Hmm 🤔 interesting.
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 13, 2020 0:15:59 GMT
If anything, the Watford section needs more capacity, not less. Does it? I’ve always thought it was overbussed. |
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Post by COBO on Dec 13, 2020 1:24:02 GMT
TfL says that are thinking about removing the 258 from Watford because it goes to the same places as the Overground but there thinking of rerouting it to Wembley which is also served by the Overground and also goes to Harrow & Wealdstone.
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Post by ian on Dec 13, 2020 8:30:34 GMT
I found it interesting that 'North of Bushey Heath, the average peak hour load on route 258 is 17 passengers per double deck bus'. I wouldn't have thought that was that bad towards a terminus compared to some routes? I'm not sure what the comparative figures are.
I guess one 'elephant in the room' is the loss of Herts CC funding, which did provoke a flurry of speculation around that time, and perhaps has subsequently contributed to changes around 292/384, 20/167.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 13, 2020 9:10:40 GMT
I found it interesting that 'North of Bushey Heath, the average peak hour load on route 258 is 17 passengers per double deck bus'. I wouldn't have thought that was that bad towards a terminus compared to some routes? I'm not sure what the comparative figures are. I guess one 'elephant in the room' is the loss of Herts CC funding, which did provoke a flurry of speculation around that time, and perhaps has subsequently contributed to changes around 292/384, 20/167. 20/167 are in Essex not Herts but loss of funding is still a factor. |
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Post by ian on Dec 13, 2020 12:32:36 GMT
(Yes, that's what I meant - too rapid wording).
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Post by ADH45258 on Dec 14, 2020 14:47:53 GMT
If anything, the Watford section needs more capacity, not less. Does it? I’ve always thought it was overbussed. A reduction might be fine off peak, but the 142/258 can get very crowded towards Watford in the AM peaks, and towards Stanmore/Harrow in the PM peaks - a BT driver on this forum has often mentioned having to leave many passengers behind at Watford, when discussing these routes. The 258 also has a lot of school traffic, particularly to serve schools in Bushey, plus Harrow College. I think these proposals could only go ahead if the 142 gets a frequency increase, even if only in the peaks. It might also be useful if the 258 were to terminate at Bushey Station, rather than Bushey Heath. The stop outside the station towards Harrow has enough space for 2 buses, so could partly be used as a stand. It also doesn't help that the 142 suffers quite badly from reliability issues, due to the length and traffic hotspots at Watford, Edgware and Brent Cross. If the 142 becomes the only TFL route to Watford, it might even be worth splitting at Edgware. The 292 has often been discussed in replacing the 142 to Brent Cross, but I don't think 3bhp would be enough, and is unlikely to be increased at the Borehamwood end. One option could be to reroute the 32 (with increased frequency) via the 142/189 to serve Brent Cross shopping centre, perhaps with the 16 extended to West Hendon or Colindale in place if needed. |
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 14, 2020 15:27:04 GMT
If anything, the Watford section needs more capacity, not less. Does it? I’ve always thought it was overbussed. Watford itself has plenty of local routes, it's not overbussed, but the 258 finishing in Bushey is no good for anyone. It would put a lot more pressure on the 142 unless it's a hint for people to switch to the Overground... This "Bus Driver's Son" is off to a flying start with his reforms so far  |
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Post by kmkcheng on Dec 14, 2020 15:28:38 GMT
As I live on the 142/258 route in Bushey, I personally would be against the 258 withdrawal. The only journey the overground and 258 commonly provide is Bushey/Watford to Wealdstone. The overground doesn’t serve Harrow Weald or Harrow Town Centre, which are 2 major objectives of passengers to and from Watford and Bushey. It is not just peaks that the 258 is busy as shopping hours can be standing room only on the 258 between Harrow and Watford, as many residents of Harrow prefer shopping in Watford rather than Harrow itself
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Post by ADH45258 on Dec 14, 2020 15:37:06 GMT
If these proposals go to consultation stage, I think it would likely be a similae situation and outcome to the Dartford consulation. TFL had planned to keep only one TFL route going to Bluewater, and now similarly with Watford, though I think the plans could be cancelled due to local opposition.
I'm not sure the 395/H17 proposals are worthwhile either? Does the current H17 need extra capacity, and would DDs even fit along the full route? Very few new links would be created, with the 182 already operating between Harrow Weald and Wembley via Sudbury.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 14, 2020 18:37:02 GMT
If these proposals go to consultation stage, I think it would likely be a similae situation and outcome to the Dartford consulation. TFL had planned to keep only one TFL route going to Bluewater, and now similarly with Watford, though I think the plans could be cancelled due to local opposition. I'm not sure the 395/H17 proposals are worthwhile either? Does the current H17 need extra capacity, and would DDs even fit along the full route? Very few new links would be created, with the 182 already operating between Harrow Weald and Wembley via Sudbury. As I mentioned previously, although I’m not local, my own observations saw quite a number of very busy H17’s pre Covid including a journey I did which was rammed. The last time I was in Harrow before the second lockdown, the H17’s were doing ok still though not as busy before. I think simply double decking the H17 (subject to route test) and leaving the other routes alone would be better than the proposal in the paper. |
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Post by TE920 on Dec 14, 2020 19:37:10 GMT
Clearly if one of the services to Watford was going to be withdrawn it'd have to be the 258 given that 142 provides many more unique links if looking at public transport as a whole (ref London Overground and 258). But I'm sure that removing the 258 from Watford nonetheless would meet with a lot of opposition. The idea of sending 258 to Wembley is certainly interesting! Some of the side roads in Wembley would be very difficult to be served by a DD bus. I have done it myself in a DD and not an issue |
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Post by TE920 on Dec 14, 2020 19:42:02 GMT
As I live on the 142/258 route in Bushey, I personally would be against the 258 withdrawal. The only journey the overground and 258 commonly provide is Bushey/Watford to Wealdstone. The overground doesn’t serve Harrow Weald or Harrow Town Centre, which are 2 major objectives of passengers to and from Watford and Bushey. It is not just peaks that the 258 is busy as shopping hours can be standing room only on the 258 between Harrow and Watford, as many residents of Harrow prefer shopping in Watford rather than Harrow itself I live in Harrow Weald and seeing the 258 being withdraw is probably a bad idea! That bus gets so overcrowded, and for it to terminate in bushey would be crazy as it is lol. However, i like the sound of the southern extension of the route but can’t have both |
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