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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 29, 2021 12:40:08 GMT
Why so? I think it's probably one of the ideas more likely to actually progress given the scale of new developments in the area. There are also already proposals in the works for a BRT scheme between Abbey Wood and Woolwich You mean the same “rapid” bus scheme they were talking about over a decade ago? We were given the 472 instead LOL. No bus around here will be rapid without causing traffic misery for regular buses and other road users. Once you get to Charlton and beyond, the mainly Victorian roads (naturally) become very narrow. I don’t want a rapid transit. I just want bus priority, reliability and comfort on the existing services. Besides, I can’t take ideas about a rapid anything through Woolwich seriously unless something is done to stop queues for the Woolwich ferry spilling across and blocking the roundabout on the main road. There are simpler things that could be done now to improve traffic flows, before spending money on a bus service with fancy infrastructure. I don't think BRTs will take off in London until they get the only one we have right. The traffic around the retail parks in the Charlton area contribute so much traffic it's unreal. Even little things like cars getting out of the Primark there, then needing to forcibly exit heading left to loop the road, but then can't loop the road without causing a block is causing huge issues. Any BRT would just wind up getting stuck in that mess. Then as you mention, the queues for the ferry can get ridiculous, even when the ferry isn't even in operation as the lack of adequate signage on its approach means many cars just wind up there and are forced to U turn to head to the Blackwall Tunnel instead. It's just ridiculous. For a proper bus rapid transit, we need busways, priority signalling, bus lanes, specialised stops to deal with high flows of people and open boarding. Now while LTs on the ELT brought open boarding, that's now gone out the window and I have to say, the open boarding on the LTs was the best thing to ever happen to those routes. I'd really love to see someone unfamiliar with this area to go down Ilford Lane and determine if a bus rapid transit route could realistically pass through there as rapid transit, or just a standard bus route that gets stuck in traffic.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 29, 2021 22:38:21 GMT
Why so? I think it's probably one of the ideas more likely to actually progress given the scale of new developments in the area. There are also already proposals in the works for a BRT scheme between Abbey Wood and Woolwich You mean the same “rapid” bus scheme they were talking about over a decade ago? We were given the 472 instead LOL. No bus around here will be rapid without causing traffic misery for regular buses and other road users. Once you get to Charlton and beyond, the mainly Victorian roads (naturally) become very narrow. I don’t want a rapid transit. I just want bus priority, reliability and comfort on the existing services. Besides, I can’t take ideas about a rapid anything through Woolwich seriously unless something is done to stop queues for the Woolwich ferry spilling across and blocking the roundabout on the main road. There are simpler things that could be done now to improve traffic flows, before spending money on a bus service with fancy infrastructure. Whilst I agree that not building Crossrail through to Ebbsfleet is a huge missed opportunity, the consultation is very poorly presented and constructed. I also wonder about the viability of a rapid bus transit scheme from Ebbsfleet or wherever in Kent to Abbey Wood. No matter how fast it is, it wouldn’t be any quicker than having a shorter bus ride to a local South Eastern/Thameslink station on the North Kent line into Abbey Wood. Many of those stations are already well served by Arriva’s excellent Fast track services. Perhaps they and KCC should instead focus on lobbying for better connections between Ebbsfleet and Northfleet? For all the fanfare around Ebbsfleet Garden City (a legacy from the Cameron/Osborne years), it seems that it isn’t getting the level of connectivity that was envisaged. Of course, the one factor that could swing Crossrail further into Kent and see a shift in SouthEastern and Thameslink frequencies is the London Resort. If that park gets approval, a Crossrail extension may be back on the table with private and potentially government investment for the work. The resort went to stage 2 of its planning application yesterday. Early days, but the project isn’t completely dead in the water: infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/BC080001/BC080001-000805-LONR%20-%20Notification%20of%20Decision%20to%20Accept%20Application%20-%2028%20January%202021.pdfI gather the proposed 'BRT' is more a package of measures, especially around bus priority, like you suggest are useful (and I agree) - but the way to get funding and publicity for these sorts of projects requires them to be portrayed to politicans and the public as 'sexy' and 'exciting' - calling it a rapid bus does that a bit more than just saying new bus lanes. I'm not 100% convinced if a BRT between Abbey Wood and Ebbsfleet would work but I would not be at all surprised to see it pursued. Though the Ebbsfleet development does seem a bit of a white elephant. I walked round there a couple months ago and despite all the talk it just appaeared to be empty land
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Post by route53 on Jan 30, 2021 9:47:52 GMT
The consultation is very pie in the sky in my opinion, and it’s not taking into account a post Covid world/economy.
I can see that the old chestnut of getting Thameslink to stop at Erith & Belvedere has risen again, and I agree, but I’d swap out Plumstead, Slade Green and the shacks between Dartford, Greenhithe & Gravesend, there has been a massive growth in Belvedere & Erith, but this service needs less stations not more, it’s slow enough as it is.
I would extend the CX to Dartford service to Gravesend, going Gravesend and Greenhithe 4tph to Abbey Wood, or if the Woolwich line loses Charing Cross trains, then the Thameslink could be rerouted via Blackheath & Lewisham then fast to London Bridge, then the Greenwich Line can have 6tph to Cannon Street, 2tph of those originating from Gravesend.
For all this talk of a theme park in Northfleet and a new garden city at Ebbsfleet it’s rather quiet down there and does seem to be a white elephant, three lockdowns and numerous restrictions have dented the economy massively so don’t hold your breath on any CrossRail extension or BRT system any time soon, the best thing that can happen at this point is a timetable change to the Woolwich line
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jan 30, 2021 10:30:58 GMT
You mean the same “rapid” bus scheme they were talking about over a decade ago? We were given the 472 instead LOL. No bus around here will be rapid without causing traffic misery for regular buses and other road users. Once you get to Charlton and beyond, the mainly Victorian roads (naturally) become very narrow. I don’t want a rapid transit. I just want bus priority, reliability and comfort on the existing services. Besides, I can’t take ideas about a rapid anything through Woolwich seriously unless something is done to stop queues for the Woolwich ferry spilling across and blocking the roundabout on the main road. There are simpler things that could be done now to improve traffic flows, before spending money on a bus service with fancy infrastructure. I don't think BRTs will take off in London until they get the only one we have right. The traffic around the retail parks in the Charlton area contribute so much traffic it's unreal. Even little things like cars getting out of the Primark there, then needing to forcibly exit heading left to loop the road, but then can't loop the road without causing a block is causing huge issues. Any BRT would just wind up getting stuck in that mess. Then as you mention, the queues for the ferry can get ridiculous, even when the ferry isn't even in operation as the lack of adequate signage on its approach means many cars just wind up there and are forced to U turn to head to the Blackwall Tunnel instead. It's just ridiculous. For a proper bus rapid transit, we need busways, priority signalling, bus lanes, specialised stops to deal with high flows of people and open boarding. Now while LTs on the ELT brought open boarding, that's now gone out the window and I have to say, the open boarding on the LTs was the best thing to ever happen to those routes. I'd really love to see someone unfamiliar with this area to go down Ilford Lane and determine if a bus rapid transit route could realistically pass through there as rapid transit, or just a standard bus route that gets stuck in traffic. I'd also suggest the way the ELs are operated, with all the dwelling at stops along the route to "even out the frequency," so the operator can get their EWT money, hardly bodes well for them being "Rapid Transport"
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