|
Post by snowman on Feb 4, 2021 20:04:48 GMT
I see there is expected to be another Beast from the East starting Sunday Don’t yet know how snowy this will be for London area, but parts of the country look as though they will get drifting snow. Watch this space. Looks like next week onwards could be a decent chance of snow. Forecast at present in North Kent is snow from early hours of Sunday am and then on and off into mid week. I’m nights on Sunday so hoping I’ll have an interesting journey to work. Will probably try and use the bus , as my experience of trying to use trains in the snow aren’t good (unless I use SE High Speed which is overhead power) When we had 7-10cm of snow recently I had to go out, it was 8am on a Sunday so negligible traffic, and being -2c nothing was melting, but sensibly we have winter tyres on one car as there are hills around here, no problems going up or down hills, actually shocked myself when I glanced at speedo and discovered I was doing 45mph on a snow covered winding B road. The snow had made everything virtually silent, and winter tyres gripped like they were on tarmac. Generally the only people who get their vehicles stuck are those that have summer tyres (not designed for cold rain either), rather than 4 season (all season) or winter tyres. Or they don’t know how to use manual overrides on gearboxes, so just floor it hoping a spinning wheel will miraculously bite the snow. Remember snow will sit on a salted road, so if no one drives up a hill, the salt never mixes in which is why always need a proportion of vehicles without summer tyres to clear the road (or bus route).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 20:09:20 GMT
Pinch of salt maybe, but lots of models agreeing it seems. Almost 3 years to the day from the last beast from the east! I do enjoy a good old snow day
Local roads will be interesting with less people out and about!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 20:26:04 GMT
Looks like next week onwards could be a decent chance of snow. Forecast at present in North Kent is snow from early hours of Sunday am and then on and off into mid week. I’m nights on Sunday so hoping I’ll have an interesting journey to work. Will probably try and use the bus , as my experience of trying to use trains in the snow aren’t good (unless I use SE High Speed which is overhead power) When we had 7-10cm of snow recently I had to go out, it was 8am on a Sunday so negligible traffic, and being -2c nothing was melting, but sensibly we have winter tyres on one car as there are hills around here, no problems going up or down hills, actually shocked myself when I glanced at speedo and discovered I was doing 45mph on a snow covered winding B road. The snow had made everything virtually silent, and winter tyres gripped like they were on tarmac. Generally the only people who get their vehicles stuck are those that have summer tyres (not designed for cold rain either), rather than 4 season (all season) or winter tyres. Or they don’t know how to use manual overrides on gearboxes, so just floor it hoping a spinning wheel will miraculously bite the snow. Remember snow will sit on a salted road, so if no one drives up a hill, the salt never mixes in which is why always need a proportion of vehicles without summer tyres to clear the road (or bus route). I do like the snow. But as ever, there is a chance none of this will actually happen. Although long range forecasts all saying cold in any case, so I’m sure snow will come at some point , this weekend or during the week ahead.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 4, 2021 23:39:37 GMT
Looks like next week onwards could be a decent chance of snow. Forecast at present in North Kent is snow from early hours of Sunday am and then on and off into mid week. I’m nights on Sunday so hoping I’ll have an interesting journey to work. Will probably try and use the bus , as my experience of trying to use trains in the snow aren’t good (unless I use SE High Speed which is overhead power) When we had 7-10cm of snow recently I had to go out, it was 8am on a Sunday so negligible traffic, and being -2c nothing was melting, but sensibly we have winter tyres on one car as there are hills around here, no problems going up or down hills, actually shocked myself when I glanced at speedo and discovered I was doing 45mph on a snow covered winding B road. The snow had made everything virtually silent, and winter tyres gripped like they were on tarmac. Generally the only people who get their vehicles stuck are those that have summer tyres (not designed for cold rain either), rather than 4 season (all season) or winter tyres. Or they don’t know how to use manual overrides on gearboxes, so just floor it hoping a spinning wheel will miraculously bite the snow. Remember snow will sit on a salted road, so if no one drives up a hill, the salt never mixes in which is why always need a proportion of vehicles without summer tyres to clear the road (or bus route). Well said, expert advice from the snowman, seen it many times with people just flooring it and going no where and not using common sense. When I was taught to drive in the 90's even though it was not snowing, was told many of these things, and IIRC may be in the highway code.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 5, 2021 0:00:40 GMT
Pinch of salt maybe, but lots of models agreeing it seems. You'll need more than a pinch for the roads
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 7:01:53 GMT
Well my forecast in Dartford is heavy snow from midnight Sunday, all day Sunday, then lighter snow all week on and off until Thursday. The weather forums are largely debating the standard “SE and London will miss the snow” pessimism of course and my in built pessimism warns me that could still be the case.
And lockdown in the snow won’t be great.
Nonetheless could be interesting for the buses and how they could cope. I hope the 492 , 89 and 108 battle on no matter what, I think I’ll need those routes to get me to work Sunday night.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Feb 5, 2021 7:40:40 GMT
A question I have always had - what tyres do buses use? Can’t be summer ones for sure and don’t think they are fitted with proper winter tyres given it barely snows in london
|
|
|
Post by ianhardy on Feb 5, 2021 8:25:18 GMT
Someone I knew who was a Met Officer in the Royal Navy said that any weather forecast for more than 3 days in the future is not worth taking any notice of as it is highly likely to be incorrect.
The only really accurate weather forecast is the one for yesterday, as a weather forecast is a best guess using what the weather is now and and then looking at what has happened previously in similar conditions.
Why a forecast can be incorrect is there is an something that creates an unexpected increase of temperature, e.g. an accident on the M25 because it causes queues of traffic, those vehicles will warm up the local area as they aren't moving very quickly and that increase in temperature will change what happens to the weather which the forecasting model will not know about.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 5, 2021 11:26:29 GMT
A question I have always had - what tyres do buses use? Can’t be summer ones for sure and don’t think they are fitted with proper winter tyres given it barely snows in london Standard summer tyres. At times some do get the Mud and Snow, but it is rare and feel many of the tyre contractors fit these to clear away 'old stock' that cannot be sold and getting near the 2 year date from manufacture they tend to use.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Feb 5, 2021 16:40:40 GMT
A question I have always had - what tyres do buses use? Can’t be summer ones for sure and don’t think they are fitted with proper winter tyres given it barely snows in london Standard summer tyres. At times some do get the Mud and Snow, but it is rare and feel many of the tyre contractors fit these to clear away 'old stock' that cannot be sold and getting near the 2 year date from manufacture they tend to use. Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better)
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Feb 5, 2021 17:22:45 GMT
Standard summer tyres. At times some do get the Mud and Snow, but it is rare and feel many of the tyre contractors fit these to clear away 'old stock' that cannot be sold and getting near the 2 year date from manufacture they tend to use. Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better) Cars come with summer tyres (and increasingly low resistance or Eco summer tyres). The reason is WLTP tests are done at +23c and these tyres reduce CO2 and marginally increase mpg (at test temperature). But they are a poor default choice for all year use. What many people now do (usually when worn out a set of tyres) is fit all season tyres, these have the 3PMSF (3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol), they are optimised for about -5c to +25c and will of course still work outside that range. 5 years ago there were very few all season tyres. Their advantage is they work all year even in light snow, which avoids a seasonal change in Autumn and Spring The problem recently is that since manufacturers have introduced all season tyres, the latest generation of summer tyres are optimised for a higher temperature, many get hard and not that grippy below about +10c (so they don't grip well in cold rain either). Eco summer tyres tend to be virtually useless below +5c Some people are wrongly under the impression winter tyres are just snow tyres, in fact they perform better than summer temperatures below +7c (nearer +10c in wet, +5c in dry), and are quite happy if it is +15c. Obviously even in south of UK it is normally below +15c from November to March. For clarity winter tyres in UK are normal ones (for use below +15c), not the Nordic ones designed for areas that see months of snow and sub zero temperature (no one in UK is going to fit those) I think Addison Lee use all season tyres as standard as do most supermarkets on their delivery vans. Lots of couriers also do as getting stuck in snow wastes too much time. They are now available for trucks and buses. It is a mystery why anyone in UK would now choose modern summer tyres as a replacement set (although might save marginally on cost). You can usually spot all season (and winter) tyres on cars and vans as the grip pattern is diagonal (often a big V shape), whereas summer tyres have longtitudal grooves. Bus and truck tyres tend to have zig zag diagonal grooves as they are physically bigger. These big grooves are called sipes and collect snow (which is very good at gripping snow). Any modern vehicle with a traction control and ABS is designed to work with these tyres so no need to be scared to go out in.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Feb 5, 2021 20:59:25 GMT
Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better) Cars come with summer tyres (and increasingly low resistance or Eco summer tyres). The reason is WLTP tests are done at +23c and these tyres reduce CO2 and marginally increase mpg (at test temperature). But they are a poor default choice for all year use. What many people now do (usually when worn out a set of tyres) is fit all season tyres, these have the 3PMSF (3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol), they are optimised for about -5c to +25c and will of course still work outside that range. 5 years ago there were very few all season tyres. Their advantage is they work all year even in light snow, which avoids a seasonal change in Autumn and Spring The problem recently is that since manufacturers have introduced all season tyres, the latest generation of summer tyres are optimised for a higher temperature, many get hard and not that grippy below about +10c (so they don't grip well in cold rain either). Eco summer tyres tend to be virtually useless below +5c Some people are wrongly under the impression winter tyres are just snow tyres, in fact they perform better than summer temperatures below +7c (nearer +10c in wet, +5c in dry), and are quite happy if it is +15c. Obviously even in south of UK it is normally below +15c from November to March. For clarity winter tyres in UK are normal ones (for use below +15c), not the Nordic ones designed for areas that see months of snow and sub zero temperature (no one in UK is going to fit those) I think Addison Lee use all season tyres as standard as do most supermarkets on their delivery vans. Lots of couriers also do as getting stuck in snow wastes too much time. They are now available for trucks and buses. It is a mystery why anyone in UK would now choose modern summer tyres as a replacement set (although might save marginally on cost). You can usually spot all season (and winter) tyres on cars and vans as the grip pattern is diagonal (often a big V shape), whereas summer tyres have longtitudal grooves. Bus and truck tyres tend to have zig zag diagonal grooves as they are physically bigger. These big grooves are called sipes and collect snow (which is very good at gripping snow). Any modern vehicle with a traction control and ABS is designed to work with these tyres so no need to be scared to go out in. Thanks - the technical details are very helpful 😀 will give it more background reading when I have time
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 6, 2021 1:32:31 GMT
Standard summer tyres. At times some do get the Mud and Snow, but it is rare and feel many of the tyre contractors fit these to clear away 'old stock' that cannot be sold and getting near the 2 year date from manufacture they tend to use. Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better) It is not as bad as people make it out to be. Driven on snow many times, with snow tyres and even with buses.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 6, 2021 1:53:37 GMT
Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better) Cars come with summer tyres (and increasingly low resistance or Eco summer tyres). The reason is WLTP tests are done at +23c and these tyres reduce CO2 and marginally increase mpg (at test temperature). But they are a poor default choice for all year use. What many people now do (usually when worn out a set of tyres) is fit all season tyres, these have the 3PMSF (3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol), they are optimised for about -5c to +25c and will of course still work outside that range. 5 years ago there were very few all season tyres. Their advantage is they work all year even in light snow, which avoids a seasonal change in Autumn and Spring The problem recently is that since manufacturers have introduced all season tyres, the latest generation of summer tyres are optimised for a higher temperature, many get hard and not that grippy below about +10c (so they don't grip well in cold rain either). Eco summer tyres tend to be virtually useless below +5c Some people are wrongly under the impression winter tyres are just snow tyres, in fact they perform better than summer temperatures below +7c (nearer +10c in wet, +5c in dry), and are quite happy if it is +15c. Obviously even in south of UK it is normally below +15c from November to March. For clarity winter tyres in UK are normal ones (for use below +15c), not the Nordic ones designed for areas that see months of snow and sub zero temperature (no one in UK is going to fit those) I think Addison Lee use all season tyres as standard as do most supermarkets on their delivery vans. Lots of couriers also do as getting stuck in snow wastes too much time. They are now available for trucks and buses. It is a mystery why anyone in UK would now choose modern summer tyres as a replacement set (although might save marginally on cost). You can usually spot all season (and winter) tyres on cars and vans as the grip pattern is diagonal (often a big V shape), whereas summer tyres have longtitudal grooves. Bus and truck tyres tend to have zig zag diagonal grooves as they are physically bigger. These big grooves are called sipes and collect snow (which is very good at gripping snow). Any modern vehicle with a traction control and ABS is designed to work with these tyres so no need to be scared to go out in. Winter tyres are a must over the cold months of the year in places like Germany. This is due to the compound they are made of as described above better at lower temperatures. Downside of running winter tyres in the summer is they wear down very fast and also would use more mpg.
|
|
|
Post by ServerKing on Feb 6, 2021 15:39:36 GMT
Stupid one from me but doesn’t it make for a risky operation in a snowy environment? I am a new driver so as soon as I see snow forecast don’t take the car out (of course I know it’s for 1-2 days in a year but keen to know better) It is not as bad as people make it out to be. Driven on snow many times, with snow tyres and even with buses. The worst thing to do is rev too much and brake too sharply. Driving in virgin or fresh snow is good, its when it has melted and turned to ice things get tricky. Let's see what happens with the W3, W7, 144, 184 if snow gets too much around Alexandra Park and Muswell Hill. I imagine some parts in South London (Knights Hill and the 468, Anerley and Upper Norwood, and the 403 and 466 routes) might be tricky in the snow depending on if the BBC and Daily Express hysteria materialises tonight snow from midnight, all the way to Monday evening apparently
|
|