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Post by vjaska on Apr 10, 2021 16:36:09 GMT
But it wouldn’t of made much financial saving - it takes 5-10 minutes max even at the worse of times due to Brixton Hill having bus lanes in both directions to make it to the garage and if cut back, people will start moaning about buses running dead to & from the garage in the same way they moan about dead running buses along Brighton Road to & from Croydon Agreed, whenever I have waited for a bus outside Brixton Station the stop towards Streatham Hill is always super busy and routes like the 45 & 59 manage more local crowds going down Brixton Hill while the remaining 6 (109, 118, 133, 159, 250, 333) are more for crowds going towards Streatham. I did think the freq reduction on the 118 was quite retrogade as the 118 I have always found to be very busy. As for the Brixton Hill corridor, I can't see anything really get pulled other than possibly something to do with the 133 & 333 and I do hope the 333 does not go as it's links on the northern section are very unique whilst the 133 punches 8.3 million every year. Comparatively in the past 10 years the 333 has only made a net loss of passengers by about 150000. The 118 frequency reduction was laughable - back in the 90's, it was a quiet route but during the 00's, demand picked up rapidly and it really should of made it to every 10 minutes by now. It's still got hope on it's side that TfL reverses it's cut as it runs into an Outer London borough for a chunk of the route. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 10, 2021 17:00:03 GMT
Is the 118 leaving people behind? If not then the freq will not be increased now. The 201 helps it from Morden to Mitcham and there is no shortage of support between Streatham and Brixton.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 17:22:46 GMT
Is the 118 leaving people behind? If not then the freq will not be increased now. The 201 helps it from Morden to Mitcham and there is no shortage of support between Streatham and Brixton. But that large solo section between Mitcham and Streatham Vale is okay, right? |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 10, 2021 18:12:23 GMT
Is the 118 leaving people behind? If not then the freq will not be increased now. The 201 helps it from Morden to Mitcham and there is no shortage of support between Streatham and Brixton. We in a pandemic so no not right now plus you don't base a frequency increase on leaving people behind as you always need some spare capacity but having used it many times from Mitcham as I prefer not having to sit on a 355 due to traffic and crowds during peaks and outside peaks and it can load very heavily especially on the solo section referenced by @busenthusiast56 I've lost count the amount of times we've turned the corner onto Rowan Road to find a crowd of people waiting for the bus, particularly northbound. The 60 is also busy over this section funnily enough but at least saw a frequency increase not long ago. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 10, 2021 18:19:58 GMT
Is the 118 leaving people behind? If not then the freq will not be increased now. The 201 helps it from Morden to Mitcham and there is no shortage of support between Streatham and Brixton. But that large solo section between Mitcham and Streatham Vale is okay, right? I it struggled in sure it would have gone up like when the 127, 130, 154, 249, 466 when up during the Croydon consultation a couple of years ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 18:34:47 GMT
But that large solo section between Mitcham and Streatham Vale is okay, right? I it struggled in sure it would have gone up like when the 127, 130, 154, 249, 466 when up during the Croydon consultation a couple of years ago. I’m sure it would have but I’m just making the point that that section is busy. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 10, 2021 20:23:25 GMT
But that large solo section between Mitcham and Streatham Vale is okay, right? I it struggled in sure it would have gone up like when the 127, 130, 154, 249, 466 when up during the Croydon consultation a couple of years ago. No because those increase were for routes that entered the borough of Croydon - all those routes you mention plus the 432 all run into the borough of Croydon. The 118 doesn't so would never of been included |
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Post by danorak on Apr 10, 2021 20:33:31 GMT
But it wouldn’t of made much financial saving - it takes 5-10 minutes max even at the worse of times due to Brixton Hill having bus lanes in both directions to make it to the garage and if cut back, people will start moaning about buses running dead to & from the garage in the same way they moan about dead running buses along Brighton Road to & from Croydon Agreed, whenever I have waited for a bus outside Brixton Station the stop towards Streatham Hill is always super busy and routes like the 45 & 59 manage more local crowds going down Brixton Hill while the remaining 6 (109, 118, 133, 159, 250, 333) are more for crowds going towards Streatham. I did think the freq reduction on the 118 was quite retrogade as the 118 I have always found to be very busy. As for the Brixton Hill corridor, I can't see anything really get pulled other than possibly something to do with the 133 & 333 and I do hope the 333 does not go as it's links on the northern section are very unique whilst the 133 punches 8.3 million every year. Comparatively in the past 10 years the 333 has only made a net loss of passengers by about 150000. I'd personally be amazed if something didn't get pulled out of Brixton Hill and Streatham High Road when TfL look to make cuts. There are 12 frequent buses along Streatham High Road and 8 along Brixton Hill. I am struggling to think of many other corridors in London with the same level of provision. I can't - and indeed wouldn't - argue that it's not required but when the beady eye of the bean counters at TfL alight on that, some trimming seems inevitable. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 10, 2021 20:41:38 GMT
Agreed, whenever I have waited for a bus outside Brixton Station the stop towards Streatham Hill is always super busy and routes like the 45 & 59 manage more local crowds going down Brixton Hill while the remaining 6 (109, 118, 133, 159, 250, 333) are more for crowds going towards Streatham. I did think the freq reduction on the 118 was quite retrogade as the 118 I have always found to be very busy. As for the Brixton Hill corridor, I can't see anything really get pulled other than possibly something to do with the 133 & 333 and I do hope the 333 does not go as it's links on the northern section are very unique whilst the 133 punches 8.3 million every year. Comparatively in the past 10 years the 333 has only made a net loss of passengers by about 150000. I'd personally be amazed if something didn't get pulled out of Brixton Hill and Streatham High Road when TfL look to make cuts. There are 12 frequent buses along Streatham High Road and 8 along Brixton Hill. I am struggling to think of many other corridors in London with the same level of provision. I can't - and indeed wouldn't - argue that it's not required but when the beady eye of the bean counters at TfL alight on that, some trimming seems inevitable. If the 133 was to potentially be looked at between Liverpool Street & London Bridge (which I think it seems quite at risk particularly after the Bank proposals) then the 333 could potentially be involved as well, which is what I initially stated. That would be the most likely I would say. But definitely nothing should be removed. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 20:58:41 GMT
Agreed, whenever I have waited for a bus outside Brixton Station the stop towards Streatham Hill is always super busy and routes like the 45 & 59 manage more local crowds going down Brixton Hill while the remaining 6 (109, 118, 133, 159, 250, 333) are more for crowds going towards Streatham. I did think the freq reduction on the 118 was quite retrogade as the 118 I have always found to be very busy. As for the Brixton Hill corridor, I can't see anything really get pulled other than possibly something to do with the 133 & 333 and I do hope the 333 does not go as it's links on the northern section are very unique whilst the 133 punches 8.3 million every year. Comparatively in the past 10 years the 333 has only made a net loss of passengers by about 150000. I'd personally be amazed if something didn't get pulled out of Brixton Hill and Streatham High Road when TfL look to make cuts. There are 12 frequent buses along Streatham High Road and 8 along Brixton Hill. I am struggling to think of many other corridors in London with the same level of provision. I can't - and indeed wouldn't - argue that it's not required but when the beady eye of the bean counters at TfL alight on that, some trimming seems inevitable. I would argue that those routes are necessary to feed huge amounts of passengers to the tube station and beyond. I believe that TfL would be biting the hand that feeds it by cutting clearly well used routes which could ultimately negatively effect the tube station numbers and other onward journeys. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 10, 2021 21:38:30 GMT
I'd personally be amazed if something didn't get pulled out of Brixton Hill and Streatham High Road when TfL look to make cuts. There are 12 frequent buses along Streatham High Road and 8 along Brixton Hill. I am struggling to think of many other corridors in London with the same level of provision. I can't - and indeed wouldn't - argue that it's not required but when the beady eye of the bean counters at TfL alight on that, some trimming seems inevitable. If the 133 was to potentially be looked at between Liverpool Street & London Bridge (which I think it seems quite at risk particularly after the Bank proposals) then the 333 could potentially be involved as well, which is what I initially stated. That would be the most likely I would say. But definitely nothing should be removed. I wonder if the 333 maybe made even more a local service and just run from Tooting Broadway to Stockwell Station. That would free up a space at Elephant which I'm sure tfl will be looking for. The 333 would still do its main job of linking Tooting with Streatham and Brixton, and Brixton Hill with Stockwell with the 133, 155 and 415 plus the slightly less direct 35 and 45 continuing to Elphant from Stockwell and Brixton respectively. Not to mention for the same fare (well actually 5p less) off peak the Northern line. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 10, 2021 22:34:50 GMT
I'd personally be amazed if something didn't get pulled out of Brixton Hill and Streatham High Road when TfL look to make cuts. There are 12 frequent buses along Streatham High Road and 8 along Brixton Hill. I am struggling to think of many other corridors in London with the same level of provision. I can't - and indeed wouldn't - argue that it's not required but when the beady eye of the bean counters at TfL alight on that, some trimming seems inevitable. I would argue that those routes are necessary to feed huge amounts of passengers to the tube station and beyond. I believe that TfL would be biting the hand that feeds it by cutting clearly well used routes which could ultimately negatively effect the tube station numbers and other onward journeys. I think TfL do know this, but go about it in a very obscure way. Within Central London pretty much every station there is walking distance, but cuts in the suburbs tend to happen where a route gets truncated at a station somewhere or gets altered so that it runs to stations. The 104/304 change in East London is a good example of that, it effectively results in the 104 being cut but it just gets sent to a station that's closer to where it'll be cut so these people still feed onto the network. The 262 and 101 cuts taking place also make it to the station, the bit the 366 is left at effectively makes it a corridor where people have to use the bus to get to the train whereas previously chances are they'd be going to Stratford or similar, they now are forced to get the train there instead of getting the 262, but the 262 still feeds its local people to the DLR. The 366 still feeds the people of Gallions Reach to the DLR stations but then doesn't go any further. Then over in West London, the 427 cut will see the route become a shadow of its current self, but will divert to terminate right by Southall Station which feeds people onto the Elizabeth Line there. I think these Central cuts will be mostly focussed in the Central area, but should any take place in the suburbs I think they'll just result in routes being cut to the first major station that they come across. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 23:00:23 GMT
I would argue that those routes are necessary to feed huge amounts of passengers to the tube station and beyond. I believe that TfL would be biting the hand that feeds it by cutting clearly well used routes which could ultimately negatively effect the tube station numbers and other onward journeys. I think TfL do know this, but go about it in a very obscure way. Within Central London pretty much every station there is walking distance, but cuts in the suburbs tend to happen where a route gets truncated at a station somewhere or gets altered so that it runs to stations. The 104/304 change in East London is a good example of that, it effectively results in the 104 being cut but it just gets sent to a station that's closer to where it'll be cut so these people still feed onto the network. The 262 and 101 cuts taking place also make it to the station, the bit the 366 is left at effectively makes it a corridor where people have to use the bus to get to the train whereas previously chances are they'd be going to Stratford or similar, they now are forced to get the train there instead of getting the 262, but the 262 still feeds its local people to the DLR. The 366 still feeds the people of Gallions Reach to the DLR stations but then doesn't go any further. Then over in West London, the 427 cut will see the route become a shadow of its current self, but will divert to terminate right by Southall Station which feeds people onto the Elizabeth Line there. I think these Central cuts will be mostly focussed in the Central area, but should any take place in the suburbs I think they'll just result in routes being cut to the first major station that they come across. It is my opinion that if TfL touches the suburban routes they will be metaphorically shooting themselves dead, they need passengers to get from A to tube or train stations. Removing buses in the suburbs, particularly outer London boroughs would just drive up car use, premium parking around tube stations and ultimately harm TfL more. TfL simply cannot build a service based on non-fare paying kids and OAPs, it needs these 9-5 workers in the suburbs to generate revenue. Yes, people live in central London but ultimately when faced with tube, train or bus I know which one I would take, even for short journeys. Central London routes should be reduced but not removed to support expansions in the suburbs because this is where TfL’s future profit is going to be coming from. I would suggest reintroducing scheduled short workings to better support the network, just looking at the 188, why not have morning/afternoon peaks to and from Waterloo with every other bus continuing to Russell Square. Complicated, maybe, but it would support passengers where the demand is and honestly in this day and age TfL should be able to track where bus passengers are alighting and connecting to other services. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Apr 11, 2021 6:24:20 GMT
If the 133 was to potentially be looked at between Liverpool Street & London Bridge (which I think it seems quite at risk particularly after the Bank proposals) then the 333 could potentially be involved as well, which is what I initially stated. That would be the most likely I would say. But definitely nothing should be removed. I wonder if the 333 maybe made even more a local service and just run from Tooting Broadway to Stockwell Station. That would free up a space at Elephant which I'm sure tfl will be looking for. The 333 would still do its main job of linking Tooting with Streatham and Brixton, and Brixton Hill with Stockwell with the 133, 155 and 415 plus the slightly less direct 35 and 45 continuing to Elphant from Stockwell and Brixton respectively. Not to mention for the same fare (well actually 5p less) off peak the Northern line. Off peak fares have gone up to 1.75 |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 11, 2021 6:49:58 GMT
I wonder if the 333 maybe made even more a local service and just run from Tooting Broadway to Stockwell Station. That would free up a space at Elephant which I'm sure tfl will be looking for. The 333 would still do its main job of linking Tooting with Streatham and Brixton, and Brixton Hill with Stockwell with the 133, 155 and 415 plus the slightly less direct 35 and 45 continuing to Elphant from Stockwell and Brixton respectively. Not to mention for the same fare (well actually 5p less) off peak the Northern line. Off peak fares have gone up to 1.75 Thats interesting as there was little mention of it as I remember us saying that it was slightly bizarre that the tube fare was 5p lower. |
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