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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 12:36:57 GMT
I wonder if the 148 not being awarded yet might be relevant. Always seems to be a useful and successful service but large parts are paralleled by other routes. Bear in mind the following is entirely off the top of my head and I really haven't thought it through! 45 - extended from Elephant to Victoria via 148 53 - withdrawn Elephant to County Hall (boo, hiss, etc) 94 - withdrawn east of Marble Arch and diverted via 148 to Victoria, 507 to Waterloo 211 - rerouted between Victoria and Waterloo via 507 507 - withdrawn Future of the 94 and 148 i think will always depend if the 94 cuts to Marble Arch. If the 94 does cut then I think the temptation would be to merge them. For now thou I think the 148 will be re tendered maybe with a bus or two less an hour. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2021 12:39:22 GMT
All a bit weird why the 396 and Romford Rd are suddenly hot topics. Almost seems a bit of a wind up. Out of curiosity why would the 396 with its MASSIVE PVR OF 5 be cut ? The 396 could be a possibility to cuts and I'm not saying it should be - I wonder whether tfl may look at it. Possibly, you could divert it to Barking bringing new links along Aldborough Road South, and through Seven Kings. The cuts are focused on Central London unless I’m mistaken so why is the 396 mentioned yet again. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 16, 2021 12:58:36 GMT
I wonder if the 148 not being awarded yet might be relevant. Always seems to be a useful and successful service but large parts are paralleled by other routes. Bear in mind the following is entirely off the top of my head and I really haven't thought it through! 45 - extended from Elephant to Victoria via 148 53 - withdrawn Elephant to County Hall (boo, hiss, etc) 94 - withdrawn east of Marble Arch and diverted via 148 to Victoria, 507 to Waterloo 211 - rerouted between Victoria and Waterloo via 507 507 - withdrawn Future of the 94 and 148 i think will always depend if the 94 cuts to Marble Arch. If the 94 does cut then I think the temptation would be to merge them. For now thou I think the 148 will be re tendered maybe with a bus or two less an hour. On the face of it if TfL are planning cuts in Central London it would seem a bit daft to be awarding new contracts for the 148,507 and 521. Assuming the 94 is to be curtailed at Marble Arch that could be withdrawn with the contract and electric buses moving onto the 148 which could be extended to Acton Green and withdrawn between County Hall and Camberwell Green and rerouted into Waterloo Station taxi road. The 12 could be increased slightly to compensate with a same stop interchange outside St Thomas's Hospital. The 211 could then be rerouted via the 507 between Victoria and Waterloo. Maybe the 159 extended to NHG thus maintaining the link to Oxford Street and Regent Street. I'm not sure what, if anything, should replace the 521? Depends on commuter levels post covid. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2021 13:05:37 GMT
Future of the 94 and 148 i think will always depend if the 94 cuts to Marble Arch. If the 94 does cut then I think the temptation would be to merge them. For now thou I think the 148 will be re tendered maybe with a bus or two less an hour. On the face of it if TfL are planning cuts in Central London it would seem a bit daft to be awarding new contracts for the 148,507 and 521. Assuming the 94 is to be curtailed at Marble Arch that could be withdrawn with the contract and electric buses moving onto the 148 which could be extended to Acton Green and withdrawn between County Hall and Camberwell Green and rerouted into Waterloo Station taxi road. The 12 could be increased slightly to compensate with a same stop interchange outside St Thomas's Hospital. The 211 could then be rerouted via the 507 between Victoria and Waterloo. Maybe the 159 extended to NHG thus maintaining the link to Oxford Street and Regent Street. I'm not sure what, if anything, should replace the 521? Depends on commuter levels post covid. Presumably this is what is taking TfL so long to award the 507/521. I assume they are looking at new long term passenger models coupled with this latest announcement to determine what frequencies will be needed for the next contract. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 13:11:57 GMT
Shame they didn't give the 507 and 521 a 2 year extension as it would have given them till 2023 to make a decision on the tender spec.
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Post by ronnie on Jan 16, 2021 21:00:20 GMT
Let’s see what tfl come back with but am sure this forum will have better ideas than whatever tfl does
A few “ideas” from my side:
- 521: drops to every 8-10 min peaks, 10 min all day. No service post 9pm
- 507: same as 521 but can have same ending time as now due to the residential component
- X68, 414, 23: goodbye ....
- 38: every alternate Hackney central short gets taken out. So you halve the shorts and re-distribute the rest of the service
- 19: cut back to Piccadilly Circus and takes the 94’s stand
- 94: cut back to Marble Arch
- 11: cut back to Victoria, 311 introduced as per previous
- 22: back to Piccadilly Circus
- 2: cut back to Portman square
- 74: Paddington basin
- 36: cut back to Paddington along with a pvr reduction
- 205: cut back to marylebone
- 188: back to elephant and castle
- 15: cut back to aldwych
- 68 / 91: cut back to Holborn or aldwych or the old 171 stand
- 168: frequency cut / cut back to Waterloo (341 stand)
- 341: cut back to Holborn (well extended slightly)
- 176: frequency cut?
- 6 or 9: cut back to Trafalgar Square
- frequency cuts on 29, 24, 134, 55, 390, 73, 4, 17
- 21 cut back to Moorgate finsbury square
- 241/388: merged to form a custom house to ash grove route (“crossrail!!!”)
- 159: back to Oxford Circus
- 13: frequency reduction
- 113: cut back to Baker Street
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Post by greg on Jan 16, 2021 21:14:46 GMT
Let’s see what tfl come back with but am sure this forum will have better ideas than whatever tfl does A few “ideas” from my side: - 521: drops to every 8-10 min peaks, 10 min all day. No service post 9pm - 507: same as 521 but can have same ending time as now due to the residential component - X68, 414, 23: goodbye .... - 38: every alternate Hackney central short gets taken out. So you halve the shorts and re-distribute the rest of the service - 19: cut back to Piccadilly Circus and takes the 94’s stand - 94: cut back to Marble Arch - 11: cut back to Victoria, 311 introduced as per previous - 22: back to Piccadilly Circus - 2: cut back to Portman square - 74: Paddington basin - 36: cut back to Paddington along with a pvr reduction - 205: cut back to marylebone - 1: back to elephant and castle - 15: cut back to aldwych - 68 / 91: cut back to Holborn or aldwych or the old 171 stand - 168: frequency cut / cut back to Waterloo (341 stand) - 341: cut back to Holborn (well extended slightly) - 176: frequency cut? - 6 or 9: cut back to Trafalgar Square - frequency cuts on 29, 24, 134, 55, 390, 73, 4, 17 - 21 cut back to Moorgate finsbury square - 241/388: merged to form a custom house to ash grove route (“crossrail!!!”) - 159: back to Oxford Circus - 13: frequency reduction - 113: cut back to Baker Street 2 and the 205 is a very obvious no if you were to live in the area. Marylebone Forecourt heavily relies on the 2 and is infact very busy. The 205 I don’t see happen either since it gets busy starting from Praed Street and is support to the 205. I don’t see the 74 happening at all but it is a reasonable idea. 19 and 94 im sure will just not happen. 94 maybe to Oxford Circus but hopefully not Marble Arch, might aswell just merge it with the 148 and cut the Acton section to be replaced. 22 no because Berkeley Square still needs a bus route even though the area is very quiet so most likely just a frequency reduction 68 / 91 - i wouldnt rule it out the 91 is very quiet and the 68 is duplicated 168 - no definitely Old Kent Road needs the 168 and the 68 duplicates the 168/468 so 168 is not the victim and I also do not see the frequency being cut the 168 has good loads frequency reduction on the 24 is no also it is very busy and i think should get an INCREASE. i agree with everything else but have no knowledge on 4, 11, 17, 21, 311 and 341 |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 21:26:47 GMT
The other thing with tfl now is that they are quite happy to changes routes more then once. The 172 changed in the 2017 and 2019 schemes so I think some of the 2019 changes to routes could be amended again.
Whilst it wouldn't do much for reliability I could see a couple of routes across Holborn joined together. The 1, 68 or 172 could easily be joined and the 168 axed with say the 68 West Norwood to Hampstead Heath with a robust timetable at certain times.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 16, 2021 21:31:38 GMT
Let’s see what tfl come back with but am sure this forum will have better ideas than whatever tfl does A few “ideas” from my side: - 521: drops to every 8-10 min peaks, 10 min all day. No service post 9pm - 507: same as 521 but can have same ending time as now due to the residential component - X68, 414, 23: goodbye .... - 38: every alternate Hackney central short gets taken out. So you halve the shorts and re-distribute the rest of the service - 19: cut back to Piccadilly Circus and takes the 94’s stand - 94: cut back to Marble Arch - 11: cut back to Victoria, 311 introduced as per previous - 22: back to Piccadilly Circus - 2: cut back to Portman square - 74: Paddington basin - 36: cut back to Paddington along with a pvr reduction - 205: cut back to marylebone - 1: back to elephant and castle - 15: cut back to aldwych - 68 / 91: cut back to Holborn or aldwych or the old 171 stand - 168: frequency cut / cut back to Waterloo (341 stand) - 341: cut back to Holborn (well extended slightly) - 176: frequency cut? - 6 or 9: cut back to Trafalgar Square - frequency cuts on 29, 24, 134, 55, 390, 73, 4, 17 - 21 cut back to Moorgate finsbury square - 241/388: merged to form a custom house to ash grove route (“crossrail!!!”) - 159: back to Oxford Circus - 13: frequency reduction - 113: cut back to Baker Street The 414 is likely going to go, we all know that. Everything else seems really overkill however. I see frequency reductions in central London, not anything other than that rly. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 16, 2021 21:49:25 GMT
Let’s see what tfl come back with but am sure this forum will have better ideas than whatever tfl does A few “ideas” from my side: - 521: drops to every 8-10 min peaks, 10 min all day. No service post 9pm - 507: same as 521 but can have same ending time as now due to the residential component - X68, 414, 23: goodbye .... - 38: every alternate Hackney central short gets taken out. So you halve the shorts and re-distribute the rest of the service - 19: cut back to Piccadilly Circus and takes the 94’s stand - 94: cut back to Marble Arch - 11: cut back to Victoria, 311 introduced as per previous - 22: back to Piccadilly Circus - 2: cut back to Portman square - 74: Paddington basin - 36: cut back to Paddington along with a pvr reduction - 205: cut back to marylebone - 1: back to elephant and castle - 15: cut back to aldwych - 68 / 91: cut back to Holborn or aldwych or the old 171 stand - 168: frequency cut / cut back to Waterloo (341 stand) - 341: cut back to Holborn (well extended slightly) - 176: frequency cut? - 6 or 9: cut back to Trafalgar Square - frequency cuts on 29, 24, 134, 55, 390, 73, 4, 17 - 21 cut back to Moorgate finsbury square - 241/388: merged to form a custom house to ash grove route (“crossrail!!!”) - 159: back to Oxford Circus - 13: frequency reduction - 113: cut back to Baker Street The 414 is likely going to go, we all know that. Everything else seems really overkill however. I see frequency reductions in central London, not anything other than that rly. Don't think you will get anywhere near a PVR reduction of 300 with just frequency reductiond |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 21:55:46 GMT
The 414 is likely going to go, we all know that. Everything else seems really overkill however. I see frequency reductions in central London, not anything other than that rly. Don't think you will get anywhere near a PVR reduction of 300 with just frequency reductiond Yes I agree. Sadly that's why tfl won't miss the opportunity to finally cut the 94 and 159 and make a saving in the Holborn/Waterloo area to help get to the 300 PVR cut. I also could see the 47 cut to Canada Water and Jamaica Road left to the 188 and 381 and LB to Shoreditch to the 35, 149, 388. |
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Post by BK15AZR on Jan 16, 2021 22:29:07 GMT
How about withdrawing the 476? There are many duplicates along the route anyway.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 16, 2021 22:36:22 GMT
Let’s see what tfl come back with but am sure this forum will have better ideas than whatever tfl does A few “ideas” from my side: - 521: drops to every 8-10 min peaks, 10 min all day. No service post 9pm - 507: same as 521 but can have same ending time as now due to the residential component - X68, 414, 23: goodbye .... - 38: every alternate Hackney central short gets taken out. So you halve the shorts and re-distribute the rest of the service - 19: cut back to Piccadilly Circus and takes the 94’s stand - 94: cut back to Marble Arch - 11: cut back to Victoria, 311 introduced as per previous - 22: back to Piccadilly Circus - 2: cut back to Portman square - 74: Paddington basin - 36: cut back to Paddington along with a pvr reduction - 205: cut back to marylebone - 1: back to elephant and castle - 15: cut back to aldwych - 68 / 91: cut back to Holborn or aldwych or the old 171 stand - 168: frequency cut / cut back to Waterloo (341 stand) - 341: cut back to Holborn (well extended slightly) - 176: frequency cut? - 6 or 9: cut back to Trafalgar Square - frequency cuts on 29, 24, 134, 55, 390, 73, 4, 17 - 21 cut back to Moorgate finsbury square - 241/388: merged to form a custom house to ash grove route (“crossrail!!!”) - 159: back to Oxford Circus - 13: frequency reduction - 113: cut back to Baker Street Gonna post a few of my ideas tomorrow. They may mirror some changes being proposed.... |
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 16, 2021 22:38:31 GMT
Don't think you will get anywhere near a PVR reduction of 300 with just frequency reductiond Yes I agree. Sadly that's why tfl won't miss the opportunity to finally cut the 94 and 159 and make a saving in the Holborn/Waterloo area to help get to the 300 PVR cut. I also could see the 47 cut to Canada Water and Jamaica Road left to the 188 and 381 and LB to Shoreditch to the 35, 149, 388. If you cut back the top 25 central London routes on current routing to 6bph ... you save around 150 buses ... so some routes will need to have bits lopped off, or routes withdrawn. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2021 22:43:29 GMT
Not sure if stand space would be an issue but the 38 could be cut at all times to Hackney Central with the 56 maintaining the Clapton to Angel link and the 55, 106, 253, 254 probably able to cope along that stretch.
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