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Post by mkay315 on Jul 4, 2021 8:43:41 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls.
Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
Oh I see. Thank for that.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2021 12:28:50 GMT
I think it must have been the ex-292 Ms I saw out on the 82 then in the last couple of years of M operation. Thought the refurb was much more recent than 93 but even c.2001 the carpeted walls felt like an early 90s thing (I first saw them on the J-WHJ Darts on my local 444). I think the moquette had been changed again by then, to a dark grey. I wondered at the time whether Metroline had plans to keep Metrobuses going on the 82 into the 2000s but the low floor revolution was inexorable! M1253 did several years of 149/279 work refurbished to Leaside Travel spec - R/W/B moquette with red grab poles and light grey interior finishes IIRC, not too different to the J-BSH Ls, but with added illuminated Leaside Swans each side of the destination blind - these were latterly blanked out. Metroline retained the 82 (and 113/240/266) in 2000 on the basis of using Ms at first. I think the intention was always to upgrade the routes during the course of the contract, but there wasn't enough money in the kitty at the time for brand new buses. IIRC they gave the 82's Ms a repaint at this point; they had been running in battered allover red from their MTL days. I don't think they got round to refurbing any of them internally - if they did, it would have been with Metroline blue moquette - so any buses that had a grey interior scheme must have been ex-292. Metroline did consider replacing the Ms with ex-Singapore Olympians from their parent company, and brought one bus (AV39) over as a trial, but the cost of converting these for London use proved to be too much. And by 2001 Ken L had been put in charge of the buses with a bigger pot of money, so TfL were able to fund new VPLs for the 82 and 113. I'd forgotten about the Leaside Travel M. Just remembered that in the aftermath of the London Easylink collapse, Arriva TOLST ran part of the emergency operation on the 185 using closed-top Ms - I think these had been refurbished for sightseeing work.
Those TOLST M’s weren’t refurbished or the one I had wasn’t at least as the one I had on the 185 still had its original interior.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 4, 2021 12:39:05 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls.
Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
Others were refurbished at L&C Crawley that were then sent to MTL Gillmoss to enable Arriva to divest that without losing their more modern vehicles at the time. Such Ms were given standard Arriva 1998 moquette.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2021 12:49:21 GMT
Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls. Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
Others were refurbished at L&C Crawley that were then sent to MTL Gillmoss to enable Arriva to divest that without losing their more modern vehicles at the time. Such Ms were given standard Arriva 1998 moquette. The refurbs the M’s got seemed quite basic compared to the 41 L’s at N?
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 4, 2021 13:03:12 GMT
Others were refurbished at L&C Crawley that were then sent to MTL Gillmoss to enable Arriva to divest that without losing their more modern vehicles at the time. Such Ms were given standard Arriva 1998 moquette. The refurbs the M’s got seemed quite basic compared to the 41 L’s at N? They would have had the same moquette at least. Given that Arriva considered their Crawley operation relatively unprofitable in later years while Ken Livingstone was strongly promoting quality, those Ms may well have had a lighter refurb than the Ls. I did ride such a refurb L in 2000 and M in 2002. To digress a bit, there are of course different levels of refurbishment. In June I rode refurbished ex-GA London Volvo B9TLs with Go North East and Lothian Buses. The Go North East one still had yellow grabrails which did look repainted and the Go North East moquette similar to GA London. This moquette had more "squares of cubes" than London and the word Go superimposed a few times on the seats. (This moquette is being phased out on other Go North East refurbs). However, the Lothian one has red seats and cream grabrails (like ex-First/Metroline ones) and is barely recognisable as an ex-London bus, except that it retains its centre door.
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Post by M1199 on Jul 4, 2021 22:46:31 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. At Centrewest, 'Refurbishment' seemed to be dependent on which garage the vehicle was allocated to. After the Firstbus takeover, the majority of M's at X and I think ON received all over red repaints and the yellow band between decks, whereas at UX/AT, they kept their traditional tape grey livery, only receiving a lower deck repaint. I can remember a lot of M's were retrimmed with the red/orange moquette that the Midibuses and early Darts entered service with in the late 80's/early 90's, Seen in the below pic: www.flickr.com/photos/lgeeography/41447082444/in/album-72157696918007375/ - Photo by Lgee Faure Thankfully though, I kept my Misha Black moquette right through until my withdrawal!
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2021 22:47:08 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. Do not know any London examples with any ex LBL companies changing moquette.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2021 22:50:05 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls.
Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
I remember when the 310 got the new corporate Arriva moquette around 1998 and some interior panel changes. It is a shame that other Metro's and Titan's never got done. I recall some L's at [N] being completely refurbished internally. I do not remember any Metroline M's getting the LBL 90's moquette, unless it was Metroline Travel (the private hire arm)
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2021 22:53:10 GMT
Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls.
Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
I think it must have been the ex-292 Ms I saw out on the 82 then in the last couple of years of M operation. Thought the refurb was much more recent than 93 but even c.2001 the carpeted walls felt like an early 90s thing (I first saw them on the J-WHJ Darts on my local 444). I think the moquette had been changed again by then, to a dark grey. I wondered at the time whether Metroline had plans to keep Metrobuses going on the 82 into the 2000s but the low floor revolution was inexorable! M1253 did several years of 149/279 work refurbished to Leaside Travel spec - R/W/B moquette with red grab poles and light grey interior finishes IIRC, not too different to the J-BSH Ls, but with added illuminated Leaside Swans each side of the destination blind - these were latterly blanked out. Carpeted walls started in the late 80's it was to give more of a coach feel to standard buses. LT had them on Metroriders in the 80s and Stariders During the low floor revolution it was a changed again in interiors with different type flooring, walls that were easy clean and seat backs that were easy to change and individual seats instead of bench seats.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2021 22:55:20 GMT
It's the Metro for me hands down. Besides growing up with them and eventually driving them I love the overall sounds of the engine, retarder and axle...somewhat the predecessor of the DB250 in that respect. It's also to me the best looking box shaped decker, especially when they first came out with the black front grills with the surrounding metal frame. I also loved that amongst the 1442 buses built for London Transport M1084-M1105 plus M1442 were fitted with the Cummin unit with M1104 spec'd with a supped up turbo plus a longer gearhold on the kickdown... a predecessor to the euro3 DB250 in that respect. Despite my preference of the Metros I would've loved the opportunity to have tried out the Titan, especially with the hill start function which I reckon I would have regularly use on my last trip before my meal relief/end of shift. I still reckoned I would have preferred the Metro for its Voith transmission. Also, i never really liked the rear of the Titan with that half window, but i do find it interesting that their engines sound a bit like the very early DMSs (with the headlights closer to the middle). You might have liked the one-off Voith boxed Titan T684, I remember riding this on the 374 in Harold Hill and being confused... Video of bus here m.youtube.com/watch?v=43W1brTPu6oI think both the Metrobus and Titan had similar Gardner engines, but I grew up with the Metrobuses on the E1, E2 and 207. Drivers would thrash them on the Uxbridge Road between Hanwell Broadway and Southall They were a great predecessor to the DB250, which I saw from new in Hackney on the 242. West London never saw that many Titans, I think the nearest ones to us were on the 131 near Hampton Court The only Olympians were newer 1990s ones on the 237 with Riverside Bus before Armchair replaced Atlanteans on the 65 and 260 around 1993 That just sounds so wrong on so many levels. Oh my poor ears, it sounds exactly like a Metrobus. It is amazing how the gearbox gives the bus a totally different sound even though it has the same engine. Reminds me of the ZF vs Voith gearboxes on Stagecoach TA's that sounded differently.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 5, 2021 22:57:49 GMT
Hey all Does anyone know if the Metrobuses ever had a refurbishment when they were in service in London or did they maintain it's original D78 stock moquette without boosting it's upholstery. At Centrewest, 'Refurbishment' seemed to be dependent on which garage the vehicle was allocated to. After the Firstbus takeover, the majority of M's at X and I think ON received all over red repaints and the yellow band between decks, whereas at UX/AT, they kept their traditional tape grey livery, only receiving a lower deck repaint. I can remember a lot of M's were retrimmed with the red/orange moquette that the Midibuses and early Darts entered service with in the late 80's/early 90's, Seen in the below pic: www.flickr.com/photos/lgeeography/41447082444/in/album-72157696918007375/ - Photo by Lgee Faure Thankfully though, I kept my Misha Black moquette right through until my withdrawal! I would hardly call a repaint a refurbishment. I am also struggling to remember any ex First London LT Metros that had moquette changed to the red diamond moquette.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 6, 2021 0:05:37 GMT
Metroline refurbished a small batch of Ms when they won the 292 back from BTS in 1993. From memory I think they were fitted with the standard red/white/blue moquette that all London Buses subsidiaries were using at the time, as well as grey carpeting on the interior walls. Other than those used on Airbus work I can't think of any other Ms that were refurbished internally for London work. Arriva East Herts & Essex did refurbish a few ex-London Ms for the 310.
I remember when the 310 got the new corporate Arriva moquette around 1998 and some interior panel changes. It is a shame that other Metro's and Titan's never got done. I recall some L's at [N] being completely refurbished internally. I do not remember any Metroline M's getting the LBL 90's moquette, unless it was Metroline Travel (the private hire arm) 41 L's at N were done - they included removal of the semi-auto boxes for 3 spd Voith ones, handrails painted from green to yellow, non slip flooring fitted, the old interior lighting replaced by continuous lighting (exactly same type found on ALX400's), wall panels and rear of seats painted/changed from brown to a blue turquoise colour & the sliding windows replaced by hopper windows - www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/3778790364Personally, I'm quite happy most of the LT stuff didn't gain a different interior, much prefer the 1980's LT interior
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Post by M1104 on Jul 8, 2021 1:35:57 GMT
Another blast from the past is V reg. Metrobus M295 on London General's incarnation of the 49 on August 22nd 1998. youtu.be/ldHnmxSSJ6w
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 8, 2021 7:03:44 GMT
Another blast from the past is V reg. Metrobus M295 on London General's incarnation of the 49 on August 22nd 1998. youtu.be/ldHnmxSSJ6wApart from the one way system at South Kensington and the appearance of Shepherds Bush everything more or less looks the same. I missed the 74 with the Volvo. Good Times good times.
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Post by VPL630 on Jul 10, 2021 5:54:10 GMT
You might have liked the one-off Voith boxed Titan T684, I remember riding this on the 374 in Harold Hill and being confused... Video of bus here m.youtube.com/watch?v=43W1brTPu6oI think both the Metrobus and Titan had similar Gardner engines, but I grew up with the Metrobuses on the E1, E2 and 207. Drivers would thrash them on the Uxbridge Road between Hanwell Broadway and Southall They were a great predecessor to the DB250, which I saw from new in Hackney on the 242. West London never saw that many Titans, I think the nearest ones to us were on the 131 near Hampton Court The only Olympians were newer 1990s ones on the 237 with Riverside Bus before Armchair replaced Atlanteans on the 65 and 260 around 1993 That just sounds so wrong on so many levels. Oh my poor ears, it sounds exactly like a Metrobus. It is amazing how the gearbox gives the bus a totally different sound even though it has the same engine. Reminds me of the ZF vs Voith gearboxes on Stagecoach TA's that sounded differently. Imagine working for a company that has multiple batches of B9TL’s and both Voith and ZF variants and with different bodywork, buses from the same batch have so much variation in sound and drivability, something that I always find interesting
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