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Post by dashing0ne on Jun 29, 2021 6:48:41 GMT
Suprised we never had this thread. This is a thread to discuss Former London Bus Operators and why did they leave etc.
Question: Why did First leave London? (to start of the thread.)
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jun 29, 2021 8:49:31 GMT
Suprised we never had this thread. This is a thread to discuss Former London Bus Operators and why did they leave etc.
Question: Why did First leave London? (to start of the thread.)
First left London "as part of a strategy to sell off selected bus assets, while offsetting tough conditions and building 'sustainable' passenger and revenue growth in the rest of the division." Basically, to make some money to inject into the rest of the business |
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Post by Busboy105 on Jun 29, 2021 9:56:33 GMT
Suprised we never had this thread. This is a thread to discuss Former London Bus Operators and why did they leave etc.
Question: Why did First leave London? (to start of the thread.)
First left London "as part of a strategy to sell off selected bus assets, while offsetting tough conditions and building 'sustainable' passenger and revenue growth in the rest of the division." Basically, to make some money to inject into the rest of the business Did that work considering they’ve sold up some of their Manchester operations? |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jun 29, 2021 11:46:48 GMT
First left London "as part of a strategy to sell off selected bus assets, while offsetting tough conditions and building 'sustainable' passenger and revenue growth in the rest of the division." Basically, to make some money to inject into the rest of the business Did that work considering they’ve sold up some of their Manchester operations? I understand they needed to inject quite a bit of money into the business. I believe the GM Buses North operation was the less profitable of the two halves of GM Buses |
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Post by ianhardy on Jun 29, 2021 20:09:18 GMT
Did that work considering they’ve sold up some of their Manchester operations? I understand they needed to inject quite a bit of money into the business. I believe the GM Buses North operation was the less profitable of the two halves of GM Buses First Group's Chief Executive (Moir Lockhead) had been the MD of Grampian Regional Transport which served Aberdeen, at the time was a relatively rich city with the North Sea oil industry based there so bus fares in Aberdeen were quite high compared to everywhere else. The CE decided that all First operators should have their fares at the same level as Aberdeen, but the passengers voted with their feet so instead of making more money, they lost money.
Moir would not sell any loss making operations and he would not sell vehicles apart from to scrap dealers to stop potential competitors buying them and then run in competition with First. So the whole group went to pot and was losing money hand over fist.
Also in 1999 First bought Ryder Public Transport Services, a US school bus operator and then in 2007 bought the US-based firm Laidlaw, which owned Greyhound. Both of which were not as profitable as was thought.
Moir Lockhead retired in 2011 and Tim O'Toole replaced him, then in 2013 First Group started to sell off or close down certain non-profitable operations: Northampton, Wirral, Chester, Wigan, Scottish Borders, East Lothian, Kidderminster, Hereford, Redditch, Kings Lynn, Bury St Edmunds, Bracknell & the London operation. It has been said that the London operation demanded approx 50% of First's new vehicle budget each year but it was only bringing in about 15% of the profits so it had to be sold. In 2019 they then sold the Bolton & Manchester depots of First Manchester. They are currently trying to sell the US ops.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 16:26:46 GMT
I've noticed more 2007/2008 reg gemini 2s on the 501 and 503 Huddersfield-Halifax routes when i was up there last month, clearly replacing the gemini 1s as there were very few of these. Where were the gemini 2s cascaded from, was it Manchester?
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 30, 2021 17:02:09 GMT
I've noticed more 2007/2008 reg gemini 2s on the 501 and 503 Huddersfield-Halifax routes when i was up there last month, clearly replacing the gemini 1s as there were very few of these. Where were the gemini 2s cascaded from, was it Manchester? Although they are B9TLs they are still Gemini 1 until 59-reg. The Huddersfield based ones, mainly came from Manchester a few years ago, but received Holmfirth Connection Livery, so rarely set foot in Halifax. They got repainted to standard Olympia, so wander more. Halifax has had them for about 18 months now, and came from Leeds, Hunslet Park. There is a small number of 09-reg vehicles based at each garage. Halifax also has all the 14-reg E400s, and could also be found on those routes last time I was up there which I believe was October/November. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 17:49:18 GMT
I've noticed more 2007/2008 reg gemini 2s on the 501 and 503 Huddersfield-Halifax routes when i was up there last month, clearly replacing the gemini 1s as there were very few of these. Where were the gemini 2s cascaded from, was it Manchester? Although they are B9TLs they are still Gemini 1 until 59-reg. The Huddersfield based ones, mainly came from Manchester a few years ago, but received Holmfirth Connection Livery, so rarely set foot in Halifax. They got repainted to standard Olympia, so wander more. Halifax has had them for about 18 months now, and came from Leeds, Hunslet Park. There is a small number of 09-reg vehicles based at each garage. Halifax also has all the 14-reg E400s, and could also be found on those routes last time I was up there which I believe was October/November. Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 1, 2021 11:09:13 GMT
Although they are B9TLs they are still Gemini 1 until 59-reg. The Huddersfield based ones, mainly came from Manchester a few years ago, but received Holmfirth Connection Livery, so rarely set foot in Halifax. They got repainted to standard Olympia, so wander more. Halifax has had them for about 18 months now, and came from Leeds, Hunslet Park. There is a small number of 09-reg vehicles based at each garage. Halifax also has all the 14-reg E400s, and could also be found on those routes last time I was up there which I believe was October/November. Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. The oldest Gemini with First West Yorkshire, are a couple of 53-reg at Bradford. Every other decker 53-reg or older was an ALX400 B7TL. Huddersfield's oldest Gemini was 54-reg, but have had some 04-reg move in from Bramley. They have 5 ALX400 left, but think these are restricted to schools now. Halifax has gone a different way. Their oldest Geminis are a couple of 05-reg, but have 14 ALX400 left, which again in the main are restricted to school workings. Reliable, frequently updated fleetlist can be found here - www.sheffieldomnibus.uk/fleet-lists.html |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jul 1, 2021 14:05:11 GMT
Although they are B9TLs they are still Gemini 1 until 59-reg. The Huddersfield based ones, mainly came from Manchester a few years ago, but received Holmfirth Connection Livery, so rarely set foot in Halifax. They got repainted to standard Olympia, so wander more. Halifax has had them for about 18 months now, and came from Leeds, Hunslet Park. There is a small number of 09-reg vehicles based at each garage. Halifax also has all the 14-reg E400s, and could also be found on those routes last time I was up there which I believe was October/November. Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. 01 reg?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2021 16:47:42 GMT
Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. 01 reg? Yeah that makes sense. There were a lot of ALX400s still in service when i was there back in November 2019, so have obviously been withdrawn since then, although I did see one in service still when i was up there last month. The 08 and 09 reg geminis i saw there last month were definitely not there back in 2019 so must've been cascaded in since then |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 1, 2021 16:53:34 GMT
Although they are B9TLs they are still Gemini 1 until 59-reg. The Huddersfield based ones, mainly came from Manchester a few years ago, but received Holmfirth Connection Livery, so rarely set foot in Halifax. They got repainted to standard Olympia, so wander more. Halifax has had them for about 18 months now, and came from Leeds, Hunslet Park. There is a small number of 09-reg vehicles based at each garage. Halifax also has all the 14-reg E400s, and could also be found on those routes last time I was up there which I believe was October/November. Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. I must say First really have picked their game up recently with their bus back better schemes. |
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Post by snowman on Jul 1, 2021 17:20:44 GMT
Oh ok thanks, that's interesting to know actually. The 01 and 02 reg geminis have all but disappeared from those routes when i was up there last month, but when i was last up in Huddersfield before that back in 2019, there were a lot more and no 07 or 08 reg B9TLs were present on these routes. 01 reg? I assume that should read Y reg as went from Y to 51 then 02 |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jul 1, 2021 19:15:14 GMT
01 reg? Yeah that makes sense. There were a lot of ALX400s still in service when i was there back in November 2019, so have obviously been withdrawn since then, although I did see one in service still when i was up there last month. The 08 and 09 reg geminis i saw there last month were definitely not there back in 2019 so must've been cascaded in since then 01 reg doesn't exist though |
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Post by ianhardy on Jul 1, 2021 19:52:57 GMT
Yeah that makes sense. There were a lot of ALX400s still in service when i was there back in November 2019, so have obviously been withdrawn since then, although I did see one in service still when i was up there last month. The 08 and 09 reg geminis i saw there last month were definitely not there back in 2019 so must've been cascaded in since then 01 reg doesn't exist though Not yet, but it will be for vehicles registered between 1st March 2050 & 31st August 2050.
After that a new system will be required as 51 reg has already been used for vehicles registered from 1st September 2001 until 28th February 2002.
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