djs76
Conductor
Posts: 94
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Post by djs76 on Jun 30, 2021 9:20:30 GMT
That's not quite right. MTL bought the London Suburban operation in April 1995; at first it remained as a separate unit on paper, but was absorbed into MTL London Northern later that year. The 4 and 271 transferred to HT in April 1996. In June 1996 the Edmonton base was closed down, with the 41 being surrendered to Cowie Leaside and the N6 transferring to HT. Thank you for clarifying the extra details - I was relying somewhat on my memories of living in North London at the time. I remember London Suburban well and seeing their buses around Archway in the striking red/brown/cream livery. Had no idea they operated the N6 though, that's pretty random and must have involved a fair amount of dead running.
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Post by bustavane on Jun 30, 2021 13:55:15 GMT
Was the depot that Mitcham Belle used on Streatham Road opposite the northbound Ashbourne Road stop? It was in use until just a few years ago, and has now been turned into housing. From what I remwmber, it was a pretty small space, with some of MBC's coaches often parking on the local roads nearby or under the railway bridge. Definitely couldn't fit much there Yeah, that’s the one. I actually have much fonder memories of Mitcham Belle having rode the 201 a lot under this period before & after the Herne Hill extension on the nice Pointers and the brilliant early Euro III Nimbus Darts. I also used the coaching side a lot during my youth as my local church would organise day trips on a Sunday to the seaside and Mitcham Belle was always the operator. They stuck with Centra and then resumed under Mitcham Belle when that name returned right up until the trips stopped happening - excellent coach operator with the drivers generally excellent. My favourite coach I rode was a Dennis Javelin simply because it sounds just like a Trident. Does anyone remember Leggs Travel who also ran from the Mitcham Belle base with about 3 or 4 ex London Titans in a yellow livery with a couple of colours? They used to run school stuff both in London & Surrey as they passed through Brixton regularly I remember Leggs well - buses in all sorts of colours, as you say, mainly for school routes (e.g. taking classes of childeren to the swimming pool.) IIRC Leggs was bought by the original owner of Mitcham Belle, who as you say reclaimed the name either when Centra took over, or when they left. Mitcham Belle coaches then bore the legal lettering: 'Leggs Travel' with the Streatham Road address. (I believe they still carry Leggs Travel, but with a Raynes Park address now.) The original premises were also home to a mobile mechanic's service, Bramley Autos, (servicing carried out at your home address) which was very good. (He kept my Vauxhall Cavalier on the road.)
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Post by redbus on Jun 30, 2021 17:52:05 GMT
Whilst liquidators have an important job to do, they also have to remember we are all human including themselves. To stop service immediately, chuck people off buses, leave people at stops is in my view inhuman and not an appropriate way to behave. To quote the old saying ' the unacceptable face of capitalism'. Next time it might be the liquidators wife, children, mother, family etc that is left waiting at the stop! Anyway all in the past and hopefully will never happen again. I agree it was brutal, but IIRC the issue was that the insurance had lapsed, so it would have been illegal to continue to run any sort of service.
I believe one of the consequences of the London Easylink saga was that TfL tightened up their requirements for approval of new operators, so hopefully we won't see a repeat of that.
Sure there may well have been legal issues such as insurance, but at the end of the day passengers were removed from buses and left at stops which is completely unacceptable. There needed to be a better way to wind down the company.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 1, 2021 2:33:24 GMT
Ealing Community Transport was the only one to use one type of bus (Thorpes is so close by it having one marshall but the rest being darts) Ealing Community Transport also temporarily had Pointer Darts on hire - 4 ex Sovereign examples on hire from Mitcham Belle whilst it's Caetano's were being delivered in 2003 and then in 2004, there was a long term hire of a Pointer in all over white for about a year or so covering for presumably a PVR increase as a new Caetano was ordered and arrived in 2005. I remember ECT running the 195 for a while, shortly before they lost the route to Metroline and Abellio respectively. There were loads of independents with routes in NW London back in the day, R&I Coaches in a white livery had the 112 and PR1 (forerunner to 226) in Ealing. I think Metropolitan Omnibus had the 187 with ELC bodied Darts, but cannot remember Thameside had the 373 and 270 and 256 in East London (I think), I remember ageing 370 Atlanteans ragged on the M25 to Lakeside with drivers using the A12 from Harold Hill and heading towards the A13
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Post by HA2215 on Jul 1, 2021 3:49:39 GMT
Theyhad 2 duties, from memory, whilst at EC, duty N1 started around 8pm and did a couple of rounders on the 41, then drive and do the N6, then the second duty would continue on .. there was only 2 buses on N6. Well was when I did it … at EC, never drove it. At HT …
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Post by redexpress on Jul 1, 2021 11:34:28 GMT
Ealing Community Transport also temporarily had Pointer Darts on hire - 4 ex Sovereign examples on hire from Mitcham Belle whilst it's Caetano's were being delivered in 2003 and then in 2004, there was a long term hire of a Pointer in all over white for about a year or so covering for presumably a PVR increase as a new Caetano was ordered and arrived in 2005. I remember ECT running the 195 for a while, shortly before they lost the route to Metroline and Abellio respectively. There were loads of independents with routes in NW London back in the day, R&I Coaches in a white livery had the 112 and PR1 (forerunner to 226) in Ealing. I think Metropolitan Omnibus had the 187 with ELC bodied Darts, but cannot remember Thameside had the 373 and 270 and 256 in East London (I think), I remember ageing 370 Atlanteans ragged on the M25 to Lakeside with drivers using the A12 from Harold Hill and heading towards the A13 R&I never ran the PR1 - that was a Centrewest route for its entire existence. Before being bought out by MTL, R&I ran the 112, 268, C11, C12, H1, H2 and H17 (lost to Sovereign in 1991) as well as the Sunday service on the 391 (unusually operated on a separate contract from the Mon-Sat service). Their livery was actually blue & grey (with a bit of red added in later years) although they did run some buses in "dealer white" for a while.
The buses that London Traveller / Metropolitan Omnibus used on the 187 and 487 were Volvo B6BLEs with East Lancs bodywork - a bit more interesting than yet another batch of Darts!
Thameside / Arriva ran the 370 and 373 commercially until 2007. The 256 and 346 were LT tendered routes.
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Post by galwhv69 on Jul 1, 2021 14:02:14 GMT
Whilst liquidators have an important job to do, they also have to remember we are all human including themselves. To stop service immediately, chuck people off buses, leave people at stops is in my view inhuman and not an appropriate way to behave. To quote the old saying ' the unacceptable face of capitalism'. Next time it might be the liquidators wife, children, mother, family etc that is left waiting at the stop! Anyway all in the past and hopefully will never happen again. I agree it was brutal, but IIRC the issue was that the insurance had lapsed, so it would have been illegal to continue to run any sort of service.
I believe one of the consequences of the London Easylink saga was that TfL tightened up their requirements for approval of new operators, so hopefully we won't see a repeat of that.
If insurance had lapsed, how were they able to drive dead back to depot?
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 1, 2021 14:08:49 GMT
I agree it was brutal, but IIRC the issue was that the insurance had lapsed, so it would have been illegal to continue to run any sort of service.
I believe one of the consequences of the London Easylink saga was that TfL tightened up their requirements for approval of new operators, so hopefully we won't see a repeat of that.
If insurance had lapsed, how were they able to drive dead back to depot? Depends what insurance was lapsed. If it was public liability insurance, then driving empty vehicles should not be a problem.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 3, 2021 6:20:24 GMT
London Surbuban, was owned by MTL, MTL having previously purchased. London Northern, , when MTL lost route 41 to cowie leaside, aka arriva .. the 271 and route 4 left Edmonton and went to HT, i still drove the N6 at EC prior to full closure I know factually as I transferred to HT and was rostered on route 4 .. caused HT midi bus drivers to whine as I didn’t have to go on the C11 W5 etc, even though I did on OT..l HT was a great depot. London Suburban Buses was actually owned by Gemsam who had an operation of their own in Liverpool called Liverbus. MTL therefore had both the Liverpool & London motivation to buy out Gemsam.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 3, 2021 6:42:48 GMT
Oh, where the Liverpool plot thickens is here. MTL divested London Northern in 1998. Then in 2000 Arriva bought MTL. So, this meant that what was MTL shared ownership until 1998 with what was London Northern, but from 2000 shared ownership with what was Leaside instead.
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Post by redexpress on Jul 3, 2021 7:40:41 GMT
London Suburban Buses was actually owned by Gemsam who had an operation of their own in Liverpool called Liverbus. MTL therefore had both the Liverpool & London motivation to buy out Gemsam. Oh, where the Liverpool plot thickens is here. MTL divested London Northern in 1998. Then in 2000 Arriva bought MTL. So, this meant that what was MTL shared ownership until 1998 with what was London Northern, but from 2000 shared ownership with what was Leaside instead.
Yes I always thought it was quite a coincidence that MTL ended up competing with Gemsam in the very same corner of London, as well as on their home turf. I suppose it made it inevitable that they would try to buy them out.
Just think, if MTL had held on to London Northern for a couple more years, HT, PB and NA might have ended up as Arriva garages. Although the combined size of the operation might have been too big for TfL's liking.
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Post by Catford94 on Jul 3, 2021 19:39:11 GMT
I agree it was brutal, but IIRC the issue was that the insurance had lapsed, so it would have been illegal to continue to run any sort of service.
I believe one of the consequences of the London Easylink saga was that TfL tightened up their requirements for approval of new operators, so hopefully we won't see a repeat of that.
Sure there may well have been legal issues such as insurance, but at the end of the day passengers were removed from buses and left at stops which is completely unacceptable. There needed to be a better way to wind down the company.
Yes - I read something in the aftermath that TFL didn't find out until it all hit the proverbial fan, and had they been told what was going on, they could probably have come up with some sort of arrangement to keep it going.
And heard there was one bus where either the radio wasn't working, or the driver wasn't listening (or decided not to take any notice) and they had to go out looking for this bus...
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