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Post by wirewiper on Nov 26, 2021 13:31:19 GMT
Worst case scenario at best would probably be closing the Waterloo&City line and some of those stations like during the lockdown to save money. The press are overly doing this. I suspect it probably will be just the W&C although the media won't be wrong, it will be an entire line. They just won't mention that it only has two stations that are served by other lines. IIRC it has been reported that the Bakerloo Line carries fewer passengers in the Central area than any other line. If sufficient financial support is not forthcoming it is possible that the Bakerloo Line could be mothballed, or reduced to a Baker Street - Queens Park shuttle. Or if the track layout allows (not sure it does) divert some Jubilee Line trains to and from Queens Park. Let's hope through that it doesn't come to this.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 26, 2021 14:26:31 GMT
I suspect it probably will be just the W&C although the media won't be wrong, it will be an entire line. They just won't mention that it only has two stations that are served by other lines. IIRC it has been reported that the Bakerloo Line carries fewer passengers in the Central area than any other line. If sufficient financial support is not forthcoming it is possible that the Bakerloo Line could be mothballed, or reduced to a Baker Street - Queens Park shuttle. Or if the track layout allows (not sure it does) divert some Jubilee Line trains to and from Queens Park. Let's hope through that it doesn't come to this. I believe there's no tunnel access at Baker Street to reverse southbound Bakerloo Line trains back towards Queens Park. They'd have to go all the way to the next track points at Piccadilly Circus¹. Also there's no tunnel access from the northbound Jubilee Line to the northbound Bakerloo tunnels to Queen's Park. ¹ - unless there's one at Marylebone?
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Post by redbus on Nov 26, 2021 15:20:50 GMT
IIRC it has been reported that the Bakerloo Line carries fewer passengers in the Central area than any other line. If sufficient financial support is not forthcoming it is possible that the Bakerloo Line could be mothballed, or reduced to a Baker Street - Queens Park shuttle. Or if the track layout allows (not sure it does) divert some Jubilee Line trains to and from Queens Park. Let's hope through that it doesn't come to this. I believe there's no tunnel access at Baker Street to reverse southbound Bakerloo Line trains back towards Queens Park. They'd have to go all the way to the next track points at Piccadilly Circus¹. Also there's no tunnel access from the northbound Jubilee Line to the northbound Bakerloo tunnels to Queen's Park. ¹ - unless there's one at Marylebone? Not feasible. Even if you could turn the trains around easily, which as you point out you can't, the Bakerloo and Jubilee signalling systems are completely incompatible. All this is just political posturing to get a financial settlement and in truth shows how terrible the relationship between Mayor and Government is. Short of a section 114 I can't see whole lines being closed with the possible exception of the Waterloo and City line. Even if there were a section 114 the government would take over TfL and services would continue.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 26, 2021 15:27:50 GMT
I believe there's no tunnel access at Baker Street to reverse southbound Bakerloo Line trains back towards Queens Park. They'd have to go all the way to the next track points at Piccadilly Circus¹. Also there's no tunnel access from the northbound Jubilee Line to the northbound Bakerloo tunnels to Queen's Park. ¹ - unless there's one at Marylebone? Not feasible. Even if you could turn the trains around easily, which as you point out you can't, the Bakerloo and Jubilee signalling systems are completely incompatible. All this is just political posturing to get a financial settlement and in truth shows how terrible the relationship between Mayor and Government is. Short of a section 114 I can't see whole lines being closed with the possible exception of the Waterloo and City line. Even if there were a section 114 the government would take over TfL and services would continue. Do the government take over in case of a section 114 ... I don't believe that what has happened with Croydon Council, although they have appointed someone to run it. Their job is to ensure that Croydon prepares a balanced budget. How they get there is down to Council policy. If Section 114 is served, the only thing that TfL has to do is provide what is legally required, which is not much in the grand scheme of things. Anything else will be required to show it has the appropriate budget to continue operating.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 26, 2021 15:53:23 GMT
I believe there's no tunnel access at Baker Street to reverse southbound Bakerloo Line trains back towards Queens Park. They'd have to go all the way to the next track points at Piccadilly Circus¹. Also there's no tunnel access from the northbound Jubilee Line to the northbound Bakerloo tunnels to Queen's Park. ¹ - unless there's one at Marylebone? Not feasible. Even if you could turn the trains around easily, which as you point out you can't, the Bakerloo and Jubilee signalling systems are completely incompatible. On top of that I just realised i made an error in that it's the southbound Bakerloo Line trains that can't access southbound Jubilee tunnels (got it the wrong way round), but as you said it all wouldn't work anyway.
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Post by astock5000 on Nov 26, 2021 16:21:03 GMT
I believe there's no tunnel access at Baker Street to reverse southbound Bakerloo Line trains back towards Queens Park. They'd have to go all the way to the next track points at Piccadilly Circus¹. Also there's no tunnel access from the northbound Jubilee Line to the northbound Bakerloo tunnels to Queen's Park. ¹ - unless there's one at Marylebone? That's correct that there's no crossover at Baker Street on the Bakerloo line. There was one at Marylebone when the line first opened and then at Edgware Road when the line was extended to that station the following year, but both were removed many decades ago with there now being nowhere to reverse trains between Piccadilly Circus and Paddington.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 26, 2021 16:24:01 GMT
I suspect it probably will be just the W&C although the media won't be wrong, it will be an entire line. They just won't mention that it only has two stations that are served by other lines. IIRC it has been reported that the Bakerloo Line carries fewer passengers in the Central area than any other line. If sufficient financial support is not forthcoming it is possible that the Bakerloo Line could be mothballed, or reduced to a Baker Street - Queens Park shuttle. Or if the track layout allows (not sure it does) divert some Jubilee Line trains to and from Queens Park. Let's hope through that it doesn't come to this. The Bakerloo would possibly also make sense in that it has the oldest stock essentially holding on treating the rest of the fleet to the work needed to keep them going and saving money doing so though like yourself, hopefully that doesn’t happen
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 26, 2021 23:06:53 GMT
I think it is more clickbate from news agencies and also scaremongering from TfL to get more money from the government.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 26, 2021 23:09:24 GMT
Not a bus cut but "Entire Tube line could be closed" alledgedly clickbaity silly headlines or do they mean like the Bakerloo could become part of the Jubilee etc ? Those two lines wouldn't be able to merge operations with their existing stocks. For starters the Bakerloo's 72 stock can't work under the Jubilee's ATO plus their shorter length carriages means their doors will not align with the platform doors along the JLE. The Jubilee Line's 96 stock is the opposite problem in terms of length, their carriages being too long for the twisty section of the Bakerloo Line tunnels, the Waterloo Station area coming to mind on that as the station itself is on the bend. I believe taking out a tube line is the absolute worst case senario which may likely not even happen. However if it were to be then the Circle Line would be the ideal one for implementation as no stations would need to close as they're all served by other S stock lines. Was there then a modification of platforms on the Jubilee line from Green Park to Stanmore. As this would have had the 72 stock trains years ago.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 27, 2021 11:26:47 GMT
Those two lines wouldn't be able to merge operations with their existing stocks. For starters the Bakerloo's 72 stock can't work under the Jubilee's ATO plus their shorter length carriages means their doors will not align with the platform doors along the JLE. The Jubilee Line's 96 stock is the opposite problem in terms of length, their carriages being too long for the twisty section of the Bakerloo Line tunnels, the Waterloo Station area coming to mind on that as the station itself is on the bend. I believe taking out a tube line is the absolute worst case senario which may likely not even happen. However if it were to be then the Circle Line would be the ideal one for implementation as no stations would need to close as they're all served by other S stock lines. Was there then a modification of platforms on the Jubilee line from Green Park to Stanmore. As this would have had the 72 stock trains years ago. I imagine any modifications if any was quite minimal, no different to when the Northern Line's 95 stock replaced the 59 and 72 stocks from the late 90s.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 27, 2021 11:33:10 GMT
I take it on such a worse case senario of a tube line being cut that there'd be no form of bus service enhancements? (baring in mind the idea on general service cuts)
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Nov 27, 2021 16:46:11 GMT
In an FOI from TfL 'We will be looking at more substantial structural alterations to bus routes in inner and central London, which may include elements of new bus services, with any such changes being subject to full stakeholder and public consultation and an Equality Impact Assessment. All details, including the consultation material will be available on our website in due course. The first consultations on these are likely to take place later year.' Lots more to come then..... The latest consultations including the replacements for routes 168 & 271 may be cases in point. (I say replacements rather than withdrawals as no section of route will use buses alogether).
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Nov 27, 2021 16:52:32 GMT
All these mergers (most of them anyway) show that Tfl preserve the lower numbers. I wonder why? Withdrawing route 1 as opposed to 168 sounds wrong, like you've got to have a number 1 bus route, but other high numbers like 391 have gone and the 271 is likely to go Ironically, a similar thing happened in 1987 when route 1 was extended back to Bromley leading to the withdrawal of long route 199. Whereas around Christmas 1990 route 1 linked Waterloo with Bromley, by Christmas 2023 it will link Waterloo with Hampstead Heath! (Disclaimer: I just give Waterloo as a key place served even though it never terminated there as far as I know).
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Nov 27, 2021 16:54:39 GMT
They're obviously going to withdraw number 168, not 1.
Cutting "bus number 1" would propel this consultation into newspaper headlines, as if somehow symbolic of cutting the entire system.
Just another replica of the route 13/82 drama few years back. Not quite. Either route 1 will be diverted to Hampstead Heath or route 168 diverted to Canada Water.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2021 16:59:52 GMT
Just another replica of the route 13/82 drama few years back. Not quite. Either route 1 will be diverted to Hampstead Heath or route 168 diverted to Canada Water. Probably better if Go Ahead take over the route, since if there are curtailments, there is always the Northern line. Also it should be relatively easy to learn for Go Ahead, just a straight line from TCR, only difficulties may be the few turns southbound around Camden
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