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Post by TB123 on Jan 18, 2022 20:24:59 GMT
Westminster has had no LTNs introduced and is expected to see a similar level reduction, as is Wandsworth (now LTN free) so I wouldn't blame it on the LTNs. Working from home, shift to walking and cycling/escooters will have a disproportionate impact on bus use in inner London. And some additional car use, though I expect that to tail off with the sky high petrol prices. In an area like Brixton, bus usage is still pretty strong despite the obvious setbacks so if they don't want to fuel anymore additional car usage, then they need to tred carefully with the next load of changes. I'd agree. I can accept some minor trims, ie standardised frequencies (no peak differential) but any cuts beyond that are completely counterproductive
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 18, 2022 22:54:33 GMT
Well I must by tight despite earning a decent wage I really couldn’t justify Uber fares especially to and from work! This is only my personal view but this instance cultural for everything is awful and the fact people can’t even wait for transport says a lot about the world. It’s the same for things like take away deliveries and bikes flying around everywhere and now instant supermarket deliveries. Again this is my personal views so don’t want big drama or debates. I sometimes look back and can’t believe how different the world is now to even when I left school in 95. Sadly Covid and Lockdown added to these issues, when the local takeaways closed, businesses got smart and turned to the likes of Uber Eats. We all went online for everything, from shopping to entertainment. Sadly buses are not as great as they were, speeds have dropped, and there's no creature comforts compared to the Provinces. To use a car analogy it's not even an XLine or SE, but base model. Then most buses are like mobile landfills with chicken boxes, the morning's copy of The Metro everywhere, some passengers not wearing masks... not to moan but you can see why it may no longer appeal to the masses. I am not demanding Stagecoach Gold levels of trim, but speeds need to improved and you can get this in an Uber if you don't want to sit with lots on a bus, in moderate comfort. TfL has the mixture of bad fortune and bad decisions such as not moving ticket readers to other parts of the lower saloon in the first lockdown but making buses free for several months. Running the same amount of buses despite fewer than 11 people on board (I once had a 232 Streetlite to myself for a fast section of the North Circular Road ) came at great cost and blew a hole in the budget from which things never recovered. Desperate money grab schemes like per mile road charging or adding it into Council Tax won't endear a lot of people...
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 19, 2022 23:12:11 GMT
I see the cuts are back in the news again today and a clever plan from TfL...we'll axe the Boris buses... This from today's Standard... The “Boris bus” may have to be taken off the road unless Transport for London’s long-term financial crisis can be resolved, City Hall said on Monday. A thousand of the buses were introduced by Boris Johnson in his second term as mayor, at a cost of about £350m, as a replacement for the classic Routemaster double-decker. They are approaching their “mid-life refurbishment”, required about seven years into an expected 14-year lifespan, but TfL is struggling to find the estimated £31m needed to carry out the upgrades. www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tfl-funding-crisis-boris-routemaster-bus-sadiq-khan-b977064.htmlThe various news outlets are just repeating a Press Release issued by mayors office www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/mayor-warns-jobs-at-risk-if-tfl-not-rightly-fundedSo all these scare stories are basically political mayor trying to getting upper hand. To be honest I am sick of Khan, he just is a shameless beggar. Constantly whinging and whining for money. Whether it is for TfL, fining people for masks, and now his proposed charges again for motorists and always in the name of the environment. I cant believe the news buys this guys bullshit. If he was serious he would never do the Silvertown tunnel. trouble is he knows that is a revenue raiser. I can see more people leaving London for surrounding towns and not even bothering to drive within Greater London.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 19, 2022 23:19:01 GMT
Heard a few routes further out of inner/central London, in outer London are in line for frequency reductions. Although I'm told cuts will be targeted on routes converted to bigger vehicles in recent years (like 245) or routes with already widened headways being adjusted. Prehaps we could rename the thread to just London bus cuts? The W3 would be losing 3 buses, resorting to a strictly 6 mins M-F. 329 would lose 1 bus and be strictly 8 mins M-F, still a lot more routes to be reviewed
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 19, 2022 23:21:45 GMT
And the 230 partly parallels the Victoria Line on which the frequency of service to Walthamstow Central has been increased. I think the 230 was decreased in response to the increased running times from the cycle lane works aswell the implementation of it that removed the bus lane on Forest Road. Walthamstow cycle nutcase works, ruined a lot of routes. Not to mention CPZ's expanded across the majority of the borough as a cash cow and side roads closed off. The 230 was being hit hard, when it went from 12 to 15 mins, the service was a lot harder to get buses on time not running over 5 minutes late because of this.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 19, 2022 23:30:05 GMT
Heard a few routes further out of inner/central London, in outer London are in line for frequency reductions. Although I'm told cuts will be targeted on routes converted to bigger vehicles in recent years (like 245) or routes with already widened headways being adjusted. Prehaps we could rename the thread to just London bus cuts? The W3 would be losing 3 buses, resorting to a strictly 6 mins M-F. 329 would lose 1 bus and be strictly 8 mins M-F, still a lot more routes to be reviewed Yep I'd heard about those two, as you say lots more to come.
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 20, 2022 16:21:14 GMT
A campaign to encourage celebrities to leave the car at home and use the bus could work to drive up passenger numbers. Better use of Social Media could help TfL, though not holding breath after disastrous branding efforts in Barkingside and Hayes. A viral TikTok ad with clickbait announcement "Antonio Conte Walks from Tottenham" could get Football Fans' attention, then a link to an interactive bus map. Better use of LED blinds to show via points, or at least scroll like the outside world has managed for the past 20 years could help as well
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 22, 2022 5:51:54 GMT
I see the cuts are back in the news again today and a clever plan from TfL...we'll axe the Boris buses... This from today's Standard... The “Boris bus” may have to be taken off the road unless Transport for London’s long-term financial crisis can be resolved, City Hall said on Monday. A thousand of the buses were introduced by Boris Johnson in his second term as mayor, at a cost of about £350m, as a replacement for the classic Routemaster double-decker. They are approaching their “mid-life refurbishment”, required about seven years into an expected 14-year lifespan, but TfL is struggling to find the estimated £31m needed to carry out the upgrades. www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tfl-funding-crisis-boris-routemaster-bus-sadiq-khan-b977064.htmlI think this is a little farcical. No matter how much bus enthusiasts and some bus travellers hate them, they won't be taken off of the road. I do think that the pre-2014 examples might face a cull if the mid-life refurb is cancelled but the later examples are already paid for and will last a good 4 years until they are in dire need of a refurb. Isn't it better to use existing buses than to buy new ones when the existing ones are fine for the time being? Also, the Standard did once say that 100 bus routes were to be axed along with the Bakerloo Line, once again really can't see that being the case. It's probably just a headline grabber claiming that the LTs could face early withdrawal. In reality, we are seeing frequency reductions leading to LTs being redeployed and diesel buses withdrawn earlier than originally intended. Even the 100 routes withdrawn rumour seems exaggerated, and several routes withdrawn will be mainly covered by other routes (eg 21/271), meaning roads remaining served by buses albeit fewer in total.
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 22, 2022 6:09:09 GMT
I think this is a little farcical. No matter how much bus enthusiasts and some bus travellers hate them, they won't be taken off of the road. I do think that the pre-2014 examples might face a cull if the mid-life refurb is cancelled but the later examples are already paid for and will last a good 4 years until they are in dire need of a refurb. Isn't it better to use existing buses than to buy new ones when the existing ones are fine for the time being? Also, the Standard did once say that 100 bus routes were to be axed along with the Bakerloo Line, once again really can't see that being the case. It's probably just a headline grabber claiming that the LTs could face early withdrawal. In reality, we are seeing frequency reductions leading to LTs being redeployed and diesel buses withdrawn earlier than originally intended. Even the 100 routes withdrawn rumour seems exaggerated, and several routes withdrawn will be mainly covered by other routes (eg 21/271), meaning roads remaining served by buses albeit fewer in total. There is slight exaggeration as papers have got to sell, but those returning to work may be surprised when their bus route has disappeared or been altered (see 21, 168, 263, 271 for instance), many didn't like the loss of the 48 for instance. Many might have seen the LTs popping up on more suburban routes, but the same happened with the original Routemasters too before their withdrawal (390). People see TfL still spending oodles of money on road schemes and consultations (see latest plans for High Road, A10), yet in the same breath begging for money or hiking fares and fines. I wonder if Katie Price has been appointed Chief Financial Officer the way these plans are still being made Let's not forget the catalogue of accidents the LTs have been in, and as a unique bus, the costs of repairing them. Most need repainting and always look a mess after wraps are removed, hardly a good advert for bus travel. Nothing wrong with most of them, I think LT8 is the only one withdrawn. They still get too hot in the summer though
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Post by WH241 on Jan 23, 2022 16:08:57 GMT
LOTS weekly news reports the PVR cuts so far have reached 250.
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Post by TB123 on Feb 19, 2022 0:49:21 GMT
Regardless of what happens regarding the funding deal, would expect to see another consultation on inner/central London bus service changes fairly soon. It won't be pretty either.
Only have to look at the terms "managed decline" and "structural alterations" being floated around by TfL as of late to see why that is. But it'll also be a culmination of 10 years falling bus usage in inner London I suspect.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2022 2:16:12 GMT
Regardless of what happens regarding the funding deal, would expect to see another consultation on inner/central London bus service changes fairly soon. It won't be pretty either. Only have to look at the terms "managed decline" and "structural alterations" being floated around by TfL as of late to see why that is. But it'll also be a culmination of 10 years falling bus usage in inner London I suspect. Answering falling demand by cutting routes will only cause more falling demand - as I said previously, this falling demand is different area to area and by picking on Inner London, they aren't really righting the wrongs of ignoring Outer London for many years but merely repeating the same mistake only for Inner London this time. History is there to learn from and not repeat the mistakes but instead, once again, an organisation decides to do the latter.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 19, 2022 5:51:09 GMT
Regardless of what happens regarding the funding deal, would expect to see another consultation on inner/central London bus service changes fairly soon. It won't be pretty either. Only have to look at the terms "managed decline" and "structural alterations" being floated around by TfL as of late to see why that is. But it'll also be a culmination of 10 years falling bus usage in inner London I suspect. The Pandemic has shown we don't need the 1950s business model of all being in one office building as the same tasks can be managed by a powerful laptop PC at home, saving many employers hundreds in office space, facilities management, security etc. I assume the downsizing will continue as many will see the sudden scrapping of Covid rules as reckless especially if things return with a bang next winter, so I am sure businesses are keeping a cautious eye on things. As a result less will travel into work, saving thousands in travel costs (TfL are odd, they are raising fare prices, but reducing Congestion Charge operating times). Oxford Street and Regent Street are still fairly quiet, even traffic wise. The days of hundreds of buses lining the streets of Central London are long gone. Buses magazine highlights the possible axing of the LTs, which is bad timing considering the refurbishment programme started for them. More are travelling using ride hailing apps like Uber as many feel nervous about being crammed on a bus with a lot of people again after having 2 years of social distancing rules shoved down their throat. I assume buses will be redeployed to outer London or reduced
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 19, 2022 6:19:59 GMT
Regardless of what happens regarding the funding deal, would expect to see another consultation on inner/central London bus service changes fairly soon. It won't be pretty either. Only have to look at the terms "managed decline" and "structural alterations" being floated around by TfL as of late to see why that is. But it'll also be a culmination of 10 years falling bus usage in inner London I suspect. The Pandemic has shown we don't need the 1950s business model of all being in one office building as the same tasks can be managed by a powerful laptop PC at home, saving many employers hundreds in office space, facilities management, security etc. I assume the downsizing will continue as many will see the sudden scrapping of Covid rules as reckless especially if things return with a bang next winter, so I am sure businesses are keeping a cautious eye on things. As a result less will travel into work, saving thousands in travel costs (TfL are odd, they are raising fare prices, but reducing Congestion Charge operating times). Oxford Street and Regent Street are still fairly quiet, even traffic wise. The days of hundreds of buses lining the streets of Central London are long gone. Buses magazine highlights the possible axing of the LTs, which is bad timing considering the refurbishment programme started for them. More are travelling using ride hailing apps like Uber as many feel nervous about being crammed on a bus with a lot of people again after having 2 years of social distancing rules shoved down their throat. I assume buses will be redeployed to outer London or reduced As younger people enter the workforce wanting a better home/work balance there would have been the inevitable shift to hybrid working across most office based roles but it was happening slowly. The pandemic has sped up something which may have taken a decade or two to complete and compressed into a year.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 19, 2022 7:32:45 GMT
Regardless of what happens regarding the funding deal, would expect to see another consultation on inner/central London bus service changes fairly soon. It won't be pretty either. Only have to look at the terms "managed decline" and "structural alterations" being floated around by TfL as of late to see why that is. But it'll also be a culmination of 10 years falling bus usage in inner London I suspect. The Pandemic has shown we don't need the 1950s business model of all being in one office building as the same tasks can be managed by a powerful laptop PC at home, saving many employers hundreds in office space, facilities management, security etc. I assume the downsizing will continue as many will see the sudden scrapping of Covid rules as reckless especially if things return with a bang next winter, so I am sure businesses are keeping a cautious eye on things. As a result less will travel into work, saving thousands in travel costs (TfL are odd, they are raising fare prices, but reducing Congestion Charge operating times). Oxford Street and Regent Street are still fairly quiet, even traffic wise. The days of hundreds of buses lining the streets of Central London are long gone. Buses magazine highlights the possible axing of the LTs, which is bad timing considering the refurbishment programme started for them. More are travelling using ride hailing apps like Uber as many feel nervous about being crammed on a bus with a lot of people again after having 2 years of social distancing rules shoved down their throat. I assume buses will be redeployed to outer London or reduced Indeed the world has changed although the pandemic has really just fast forwarded changes that were happening gradually anyway. Two years ago remote working and shopping online were relatively new ideas but are very much established now and most people see these changes as something to embrace in contrast to some of the negativity on here. There is a book just out 'The Nowhere Office' about remote working which should be quite enlightening. Add to this moves towards encouraging walking and cycling, which seems to be happening worldwide, and social distancing continuing to some degree and it all adds up to fewer buses needed particularly in Central London which is likely to be far more leisure orientated in the future. I've not seen the latest Buses magazine, must try and get a copy today.
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