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Post by mark on Mar 8, 2022 13:45:05 GMT
Tube strike today - buses absolutely rammed full. Passengers left at stops. Seems much worse than on previous tube strike of the past and many worked at home today. I suspect that the 300 PVR bus cuts have made today as much of misery for many as the tube strike itself. It has been really noticeable. With the spare capacity stripped out the buses have been absolutely hammered today. Extras have been laid on but not to the same extent as in the past. I assume spare drivers are harder to come by now. Went out on a lunchtime walk around Holborn and even in the middle of the day buses were absolutely stuffed and sitting in gridlocked traffic. It has felt more like the strikes of the 1990s and early 2000s, pre con charge, when information on alternative/still running services were not readily available, and everyone surged for the buses and brought their cars in. With the various road closures in Central London today and associated spillover traffic today has easily the highest level of disruption I've seen on a strike day in 20 years. Not looking forward to Thursday at all. The chaos in Holborn was due to a fatal collision between an HGV and cycle that led to a road closure from around 08:00 for much of the day.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 19, 2022 9:37:52 GMT
I'm a bit surprised to hear of another reduction to the 12, how bizarre that once iconic routes like this and the 15 are reduced to just a x12 minute headway.
Would it not be better to leave the 12 as it is, other than perhaps reducing the Dulwich section, and reducing the 171 to x12 minutes instead? Same route as the 12 between Elephant & Castle and Peckham and the rest of the route is largely covered by the 172 and 185, the 171 never looks busy from what I see of it unlike the 12.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 19, 2022 13:46:14 GMT
I'm a bit surprised to hear of another reduction to the 12, how bizarre that once iconic routes like this and the 15 are reduced to just a x12 minute headway. Would it not be better to leave the 12 as it is, other than perhaps reducing the Dulwich section, and reducing the 171 to x12 minutes instead? Same route as the 12 between Elephant & Castle and Peckham and the rest of the route is largely covered by the 172 and 185, the 171 never looks busy from what I see of it unlike the 12. Not sure what 171 your seeing
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Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 19, 2022 14:50:14 GMT
I'm a bit surprised to hear of another reduction to the 12, how bizarre that once iconic routes like this and the 15 are reduced to just a x12 minute headway. Would it not be better to leave the 12 as it is, other than perhaps reducing the Dulwich section, and reducing the 171 to x12 minutes instead? Same route as the 12 between Elephant & Castle and Peckham and the rest of the route is largely covered by the 172 and 185, the 171 never looks busy from what I see of it unlike the 12. The 12 seems fine at its current frequency I agree. Although I imagine the decline in patronage has probably been linked to Peckham having a more yuppie population, endless roadworks, it being curtailed to Whitehall for a lengthy period of time & rail improvements. I don't think I could link shopping habits to its decline though especially as Camberwell/Peckham have bustling high streets (if you could call them that) and seemingly have a good range of shops.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 19, 2022 16:08:31 GMT
I'm a bit surprised to hear of another reduction to the 12, how bizarre that once iconic routes like this and the 15 are reduced to just a x12 minute headway. Would it not be better to leave the 12 as it is, other than perhaps reducing the Dulwich section, and reducing the 171 to x12 minutes instead? Same route as the 12 between Elephant & Castle and Peckham and the rest of the route is largely covered by the 172 and 185, the 171 never looks busy from what I see of it unlike the 12. The 12 seems fine at its current frequency I agree. Although I imagine the decline in patronage has probably been linked to Peckham having a more yuppie population, endless roadworks, it being curtailed to Whitehall for a lengthy period of time & rail improvements. I don't think I could link shopping habits to its decline though especially as Camberwell/Peckham have bustling high streets (if you could call them that) and seemingly have a good range of shops. Yes the 12 had a reduction a few years ago and this reduction from 8 to 5bph is a bit servere. If the 171 was reduced instead I doubt many people would even notice.
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 19, 2022 17:19:25 GMT
The 12 seems fine at its current frequency I agree. Although I imagine the decline in patronage has probably been linked to Peckham having a more yuppie population, endless roadworks, it being curtailed to Whitehall for a lengthy period of time & rail improvements. I don't think I could link shopping habits to its decline though especially as Camberwell/Peckham have bustling high streets (if you could call them that) and seemingly have a good range of shops. Yes the 12 had a reduction a few years ago and this reduction from 8 to 5bph is a bit servere. If the 171 was reduced instead I doubt many people would even notice. Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 19, 2022 17:28:37 GMT
Yes the 12 had a reduction a few years ago and this reduction from 8 to 5bph is a bit servere. If the 171 was reduced instead I doubt many people would even notice. Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic. Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise.
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 19, 2022 17:32:53 GMT
Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic. Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise. If anything you’ve just reinforced my points to retain the 171 at its present frequency.
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Post by WH241 on Mar 19, 2022 17:34:35 GMT
Yes the 12 had a reduction a few years ago and this reduction from 8 to 5bph is a bit servere. If the 171 was reduced instead I doubt many people would even notice. Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic. I agree! I read comments here and sometimes scratch my head in disbelief. You have constant banging on about how working from home is the future and online shopping is taking over then people are shocked when services are cut. I would trust the data more than casual observations, doubt anyone here can see buses 247! No matter what route is cut someone will suggest they should instead cut route x just because they feel they know better.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 19, 2022 17:35:16 GMT
Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic. Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise. It is an illustration of how patterns of bus travel are changing in Central and Inner London, that a route like the 171 is becoming more valuable than one such as the 12. Having fewer 12s around also means that the 197, 148 and 453 will all have more to do and I dare say more people will start taking the first bus that comes along to an interchange point (such as Camberwell Green or Peckham) rather than wait specifically for a 12.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 19, 2022 17:43:01 GMT
Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise. It is an illustration of how patterns of bus travel are changing in Central and Inner London, that a route like the 171 is becoming more valuable than one such as the 12. Having fewer 12s around also means that the 197, 148 and 453 will all have more to do and I dare say more people will start taking the first bus that comes along to an interchange point (such as Camberwell Green or Peckham) rather than wait specifically for a 12. Without doubt travel patterns are changing but the 12 is invariably busier than the 171 between Elephant and Peckham.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 19, 2022 17:43:13 GMT
Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise. It is an illustration of how patterns of bus travel are changing in Central and Inner London, that a route like the 171 is becoming more valuable than one such as the 12. Having fewer 12s around also means that the 197, 148 and 453 will all have more to do and I dare say more people will start taking the first bus that comes along to an interchange point (such as Camberwell Green or Peckham) rather than wait specifically for a 12. Probably explains why the 453s freq cut wasn't that massive really as they were already planning the 12s.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Mar 19, 2022 18:11:01 GMT
Probably diversions at Westminster, temp cutbacks to Piccadilly then Whitehall have dented peoples confidence in the route. Whereas the 171 has been more consistent with its routing and I'd imagine has alot of feeder passengers into New Cross Gate and Elephant aswell as the round the corner Catford to Brockley Rise. It is an illustration of how patterns of bus travel are changing in Central and Inner London, that a route like the 171 is becoming more valuable than one such as the 12. Having fewer 12s around also means that the 197, 148 and 453 will all have more to do and I dare say more people will start taking the first bus that comes along to an interchange point (such as Camberwell Green or Peckham) rather than wait specifically for a 12. Notwithstanding that the 12 takes a rather convoluted routeing between Dulwich and Camberwell, albeit to serve Peckham, that could likely be better catered for by the 40 or 176.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 19, 2022 19:58:56 GMT
It is an illustration of how patterns of bus travel are changing in Central and Inner London, that a route like the 171 is becoming more valuable than one such as the 12. Having fewer 12s around also means that the 197, 148 and 453 will all have more to do and I dare say more people will start taking the first bus that comes along to an interchange point (such as Camberwell Green or Peckham) rather than wait specifically for a 12. Without doubt travel patterns are changing but the 12 is invariably busier than the 171 between Elephant and Peckham. Says who?
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Post by WH241 on Mar 19, 2022 20:11:25 GMT
Without doubt travel patterns are changing but the 12 is invariably busier than the 171 between Elephant and Peckham. Says who? The self appointed forum bus planners
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