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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 19, 2022 22:17:16 GMT
Yes the 12 had a reduction a few years ago and this reduction from 8 to 5bph is a bit servere. If the 171 was reduced instead I doubt many people would even notice. Hmm, the average 7.5 million pre pandemic 171 users annually might disagree with you. Whilst still not as high as the 12, the 171 has remained consistent whilst the 12s passenger numbers have fallen consistently year on year, pre-pandemic. In 2019/20 it had dropped to 5,913000 passengers no doubt to it being cutback to Elephant that year.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 28, 2022 17:19:53 GMT
Staggering that the 12 which at one point had a very high frequency will have less bph than the 176 which was cut to 6bph in Dulwich.
However with the 197, there will still be 10bph between Dulwich and Peckham along Barry Road.
I think the Overground service from Peckham Rye is another factor which is a more attractive proposition than going at a snail's pace through Peckham, Camberwell and Walworth to reach central London.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 28, 2022 18:00:59 GMT
Staggering that the 12 which at one point had a very high frequency will have less bph than the 176 which was cut to 6bph in Dulwich. However with the 197, there will still be 10bph between Dulwich and Peckham along Barry Road. I think the Overground service from Peckham Rye is another factor which is a more attractive proposition than going at a snail's pace through Peckham, Camberwell and Walworth to reach central London. Yes I was more than a little surprised about the 12, I did suggest reducing the 171 instead but actually they're both being reduced. Still leaves 10bph between Elephant and Peckham via Camberwell and as you say the 197 gives a combined 10bph to Dulwich. I've no doubt rail improvements are a significant factor both LO and Thameslink.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 28, 2022 22:42:22 GMT
The 12's issue of going round the long way to Dulwich wasn't so much an issue until the 176 replaced the southern section of the route between Dulwich and Penge in 1988. Then it lost the useful Oxford Circus to Notting Hill Gate section (It was also cut from Shepherd's Bush Green to Notting Hill).
It wasn't so much of an issue until the rail services improved from Peckham Rye with what I suspect from Dulwich is being used as a feeder route along with the 197 to take passengers from Dulwich to the train station (Dulwich Library also has passengers who use the 176, 185 and 197 to Forest Hill, another London Overground station), so the demand for commuting from Barry Road to Zone 1 by bus has lessened, not helped by 20mph limits and increased traffic.
The Dulwich terminus seems to be purely for operational convenience these days and the two stands in Friern Road and Lordship Lane for the 12 look more archaic than ever when they were designed for high frequency artics for a route that will have the same frequency as the 197.
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Post by ian on May 19, 2022 9:48:16 GMT
8 and 205 to add?
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Post by yunus on May 19, 2022 18:44:37 GMT
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Post by WH241 on May 19, 2022 19:11:07 GMT
Here we go again with a few weeks until the next bail out. Getting a bit silly now with the constant threats from the Mayor to the Government and then the usual push back from them. I really hope the next deal is long term!
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Post by southlondonbus on May 19, 2022 21:01:21 GMT
Not going to be easy this time with passenger numbers probably as high as they are going to be (averaging about 87% of pre covid levels I believe). There's not really a reason why or no firm expectations that all pre covid demand will return.
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Post by vjaska on May 19, 2022 23:02:14 GMT
Not going to be easy this time with passenger numbers probably as high as they are going to be (averaging about 87% of pre covid levels I believe). There's not really a reason why or no firm expectations that all pre covid demand will return. So are your suggesting we simply stop investing in our public transport now we have reached 87%?
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Post by snowman on May 20, 2022 5:34:00 GMT
Add route 36 from 4th June, being cut from 10bph to 8bph (6 mins to 7.5 mins)
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Post by evergreenadam on May 20, 2022 6:40:35 GMT
Add route 36 from 4th June, being cut from 10bph to 8bph (6 mins to 7.5 mins) Well that was always overbussed north of Paddington.
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Post by TB123 on May 20, 2022 7:51:26 GMT
Add route 36 from 4th June, being cut from 10bph to 8bph (6 mins to 7.5 mins) Well that was always overbussed north of Paddington. Personally think that should be split. Paddington to NXG at 7.5 bph and either a "36C" from Victoria to QPK at 5bph (potential there for southbound extension) or divert the 274 at the arch up to Queens Park. Same-stop interchange still though hopper might be an issue.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 20, 2022 7:56:14 GMT
Well that was always overbussed north of Paddington. Personally think that should be split. Paddington to NXG at 7.5 bph and either a "36C" from Victoria to QPK at 5bph (potential there for southbound extension) or divert the 274 at the arch up to Queens Park. Same-stop interchange still though hopper might be an issue. 414 every 10-12 mins would have been a good fit for the Queens Park section.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 20, 2022 7:58:39 GMT
Not going to be easy this time with passenger numbers probably as high as they are going to be (averaging about 87% of pre covid levels I believe). There's not really a reason why or no firm expectations that all pre covid demand will return. So are your suggesting we simply stop investing in our public transport now we have reached 87%? Not saying that at all. In fact I wasn't giving my opinion but pointing out that it won't be easy for TFL as before they were effectively guided by work from home guidance keeping passengers away.
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Post by greenboy on May 20, 2022 9:15:26 GMT
Personally think that should be split. Paddington to NXG at 7.5 bph and either a "36C" from Victoria to QPK at 5bph (potential there for southbound extension) or divert the 274 at the arch up to Queens Park. Same-stop interchange still though hopper might be an issue. 414 every 10-12 mins would have been a good fit for the Queens Park section. Yes I think the 36 should have been split up a long time ago because the disparity in demand at either end of route, either that or curtail alternate journeys at Paddington.
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