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Post by jrussa on Aug 17, 2021 12:32:50 GMT
Before even considering any central line extension, the main priorities for the line should be: 1. Running more Epping Services than Hainault (This has been ongoing for well over a decade) 2. Refurbishment of the fleet 3. Ensuring new drivers are trained who have been waiting for a year due to the pandemic The split between Hainault and Epping is still fairly even. The fleet is being refurbished hopefully soon. Unfortunately whislt it is, there will be less available trains hence some small reductions to free them up to go for refurb. Not sure if the original plans will be given another go for the Hainalt shuttle to use 1 train split in 2 to allow the other to be sent away. Unfortunately it is not even... The timetable may suggest that, but waiting on the platform is a complete different situation. It is a ratio of 3:1 (Hainault: Epping/Loughton respectively) |
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 17, 2021 18:29:38 GMT
Even if funding were available, I would still question if priority should be given to considering this idea. Harlow is already well connected to London by Greater Anglia services to Liverpool Street, which are much faster than a Central Line extension would be. If there is an increase in demand at Harlow, measures could instead be looked at to increase capacity or frequency on Greater Anglia services. And if Crossrail 2 goes ahead, there is the potential to consider extending from Broxbourne to Harlow, or perhaps even onwards to Stansted Airport?
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Post by thesquirrels on Aug 17, 2021 22:05:57 GMT
Can see the benefit in being able to park the car in/jump on a quick bus to Epping and get a tube to London on zone 1-6 fares. I don't understand in any logical way how this extrapolates into actually sending the Central line itself up to Harlow. TfL and associated bodies will want their dollar back if an extension were ever built through the Essex countryside - I wouldn't expect the fare to London to be much less than that on NR, for a journey that would take much longer. Unless there is some undiscussed merit in linking areas such as Harlow and Woodford, Leytonstone and Redbridge, which the existing NR services do not.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 17, 2021 23:04:19 GMT
Can see the benefit in being able to park the car in/jump on a quick bus to Epping and get a tube to London on zone 1-6 fares. I don't understand in any logical way how this extrapolates into actually sending the Central line itself up to Harlow. TfL and associated bodies will want their dollar back if an extension were ever built through the Essex countryside - I wouldn't expect the fare to London to be much less than that on NR, for a journey that would take much longer. Unless there is some undiscussed merit in linking areas such as Harlow and Woodford, Leytonstone and Redbridge, which the existing NR services do not. Indeed, I think the idea of a rapid bus scheme from Harlow to Essex also has much more potential and would be cheaper too than extending the Central even further. I'd rather see some more radical ideas explored within London when it comes to the tube even if they aren't necessary feasible (one example, Bakerloo branch after Elephant via Camberwell, Brixton and select stations along the A23 to Croydon potentially relieving that road and cutting journey times from Brixton and beyond to Croydon where no easy rail link exists). Might not be feasible at all and probably isn't but surely a better case than building a link that already exists via Greater Anglia. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 18, 2021 7:48:48 GMT
Before even considering any central line extension, the main priorities for the line should be: 1. Running more Epping Services than Hainault (This has been ongoing for well over a decade) 2. Refurbishment of the fleet 3. Ensuring new drivers are trained who have been waiting for a year due to the pandemic The split between Hainault and Epping is still fairly even. The fleet is being refurbished hopefully soon. Unfortunately whislt it is, there will be less available trains hence some small reductions to free them up to go for refurb. Not sure if the original plans will be given another go for the Hainalt shuttle to use 1 train split in 2 to allow the other to be sent away. I've always found the split fairly even although it can go either way, ie two successive Loughton/Epping trains. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 18, 2021 8:11:02 GMT
Even if funding were available, I would still question if priority should be given to considering this idea. Harlow is already well connected to London by Greater Anglia services to Liverpool Street, which are much faster than a Central Line extension would be. If there is an increase in demand at Harlow, measures could instead be looked at to increase capacity or frequency on Greater Anglia services. And if Crossrail 2 goes ahead, there is the potential to consider extending from Broxbourne to Harlow, or perhaps even onwards to Stansted Airport? The issue is the location of Harlow Town station - it is in an inconvenient location to the north of the town. People living to the south of Harlow are almost as close to Epping station as they are to Harlow Town, and indeed there is an appreciable number of people who do drive or catch buses from the southern Harlow estates to Epping. This is likely to increase as the developments at Latton Priory and Water Lane take shape. A full-scale tube extension is unlikely ever to be built, unless a whole new town is built between Harlow and Epping. However there is definitely potential for a dedicated busway. |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 18, 2021 8:22:11 GMT
It sounds like a good idea if it was to use the Ongar branch, but sure this is not the intention, so imo could never see this happening and especially not now as TfL are in the red.Harlow's addition to London Underground proposed by councilA campaign to extend the London Underground further into Essex is being proposed by planners.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-58172373 This does raise the question though of providing rail capacity if Harlow's population could potentially increase by 50%. A Central Line extension could just about justify itself as the current National Rail stations in Harlow are poorly situated and there could be additional stations in Harlow's south-eastern suburbs, improving accessibility. Also people from Harlow do catch buses or drive to Epping already. If a full-scale Central Line extension is not justified, how about a dedicated busway linking direct to Epping Station? The Council would have to fund a busway, they are looking at options where someone else foots the bill. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 18, 2021 9:53:36 GMT
The split between Hainault and Epping is still fairly even. The fleet is being refurbished hopefully soon. Unfortunately whislt it is, there will be less available trains hence some small reductions to free them up to go for refurb. Not sure if the original plans will be given another go for the Hainalt shuttle to use 1 train split in 2 to allow the other to be sent away. I've always found the split fairly even although it can go either way, ie two successive Loughton/Epping trains. I used to use it a lot and found more trains going to the Hainault branch, especially in the evenings when trains would be going that way back to the depot. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 18, 2021 9:56:40 GMT
Even if funding were available, I would still question if priority should be given to considering this idea. Harlow is already well connected to London by Greater Anglia services to Liverpool Street, which are much faster than a Central Line extension would be. If there is an increase in demand at Harlow, measures could instead be looked at to increase capacity or frequency on Greater Anglia services. And if Crossrail 2 goes ahead, there is the potential to consider extending from Broxbourne to Harlow, or perhaps even onwards to Stansted Airport? The issue is the location of Harlow Town station - it is in an inconvenient location to the north of the town. People living to the south of Harlow are almost as close to Epping station as they are to Harlow Town, and indeed there is an appreciable number of people who do drive or catch buses from the southern Harlow estates to Epping. This is likely to increase as the developments at Latton Priory and Water Lane take shape. A full-scale tube extension is unlikely ever to be built, unless a whole new town is built between Harlow and Epping. However there is definitely potential for a dedicated busway. I do see the potential of the extension to Harlow, the distance is not that far, and around near the same as that if it were to go Ongar. It would not be that expensive as a lot of the extension could be above ground. Trouble is the funding, if TfL are in debt, it would be a no go. They are struggling for the Bakerloo extension or even the Crossrail to go further past Abbey Wood. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 18, 2021 10:26:44 GMT
I've always found the split fairly even although it can go either way, ie two successive Loughton/Epping trains. I used to use it a lot and found more trains going to the Hainault branch, especially in the evenings when trains would be going that way back to the depot. That is true about evenings to be fair but daytime seems pretty much an even split and I just randomly checked the next 11 eastbound departures from Liverpool Street and it shows a perfect even split. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 11:05:41 GMT
I used to use it a lot and found more trains going to the Hainault branch, especially in the evenings when trains would be going that way back to the depot. That is true about evenings to be fair but daytime seems pretty much an even split and I just randomly checked the next 11 eastbound departures from Liverpool Street and it shows a perfect even split. I've always found off peak to have an even split, with one train to Loughton/Epping and then one train to Hainault/Newbury Park. I know this has changed due to Covid so the Woodford to Hainault section operates as a shuttle service but definitely before Covid there was an even split as far as Hainault |
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 18, 2021 18:59:26 GMT
Even if funding were available, I would still question if priority should be given to considering this idea. Harlow is already well connected to London by Greater Anglia services to Liverpool Street, which are much faster than a Central Line extension would be. If there is an increase in demand at Harlow, measures could instead be looked at to increase capacity or frequency on Greater Anglia services. And if Crossrail 2 goes ahead, there is the potential to consider extending from Broxbourne to Harlow, or perhaps even onwards to Stansted Airport? The issue is the location of Harlow Town station - it is in an inconvenient location to the north of the town. People living to the south of Harlow are almost as close to Epping station as they are to Harlow Town, and indeed there is an appreciable number of people who do drive or catch buses from the southern Harlow estates to Epping. This is likely to increase as the developments at Latton Priory and Water Lane take shape. A full-scale tube extension is unlikely ever to be built, unless a whole new town is built between Harlow and Epping. However there is definitely potential for a dedicated busway. I can see that Harlow Town is perhaps not ideally located for areas to the south of Harlow. However, rather than a busway towards Epping, it might be cheaper to simply improve bus connections to/from Harlow Town for the faster services to Liverpool Street. Though some areas such as the developments you mention might be nearer to Harlow Mill or Roydon stations. |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 19, 2021 19:00:26 GMT
The issue is the location of Harlow Town station - it is in an inconvenient location to the north of the town. People living to the south of Harlow are almost as close to Epping station as they are to Harlow Town, and indeed there is an appreciable number of people who do drive or catch buses from the southern Harlow estates to Epping. This is likely to increase as the developments at Latton Priory and Water Lane take shape. A full-scale tube extension is unlikely ever to be built, unless a whole new town is built between Harlow and Epping. However there is definitely potential for a dedicated busway. I can see that Harlow Town is perhaps not ideally located for areas to the south of Harlow. However, rather than a busway towards Epping, it might be cheaper to simply improve bus connections to/from Harlow Town for the faster services to Liverpool Street. Though some areas such as the developments you mention might be nearer to Harlow Mill or Roydon stations. This Central Extension seems pointless to me maybe extend the Overground from Cheshunt to Harlow Town and also extend Zone 8 this wouldn't cost a lot of money maybe a extra train or two and some tweaking of the Timetables then have a dedicated bus with interchangeable fares to connect the Town/New Housing areas with the Station ? But failing that maybe a spur branch into the actual Town/New housing areas from the West Anglia Mainline ? Surely this would be cheaper and also could use the tfl brand to publicise it so would be similar to an underground extension . |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 19, 2021 19:13:39 GMT
I can see that Harlow Town is perhaps not ideally located for areas to the south of Harlow. However, rather than a busway towards Epping, it might be cheaper to simply improve bus connections to/from Harlow Town for the faster services to Liverpool Street. Though some areas such as the developments you mention might be nearer to Harlow Mill or Roydon stations. This Central Extension seems pointless to me maybe extend the Overground from Cheshunt to Harlow Town and also extend Zone 8 this wouldn't cost a lot of money maybe a extra train or two and some tweaking of the Timetables then have a dedicated bus with interchangeable fares to connect the Town/New Housing areas with the Station ? But failing that maybe a spur branch into the actual Town/New housing areas from the West Anglia Mainline ? Surely this would be cheaper and also could use the tfl brand to publicise it so would be similar to an underground extension . Probably run into National Rail abstraction issues if TfL tried that |
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Post by britishguy54 on Sept 11, 2021 11:46:48 GMT
Now this would be a good idea. Crossrail 2 going to Harlow and even Stansted Airport would be brilliant. Although extending travel card zones (more likely to give Contactless only though) would be really useful. |
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