|
Post by route53 on May 3, 2022 23:42:09 GMT
It's not a replacement, it's merely a change of roles, and, anyway, they run on the same route up to London Bridge. Cutting the TL service to Dartford will cause a rewrite of driver diagrams which will also enforce adding more drivers at Gillingham depot as drivers would need to pass from Gillingham depot to Dartford and stock would still need to be moved from Gillingham - Dartford during morning / late nights, TL currently have this issue with Ashford depot with our drivers are having to pass on SE service during the day and taxis very early morning / late nights, also currently the only available path via Greenwich is the unused off peak Cannon Street rounder return via Bexleyheath so if & when these return & if the Rainham services did skip stop stations between Deptford - Charlton would only have 4tph barring Greenwich which will still have 6tph also if TL did run via Lewisham this would free up paths via Greenwich but they would have to run on the slow lines through New Cross and would not be able to run via Fast Lines as currently you have the 19 & 49 past the hour SE Mainline services running and if it did take up the path of the 21 & 51 past the hour Dartford via Woolwich path then this would have a knock on effect on the Gatwick via Redhill services, Northbound there would be another issue with conflicting movements south of London Bridge. All of this would cause a rewrite of timetables for both TL & SE So basically that line is stuck with an inferior service then until the next big recast in a few years (hopefully) Personally a timetable rewrite would actually be worth it
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on May 4, 2022 8:22:17 GMT
There is no liklihood of the semi fast service returning, it was changed to a stopping service to provide a better service at stations that were previously non stopped. A stoping service should be from Dartford or Gravesend not Rainham! As I recall the stations not served by the old semi fasts had 6tph why is this inferior? Lots if stations in London would like 6tph but only have 4tph or 2tph. As I’ve said, and I’m going to be blunt, so what if Plumstead or Slade Green were skipped? They’re hardly major stations, they’re quiet minor suburban stations, hardly Abbey Wood or Woolwich Arsenal or even Blackheath or Greenwich, it’s unreasonable to expect outer suburban services to be made to call at such minor stations just because people at said stations don’t want to see a train run fast through their station. It would mean stations like Plumstead and Slade Green losing their direct service to Waterloo East and Charing Cross and the skip stops trains would probably just get stuck behind slow trains anyway.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on May 4, 2022 9:33:49 GMT
A stoping service should be from Dartford or Gravesend not Rainham! As I recall the stations not served by the old semi fasts had 6tph why is this inferior? Lots if stations in London would like 6tph but only have 4tph or 2tph. As I’ve said, and I’m going to be blunt, so what if Plumstead or Slade Green were skipped? They’re hardly major stations, they’re quiet minor suburban stations, hardly Abbey Wood or Woolwich Arsenal or even Blackheath or Greenwich, it’s unreasonable to expect outer suburban services to be made to call at such minor stations just because people at said stations don’t want to see a train run fast through their station. It would mean stations like Plumstead and Slade Green losing their direct service to Waterloo East and Charing Cross and the skip stops trains would probably just get stuck behind slow trains anyway. Again, and? So what if they lose Charing Cross, not a good enough reason as to why that line has a worse service since Thameslink was shoved through the line, CrossRail will whisk those from Plumstead, Belvedere, Erith and Slade Green off to the West End with a simple change at Abbey Wood or Woolwich, the fasts were never stuck behind the slows before in the old timetable.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on May 4, 2022 12:20:57 GMT
On the subject of the North Kent Line, why would it cost so much money and take so many years to extend the Elizabeth Line from Abbey Wood to Dartford or even Gravesend? Can’t they just take out the buffer at Abbey Wood and replace it with a junction that connects it with the North Kent Line to continue on to Dartford and Gravesend? If the Charing Cross to Gravesend via Sidcup services are cut back to Dartford, the Elizabeth Line services could take it’s place on Platform 0 at Gravesend.
|
|
|
Post by someone on May 4, 2022 15:51:35 GMT
Are you not suggesting curtailing the Thameslink service, then adding a SoutheEastern one? I’m not sure how curtailing the Luton to Rainham Thameslink service to Dartford, and extending the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham & Woolwich Arsenal Southeastern service to Rainham would be any better. It’s just swapping one metro stopping service to Rainham for another. It needs to be semi fast between London Bridge and Dartford, otherwise it’s too slow. Maybe do alternating services then: 1tph to Dartford stopping at more stations, and 1tph to Rainham stopping at fewer stations.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on May 4, 2022 17:22:55 GMT
I’m not sure how curtailing the Luton to Rainham Thameslink service to Dartford, and extending the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham & Woolwich Arsenal Southeastern service to Rainham would be any better. It’s just swapping one metro stopping service to Rainham for another. It needs to be semi fast between London Bridge and Dartford, otherwise it’s too slow. Maybe do alternating services then: 1tph to Dartford stopping at more stations, and 1tph to Rainham stopping at fewer stations. That’s a decent idea. I’d have the stopping one be St Albans to Dartford and the semi fast one be Bedford to Rainham if I was to do that.
|
|
|
Post by someone on May 7, 2022 18:37:15 GMT
Maybe do alternating services then: 1tph to Dartford stopping at more stations, and 1tph to Rainham stopping at fewer stations. That’s a decent idea. I’d have the stopping one be St Albans to Dartford and the semi fast one be Bedford to Rainham if I was to do that. Why St Albans City? Luton is probably the best choice of terminus, given that it has a link to the airport via Luton Airport PW station. If you cut the route back to St Albans City, you lose the connection to Luton Airport.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on May 7, 2022 22:58:26 GMT
That’s a decent idea. I’d have the stopping one be St Albans to Dartford and the semi fast one be Bedford to Rainham if I was to do that. Why St Albans City? Luton is probably the best choice of terminus, given that it has a link to the airport via Luton Airport PW station. If you cut the route back to St Albans City, you lose the connection to Luton Airport. Because Luton is too far from Central London to be the terminus of a tube style service, the same reason why Rainham is. It’s in Bedfordshire for christ sakes.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on May 8, 2022 4:52:02 GMT
Why St Albans City? Luton is probably the best choice of terminus, given that it has a link to the airport via Luton Airport PW station. If you cut the route back to St Albans City, you lose the connection to Luton Airport. Because Luton is too far from Central London to be the terminus of a tube style service, the same reason why Rainham is. It’s in Bedfordshire for christ sakes. Thameslink runs from Bedford to Brighton (for christ sake) I just don't get the negativity about Thameslink, I use it regularly and it's great although like anything else it can go wrong at times.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on May 8, 2022 9:57:29 GMT
Been going wrong since 2018….the much hyped Maidstone to Cambridge service has been axed indefinitely, the Catford loop which was promised services to North London & Hertfordshire at 4tph hasn’t happened and trains still terminate at the Blackfriars bays at 2tph and the useless Rainham service (and yes it is useless when compared to what CrossRail will eventually do) has been 1tph for most of its existence, the idea that it’s provided a better service than the old Gillingham service is utterly ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on May 8, 2022 10:04:46 GMT
Because Luton is too far from Central London to be the terminus of a tube style service, the same reason why Rainham is. It’s in Bedfordshire for christ sakes. Thameslink runs from Bedford to Brighton (for christ sake) I just don't get the negativity about Thameslink, I use it regularly and it's great although like anything else it can go wrong at times. Yes and it’s an inter city service running between towns about 40 miles or so north and south of London. It doesn’t stop at all the stations in London as well like a metro service. If it is to be Rainham to Luton it should be faster.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on May 8, 2022 10:07:39 GMT
Been going wrong since 2018….the much hyped Maidstone to Cambridge service has been axed indefinitely, the Catford loop which was promised services to North London & Hertfordshire at 4tph hasn’t happened and trains still terminate at the Blackfriars bays at 2tph and the useless Rainham service (and yes it is useless when compared to what CrossRail will eventually do) has been 1tph for most of its existence, the idea that it’s provided a better service than the old Gillingham service is utterly ridiculous. Don’t forget that instead of 2tph Maidstone East to Cambridge Thameslink services we’ve been given Maidstone East to Blackfriars Southeastern services.. about 4 or 5 of them a day !
|
|
|
Post by route53 on May 8, 2022 10:15:31 GMT
Been going wrong since 2018….the much hyped Maidstone to Cambridge service has been axed indefinitely, the Catford loop which was promised services to North London & Hertfordshire at 4tph hasn’t happened and trains still terminate at the Blackfriars bays at 2tph and the useless Rainham service (and yes it is useless when compared to what CrossRail will eventually do) has been 1tph for most of its existence, the idea that it’s provided a better service than the old Gillingham service is utterly ridiculous. Don’t forget that instead of 2tph Maidstone East to Cambridge Thameslink services we’ve been given Maidstone East to Blackfriars Southeastern services.. about 4 or 5 of them a day ! Indeed, and not even via London Bridge but via Bromley South and Elephant & Castle, at least north of the river the Cambridge service will revert from being a Thameslink service back to a Great Northern service which it essentially is now as it runs directly into Kings Cross rather than anywhere on the core section!
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on May 8, 2022 10:40:38 GMT
Thameslink runs from Bedford to Brighton (for christ sake) I just don't get the negativity about Thameslink, I use it regularly and it's great although like anything else it can go wrong at times. Yes and it’s an inter city service running between towns about 40 miles or so north and south of London. It doesn’t stop at all the stations in London as well like a metro service. If it is to be Rainham to Luton it should be faster. It doesn't really matter what stations it calls at, the Central Line serves all stations from Epping to West Ruislip. Thameslink is a mixture of local and longer distance services and I don't really see anything wrong with the current network although Dartford to Rainham could possibly be replaced by Southeastern but as @700101 explained in a previous post that isn't as simple as it appears. And with or without Thameslink there will be no return of a semi fast service on the North Kent line. It's disappointing that the Cambridge to Maidstone service hasn't happened but the Rainham service is being restored to 2tph whilst some Southeastern services are still reduced from pre covid levels.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on May 8, 2022 10:49:45 GMT
Yes and it’s an inter city service running between towns about 40 miles or so north and south of London. It doesn’t stop at all the stations in London as well like a metro service. If it is to be Rainham to Luton it should be faster. It doesn't really matter what stations it calls at, the Central Line serves all stations from Epping to West Ruislip. Thameslink is a mixture of local and longer distance services and I don't really see anything wrong with the current network although Dartford to Rainham could possibly be replaced by Southeastern but as @700101 explained in a previous post that isn't as simple as it appears. And with or without Thameslink there will be no return of a semi fast service on the North Kent line. It's disappointing that the Cambridge to Maidstone service hasn't happened but the Rainham service is being restored to 2tph whilst some Southeastern services are still reduced from pre covid levels. The Central line is a metro route in the true sense of the word and Epping is only just outside London, Medway is much further out, Thameslink’s problem is that it’s trying too hard to be both a mainline and a London’s second metro system, it can’t be both. If another timetable recast occurs then fast services could returns, I don’t see why we should be saddled with an inferior service indefinitely, the 2018 recast was flawed and it’s showing cracks now.
|
|