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Post by marc224 on Sept 28, 2021 19:36:36 GMT
Good day
my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London
I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit).
My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains?
Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.?
Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves?
What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen?
You would help me a lot
. I look forward to your reply
With kind regards
Marc-Marcel Moll
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Post by greenboy on Sept 28, 2021 19:43:32 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll Before automatic stop announcements passengers would generally have to fend for themselves. If you got on the bus you could ask the driver to let you know when the bus reached your stop although there was always the danger they would forget. Bus conductors would often announce stops but drivers rarely did so.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 28, 2021 20:30:49 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll Not really a response to the question but what an awesome name
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Post by vjaska on Sept 28, 2021 21:26:26 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll Can't really answer the train side as I'm not too knowledgeable on that front but in terms of the buses and growing up through the 90's, stops were never announced, not even on the few routes that I used at that time that had conductors. Passengers would have to look at publicity at bus stops but at that time, bus maps were very easy to get hold off as they'be stocked at bus stations, train stations and even newsagents at that time (my first map came from my local newsagent). The first time I remember displays at stops being introduced was the early Countdown screens in the 90's which only contained certain routes at bus stops - the display was in a red text which wasn't as clear as the orange we have today and the screens were very unreliable from memory. On board displays on buses (also known as I-Bus in London) were trialled in 2006 on the 149, announced in 2007 and fitted throughout 2008-2009 - when they fail, majority of drivers don't announce stops from my own observations
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Post by redexpress on Sept 28, 2021 21:51:37 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll The iBus system, which includes automated stop announcements, was rolled out across the whole fleet between 2007 and 2009. Prior to that there had been one or two trials on individual routes - I seem to remember some buses on the 18 were fitted with a basic system in the 1990s, but it didn't work very well. Buses didn't have satellite tracking in those days so it wasn't easy for an on-board system to know where the bus was!
My experience during the 1990s is that some conductors would announce the major stops, but many wouldn't announce any stops at all unless someone had asked them for a particular stop. It was very rare for a conductor to announce all stops on a route. And, as has been said, drivers of OPO (one-person operated) buses very rarely announced any stops at all. Many buses didn't have a working PA system anyway. Also minor bus stops often didn't have names, so there wasn't anything to announce even if they wanted to. I think there was a push to give every stop a name at some point in the 1990s.
If you weren't familiar with an area it was easy to miss your stop, but at least on buses you could look out of the window and read the street signs to get an idea of where you were. Things were a bit trickier on suburban trains. The Underground was not a problem because of the excellent signage on the platforms, but some of the quieter National Rail stations in the suburbs had very few signs on the platforms, so if you weren't paying attention you could easily miss your stop.
These days, if the automated system fails, most drivers will not announce stops. Some might announce the major stops. They will usually call out a particular stop if a passenger asks for it though.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 28, 2021 22:33:17 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll Can't really answer the train side as I'm not too knowledgeable on that front but in terms of the buses and growing up through the 90's, stops were never announced, not even on the few routes that I used at that time that had conductors. Passengers would have to look at publicity at bus stops but at that time, bus maps were very easy to get hold off as they'be stocked at bus stations, train stations and even newsagents at that time (my first map came from my local newsagent). The first time I remember displays at stops being introduced was the early Countdown screens in the 90's which only contained certain routes at bus stops - the display was in a red text which wasn't as clear as the orange we have today and the screens were very unreliable from memory. On board displays on buses (also known as I-Bus in London) were trialled in 2006 on the 149, announced in 2007 and fitted throughout 2008-2009 - when they fail, majority of drivers don't announce stops from my own observations on the train side (well DLR at least) before the automated announcements we would normally announce Interchanges and terminals. Today, we will still announce Interchange stations in addition to the automated system
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Post by Madstuntman on Oct 2, 2021 12:26:48 GMT
Before automatic stop announcements passengers would generally have to fend for themselves. If you got on the bus you could ask the driver to let you know when the bus reached your stop although there was always the danger they would forget. Bus conductors would often announce stops but drivers rarely did so. I remember once long before iBus a woman boarded my 126 at Bromley South Station. She said to me “can you let me know when we get to Plaistow Green please” I said yes and off we went. As I turned into Eltham Hight Street 45 minutes later she same up and asked if we had got to Plaistow Green yet?!? Oops I forgot. I apologised and told her to stay seated and I’d take her back the other way on the ticket she’d already bought. After that when people asked me to tell them I always replied “I’ll try to remember but I can’t promise” Then iBus got invented and I just told them to listen to the announcement/watch the screen.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2021 23:21:47 GMT
Good day my name is Marc Moll. I have a question and would greatly appreciate your help. I have been told that you are the person to contact. It's about the history of bus service in London I had a discussion with an acquaintance about bus stop announcements and displays in the (1970)s or 1980's and 1990's. I will also be writing a class paper on this topic (public transit). My first question is: When were automatic stop announcements and displays introduced on buses and trains? Did the bus driver and tram driver have to shout the stops into the microphone before there were automatic stop announcements and displays? Did bus drivers really do this when they had to announce the stops themselves? Or how were passengers supposed to know where the next stop was? What was it like in London . How was it handled in London by bus/streetcar drivers, did they do it meticulously, did most do it or only half, etc.? Are there many former bus drivers or others who rode the bus frequently in the 1980s/1990s who know what it was really like, or who experienced it themselves? What if the automatic stop announcements and displays on buses and trains fail nowadays, does the driver have to announce the stops as well? Does that sometimes happen? You would help me a lot . I look forward to your reply With kind regards Marc-Marcel Moll The iBus system, which includes automated stop announcements, was rolled out across the whole fleet between 2007 and 2009. Prior to that there had been one or two trials on individual routes - I seem to remember some buses on the 18 were fitted with a basic system in the 1990s, but it didn't work very well. Buses didn't have satellite tracking in those days so it wasn't easy for an on-board system to know where the bus was!
My experience during the 1990s is that some conductors would announce the major stops, but many wouldn't announce any stops at all unless someone had asked them for a particular stop. It was very rare for a conductor to announce all stops on a route. And, as has been said, drivers of OPO (one-person operated) buses very rarely announced any stops at all. Many buses didn't have a working PA system anyway. Also minor bus stops often didn't have names, so there wasn't anything to announce even if they wanted to. I think there was a push to give every stop a name at some point in the 1990s.
If you weren't familiar with an area it was easy to miss your stop, but at least on buses you could look out of the window and read the street signs to get an idea of where you were. Things were a bit trickier on suburban trains. The Underground was not a problem because of the excellent signage on the platforms, but some of the quieter National Rail stations in the suburbs had very few signs on the platforms, so if you weren't paying attention you could easily miss your stop.
These days, if the automated system fails, most drivers will not announce stops. Some might announce the major stops. They will usually call out a particular stop if a passenger asks for it though.
The first on board annoucement system we had with audi and screens was on the SLW type buses. I believe the LLW's may have had this, they were on the 186 and a London United route IIRC. The SLW's were on route 144 and 101. They were introduced in 1994 and had a counter on the roadwheels. It could be reset by the driver at each end of the route. If the bus went off line of route whilst in service this also never went down well as the stops would be in the wrong place. Other countries like in the USA and Canada had similar on board announcement systems via GPS before we had ibus. I believe they got them early 2000's As for microphone PA. Some operators like Arriva fitted their buses when new, DLA, DLP, PDL etc with microphones so that drivers could do announcements. LT fitted these back in the 80s to Leyland Titans and Metrobuses, but after no longer bothered fitting them. Bus stop names started to appear during the 1990's in London on the flag with the new design what we see today. Prior to this it was only a few shelters, mainly at stations that had the stop name onto it. Bus drivers would not have shout stop names, not even conductors. This may have only been done to let a passenger who asked where to get off at a certain point along the route. Automated announcements on London Underground first came with the 1992 stock what is now on the central line. I believe the first internal digital screen were on the Jubilee & Northern line 96 stock.
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Post by marc224 on Oct 4, 2021 20:20:41 GMT
Hello, thank you all first of all for the interesting news.
It's interesting to hear about the past.
I have to say that bus services in London were not very customer friendly in the past. Theoretically the bus drivers or conductors could have announced the stops, but they didn't. Why not? I don't understand that. London used to be a cosmopolitan city and there were always a lot of people from outside London who found it difficult to travel by bus.
In the 1980/ 1990 years most buses had conductors on board didn't they? Most conductors didn't announce stops either did they? What percentage of bus drivers and conductors did you think announced the bus stops? 20- 30 percent or less?
One person had written that there was already automatic stop announcement in the USA. Can anyone tell me whether bus drivers in the USA always announced the stops? Or does anyone know of another country/city where the bus drivers announced the stops?
I look forward to your further messages
Many greetings
Marc
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 4, 2021 22:12:07 GMT
Hello, thank you all first of all for the interesting news. It's interesting to hear about the past. I have to say that bus services in London were not very customer friendly in the past. Theoretically the bus drivers or conductors could have announced the stops, but they didn't. Why not? I don't understand that. London used to be a cosmopolitan city and there were always a lot of people from outside London who found it difficult to travel by bus. In the 1980/ 1990 years most buses had conductors on board didn't they? Most conductors didn't announce stops either did they? What percentage of bus drivers and conductors did you think announced the bus stops? 20- 30 percent or less? One person had written that there was already automatic stop announcement in the USA. Can anyone tell me whether bus drivers in the USA always announced the stops? Or does anyone know of another country/city where the bus drivers announced the stops? I look forward to your further messages Many greetings Marc I would not say that they were not customer friendly. It was down to people. If a conductor kept announcing every stop, the public would have thought he was crazy. initially many did not want the ibus announcements at every stop saying ti was annoying and intrusive, now it is like second nature. It would not have been practical for a driver to do this at every stop, that would then require them to stop at every stop. It would breach driving rules and could end up with a fine or prosecution for using the mic whilst driving, or even worst if they were taking their hands of the road to press the mic to speak before they went past every stop. I would not say most buses had conductors in the 80's and definitely not in the 90's. A lot of routes in the 80's were OPO or (OMO) as they had previously been billed. During the 70's and 60's then yes it was predominately crewed buses. Bus drivers in the states did not announced stops at every stop prior to their ibus either. It is the same way as on a train we never got these announcements and it could have been done as in effect a train would stop at every scheduled stop where a bus would not.
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Post by marc224 on Oct 5, 2021 20:17:06 GMT
Hello capital omnibus,
One more question, in the 1980/1990s, did the drivers / conductors not call out any stops at all, or only the most important ones?
I mean now in London but also in the USA?
Thanks again
Many greetings Marc
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Post by vjaska on Oct 5, 2021 20:59:14 GMT
Hello capital omnibus, One more question, in the 1980/1990s, did the drivers / conductors not call out any stops at all, or only the most important ones? I mean now in London but also in the USA? Thanks again Many greetings Marc None of the conductors that I had on the 137 or 159 ever called stops out be it minor or major ones, all they did (or some did) is collect fares and that includes the few crewed OMO buses I used.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2021 20:34:04 GMT
Hello capital omnibus, One more question, in the 1980/1990s, did the drivers / conductors not call out any stops at all, or only the most important ones? I mean now in London but also in the USA? Thanks again Many greetings Marc No they did not, it was only if people had asked them to tell them were a certain stop is. So if someone boarded in Islington who wanted to go Hyde Park on the 38. The conductor would have shout out Hyde Park Corner when they got to that stop.
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Post by marc224 on Feb 24, 2022 11:06:00 GMT
I have heard that bus drivers in Austria, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands always announced the stops without being asked in the 1970/1980/1990s.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 24, 2022 11:15:32 GMT
I have heard that bus drivers in Austria, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands always announced the stops without being asked in the 1970/1980/1990s. Although notably this is London, and usually if the driver keeps announcing stuff down the tannoy every couple of seconds it'll probably just annoy the passengers instead of being much use.
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