Route 242 (Metroline/Herts)

[djs76]

I've just been viewing the latest timetable for this route and can't believe what an irregular service it has become. Only 4 buses M-F and 2 on Saturday now serve Potters Bar (there are actually more on a Sunday!). Cuffley gets a few more buses and even the regular service between Cheshunt and Waltham Cross sees gaps of 60 minutes at various times during the day. And the last bus of the day leaves Waltham Cross just after 6pm!
Only 20 years ago, there were double deckers running every 30 minutes end to end (60 mins on Sunday) with buses running until after 11pm. Now there are single deckers (probably only 2 or 3 allocated) shuttling around, hardly a way of encouraging people to use the bus. I used to love a ride on the upper deck through Cuffley and Northaw, something that doesn't seem possible these days.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2021 10:00:12 GMT djs76 said:

I've just been viewing the latest timetable for this route and can't believe what an irregular service it has become. Only 4 buses M-F and 2 in Saturday now serve Potters Bar (there are actually more in a Sunday!). Cuffley gets a few more buses and even the regular service between Cheshunt and Waltham Cross sees gaps of 60 minutes at various times during the day. And the last bus of the day leaves Waltham Cross just after 6pm!
Only 20 years ago, there were double deckers running every 30 minutes end to end (60 mins on Sunday) with buses running until after 11pm. Now there are single deckers (probably only 2 or 3 allocated) shuttling around, hardly a way of encouraging people to use the bus. I used to love a ride on the upper deck through Cuffley and Northaw, something that doesn't seem impossible these days.

Whenever I travelled up that neck of the woods a ride on a double deck 242 from Potters Bar to Waltham Cross was always a treat.  I agree a shame, can’t be financially viable though now ?

[kmkcheng]

Nov 12, 2021 10:00:12 GMT djs76 said:

I've just been viewing the latest timetable for this route and can't believe what an irregular service it has become. Only 4 buses M-F and 2 in Saturday now serve Potters Bar (there are actually more in a Sunday!). Cuffley gets a few more buses and even the regular service between Cheshunt and Waltham Cross sees gaps of 60 minutes at various times during the day. And the last bus of the day leaves Waltham Cross just after 6pm!
Only 20 years ago, there were double deckers running every 30 minutes end to end (60 mins on Sunday) with buses running until after 11pm. Now there are single deckers (probably only 2 or 3 allocated) shuttling around, hardly a way of encouraging people to use the bus. I used to love a ride on the upper deck through Cuffley and Northaw, something that doesn't seem impossible these days.

Unfortunately it is really the Waltham Cross to Brookfield Centre that has become commercially viable. If it wasn’t for the school journeys and the route being based at PB, the Potters Bar section would have been withdrawn altogether.

[LondonNorthern]

The 398 has had a similar fate. I don't think that's commercially viable either. It doesn't even reach Elstree & Borehamwood Station, surely that's something of interest to punters?

If the 398 did that I'm sure it would give it more purpose especially as it is a speedy link down the A1. Add in 20 year old Ex London deckers and it's an absolute treat.

[kmkcheng]

Also one of the main reasons for the 242 now being unviable at the Potters Bar end is it has to compete with the TfL hopper fare where you can get from Potters Bar to Waltham Cross via the 313 and 317 for £1.55

[wirewiper]

Nov 12, 2021 16:25:04 GMT LondonNorthern said:

The 398 has had a similar fate. I don't think that's commercially viable either. It doesn't even reach Elstree & Borehamwood Station, surely that's something of interest to punters?

If the 398 did that I'm sure it would give it more purpose especially as it is a speedy link down the A1. Add in 20 year old Ex London deckers and it's an absolute treat.

I don't think extending the route to Elstree & Borehamwood Station would generate enough custom to justify the extra running time through Borehamwood Town Centre. Most people in South Mimms - assuming they would use a bus at all - would simply take the 84 to Potters Bar Station. 

However, if Hertfordshire County Council's Bus Back Better bid is successful, the link may have a role as part of a supported wider orbital route network. 

[LondonNorthern]

Nov 12, 2021 16:51:10 GMT wirewiper said:

Nov 12, 2021 16:25:04 GMT LondonNorthern said:

The 398 has had a similar fate. I don't think that's commercially viable either. It doesn't even reach Elstree & Borehamwood Station, surely that's something of interest to punters?

If the 398 did that I'm sure it would give it more purpose especially as it is a speedy link down the A1. Add in 20 year old Ex London deckers and it's an absolute treat.

I don't think extending the route to Elstree & Borehamwood Station would generate enough custom to justify the extra running time through Borehamwood Town Centre. Most people in South Mimms - assuming they would use a bus at all - would simply take the 84 to Potters Bar Station. 

However, if Hertfordshire County Council's Bus Back Better bid is successful, the link may have a role as part of a supported wider orbital route network. 

The other option could be extending Metroline's Commercial 305 to Clare Hall from PB Bus Garage, I think that would be a more suited of demand with the 398 discontinued. The second option could be diverting the 84 via Clare Hall but then this begs the question, what is there in the Clare Hall/Ridge area other than a few houses? If either suggestions took place (the 305 would be beter because the 84 would cost more money due to the freq it runs at) the 398s school journeys would obviously be continued. But it really is such a shame that once a useful route has been shrivelled up into such a route.

[LondonNorthern]

Nov 12, 2021 16:49:19 GMT kmkcheng said:

Also one of the main reasons for the 242 now being unviable at the Potters Bar end is it has to compete with the TfL hopper fare where you can get from Potters Bar to Waltham Cross via the 313 and 317 for £1.55

I don't think that's had much impact because if I were to do such a journey I wouldn't head straight into London to then change and potentially travel through travel filled areas like the A10, I think I'd stick to country lanes personally.

[LondonNorthern]

Nov 12, 2021 10:00:12 GMT djs76 said:

I've just been viewing the latest timetable for this route and can't believe what an irregular service it has become. Only 4 buses M-F and 2 on Saturday now serve Potters Bar (there are actually more on a Sunday!). Cuffley gets a few more buses and even the regular service between Cheshunt and Waltham Cross sees gaps of 60 minutes at various times during the day. And the last bus of the day leaves Waltham Cross just after 6pm!
Only 20 years ago, there were double deckers running every 30 minutes end to end (60 mins on Sunday) with buses running until after 11pm. Now there are single deckers (probably only 2 or 3 allocated) shuttling around, hardly a way of encouraging people to use the bus. I used to love a ride on the upper deck through Cuffley and Northaw, something that doesn't seem possible these days.

Might open a can of worms here, but in regards to Cuffley and the level of service perhaps not being adequate, perhaps the 456 could be extended to Cuffley? I imagine the W10 cutback 13 years ago moots this completely, but it would increase connectivity to and from Cuffley quite a lot (whilst providing a link to Crews Hill Station) however the argument could be Great Northern provides a 2bph service between Crews Hill/Enfield Chase & Cuffley.

[kmkcheng]

Nov 12, 2021 17:10:44 GMT LondonNorthern said:

Nov 12, 2021 16:49:19 GMT kmkcheng said:

Also one of the main reasons for the 242 now being unviable at the Potters Bar end is it has to compete with the TfL hopper fare where you can get from Potters Bar to Waltham Cross via the 313 and 317 for £1.55

I don't think that's had much impact because if I were to do such a journey I wouldn't head straight into London to then change and potentially travel through travel filled areas like the A10, I think I'd stick to country lanes personally.

Passengers won’t care about the traffic if it saves them money. The same thing happens on the Borehamwood to Watford corridor where passengers rather use the 107 and 142 than the direct 306

[kmkcheng]

Nov 12, 2021 17:05:31 GMT LondonNorthern said:

Nov 12, 2021 16:51:10 GMT wirewiper said:

I don't think extending the route to Elstree & Borehamwood Station would generate enough custom to justify the extra running time through Borehamwood Town Centre. Most people in South Mimms - assuming they would use a bus at all - would simply take the 84 to Potters Bar Station. 

However, if Hertfordshire County Council's Bus Back Better bid is successful, the link may have a role as part of a supported wider orbital route network. 

The other option could be extending Metroline's Commercial 305 to Clare Hall from PB Bus Garage, I think that would be a more suited of demand with the 398 discontinued. The second option could be diverting the 84 via Clare Hall but then this begs the question, what is there in the Clare Hall/Ridge area other than a few houses? If either suggestions took place (the 305 would be beter because the 84 would cost more money due to the freq it runs at) the 398s school journeys would obviously be continued. But it really is such a shame that once a useful route has been shrivelled up into such a route.

The 305 isn’t a commercial service, it is a tendered HCC service connecting St. Albans with outlying villages. The Potters Bar section is just garage journeys made live, from PB in the morning and to PB in the evening. HCC won’t fund a big extension to the 305. If HCC wanted to fund a service to Clare Hall, they would pay to have either the 84 or 398 divert through there

[vjaska]

Nov 12, 2021 17:13:44 GMT LondonNorthern said:

Nov 12, 2021 10:00:12 GMT djs76 said:

I've just been viewing the latest timetable for this route and can't believe what an irregular service it has become. Only 4 buses M-F and 2 on Saturday now serve Potters Bar (there are actually more on a Sunday!). Cuffley gets a few more buses and even the regular service between Cheshunt and Waltham Cross sees gaps of 60 minutes at various times during the day. And the last bus of the day leaves Waltham Cross just after 6pm!
Only 20 years ago, there were double deckers running every 30 minutes end to end (60 mins on Sunday) with buses running until after 11pm. Now there are single deckers (probably only 2 or 3 allocated) shuttling around, hardly a way of encouraging people to use the bus. I used to love a ride on the upper deck through Cuffley and Northaw, something that doesn't seem possible these days.

Might open a can of worms here, but in regards to Cuffley and the level of service perhaps not being adequate, perhaps the 456 could be extended to Cuffley? I imagine the W10 cutback 13 years ago moots this completely, but it would increase connectivity to and from Cuffley quite a lot (whilst providing a link to Crews Hill Station) however the argument could be Great Northern provides a 2bph service between Crews Hill/Enfield Chase & Cuffley.

TfL won't extend the 456 further north as it has no interest in new cross border routes with Cuffley being in Hertfordshire unlike Crews Hill which is in Enfield. The Cuffley extension on the W10 only lasted 5 years for whatever reason, presumably ended up needing an extra bus or something?