Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 21:44:16 GMT
Those on here who know more about timetabling than me may know the answer to this, but I was wondering whether the N271 running to North Finchley had anything to do with the most effective use of the allocated vehicles. To elaborate, the N271 can't turn in Highgate Village anymore so has to be extended. If this required extra vehicles to reach the next logical stand anyway, might it be a better use to continue to North Finchley rather than giving a longer layover? (Not sure about using the N271 number as it inhibits the reuse of 271 but there we are.) Probably renumber it the N263 as most of the route follows the 263
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 22, 2022 21:46:35 GMT
Those on here who know more about timetabling than me may know the answer to this, but I was wondering whether the N271 running to North Finchley had anything to do with the most effective use of the allocated vehicles. To elaborate, the N271 can't turn in Highgate Village anymore so has to be extended. If this required extra vehicles to reach the next logical stand anyway, might it be a better use to continue to North Finchley rather than giving a longer layover? (Not sure about using the N271 number as it inhibits the reuse of 271 but there we are.) Probably renumber it the N263 as most of the route follows the 263 That would be silly because it doesn't follow the 263 past North Finchley. I think N271 should be okay.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 21:50:37 GMT
Probably renumber it the N263 as most of the route follows the 263 That would be silly because it doesn't follow the 263 past North Finchley. I think N271 should be okay. But it don't make sense as the daily 271 wouldn't even exist
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 22, 2022 22:01:37 GMT
That would be silly because it doesn't follow the 263 past North Finchley. I think N271 should be okay. But it don't make sense as the daily 271 wouldn't even exist Not really. There have been plenty of numbers used in the past and some still today containing numbers that don't exist.
The 271 has been a route since the 1960s so I imagine Canonbury/Highbury/Holloway/Archway/Highgate know exactly what route they are on about.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Mar 22, 2022 22:34:51 GMT
I may be missing something, but I would have thought the N271 reaching somewhere served by several other night routes has the big plus point of enabling bus-to-bus interchange at night?
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 22, 2022 22:36:05 GMT
But it don't make sense as the daily 271 wouldn't even exist Not really. There have been plenty of numbers used in the past and some still today containing numbers that don't exist. The 271 has been a route since the 1960s so I imagine Canonbury/Highbury/Holloway/Archway/Highgate know exactly what route they are on about.
Then number it with a brand new number because it’s very odd to lose a day route number but introduce a night route using the same number
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 22, 2022 22:40:01 GMT
Not really. There have been plenty of numbers used in the past and some still today containing numbers that don't exist. The 271 has been a route since the 1960s so I imagine Canonbury/Highbury/Holloway/Archway/Highgate know exactly what route they are on about.
Then number it with a brand new number because it’s very odd to lose a day route number but introduce a night route using the same number Except it’s a notorious number in the areas it serves as I’ve mentioned & whilst it could be slightly confusing north of Highgate I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with happening & that’s coming from someone who knows the areas it serves well.
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 22, 2022 22:49:05 GMT
As expected, all proposals going ahead other than minor changes around Archway. However, with TFL making cuts, I'm still surprised with the N271 proposal. I'm not convinced there is much demand for a night service along Finchley High Road. If anything, the N20 could possibly have diverted there instead of East End Road. Most of the area around East End Road is in walking distance to Finchley High Road, Regents Park Road (N13) or Falloden Way (102N), and the N13 is probably sufficient at Finchley Central to/from Central London. And on the rest of the N271 section between Highgate and Moorgate, the 43 covers most links, only omitting Highgate Village and New North Road. There's also the 76 & 214's night services covering some sections. Or similar to some suggestions with the 1/168 changes, another possibility might have been to make the revised 21 a 24-hour route between Lewisham and Holloway, then provide a new night service to replace the N21. This could also operate more directly towards the West End rather than going via the City. As the N89 also links Bexleyheath to Central London, perhaps the 321's night service could instead extend from New Cross Gate to Central London, then increase the 132's night service to every night if there is demand in the Bexley area? The N271 going all the way to North Finchley with the N20 already on East End Road and the 13 and 134 going to North Finchley too, so that it has four night buses, is really excessive. I reckon someone at TfL lives in North Finchley what with the 112, 125 and 383 recent extensions as well. They should at least make the N271 go to East/New Barnet or Mill Hill East, which have zero night buses, if they are going to run it as far north as North Finchley. This is why I take their moaning about having no money with a pinch of salt. They still have enough to spend where and when they want to. There would be little demand I reckon for a N271 to either of those destinations, especially Mill Hill East. I reckon if either areas needed a night service I think an introduction of a 24 hour 221/307 would be a better idea given they interchange with plenty of night routes (221 interchanges with N13/N16/N20/N43/N91/N113/N134 and has great orbital links whilst the 307 interchanges with the N20/N29/N91/N279). I will be controversial here and say that not every nook and cranny in the network needs to have a night bus. This is a controversial statement but some areas really stop having demand as soon as say 9/10pm hits or as soon as the last tubes finish, and then in some upper class areas the minicab trade tends to be the preferable option. East End Road for example at night is so quiet you could hear a pin drop but come 6/7am it’s a completely different story passenger number wise so I don’t think it really needs a night service. Some areas like Upper Belvedere however look to be completely starved of a night service though & with the area being very industrial it likely has lots of night time workers especially with companies such as Ocado, so likely needs one. And this is why I’ve said there really needs to be a rationalisation across the board with North London with night services because demand is not being accurately represented in some parts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 23:06:56 GMT
Not really. There have been plenty of numbers used in the past and some still today containing numbers that don't exist. The 271 has been a route since the 1960s so I imagine Canonbury/Highbury/Holloway/Archway/Highgate know exactly what route they are on about.
Then number it with a brand new number because it’s very odd to lose a day route number but introduce a night route using the same number Maybe they should've just numbered it N71. Nice and simple, brand new and not confusing it with daytime routes.
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Mar 22, 2022 23:14:00 GMT
Then number it with a brand new number because it’s very odd to lose a day route number but introduce a night route using the same number Maybe they should've just numbered it N71. Nice and simple, brand new and not confusing it with daytime routes. That’s not a bad call at all. There’s never likely to be an N71 mirroring the day 71.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 22, 2022 23:27:27 GMT
Then number it with a brand new number because it’s very odd to lose a day route number but introduce a night route using the same number Except it’s a notorious number in the areas it serves as I’ve mentioned & whilst it could be slightly confusing north of Highgate I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with happening & that’s coming from someone who knows the areas it serves well. It's a familiar number in terms of a day route but that day route won't exist anymore whilst the N prefix hasn't existed since 2004 and was only introduced a year before so not sure if that's familiar. Meanwhile, the new night route follows the 263 from North Finchley to Highbury & Islington especially with the 263 being re-routed as well so londonbuses184 original suggestion of a N263 number sounds perfectly fair to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2022 23:31:32 GMT
Except it’s a notorious number in the areas it serves as I’ve mentioned & whilst it could be slightly confusing north of Highgate I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with happening & that’s coming from someone who knows the areas it serves well. It's a familiar number in terms of a day route but that day route won't exist anymore whilst the N prefix hasn't existed since 2004 and was only introduced a year before so not sure if that's familiar. Meanwhile, the new night route follows the 263 from North Finchley to Highbury & Islington especially with the 263 being re-routed as well so londonbuses184 original suggestion of a N263 number sounds perfectly fair to me. Or as I pointed out in my last post N71 which tbh I think sounds way better. If it were to run to Barnet Hospital then 100% number it the N263 but the N20 already does the job and right now does most of the current 263 between Barnet and Archway except the North Finchley-East Finchley section but isn't numbered the N263 so you would probably be better of keeping that way for the time being and just number it N71 to replace the daytime 271 and not have it as N271 for the sake of the public's misunderstanding.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 23, 2022 1:12:50 GMT
It's a familiar number in terms of a day route but that day route won't exist anymore whilst the N prefix hasn't existed since 2004 and was only introduced a year before so not sure if that's familiar. Meanwhile, the new night route follows the 263 from North Finchley to Highbury & Islington especially with the 263 being re-routed as well so londonbuses184 original suggestion of a N263 number sounds perfectly fair to me. Or as I pointed out in my last post N71 which tbh I think sounds way better. If it were to run to Barnet Hospital then 100% number it the N263 but the N20 already does the job and right now does most of the current 263 between Barnet and Archway except the North Finchley-East Finchley section but isn't numbered the N263 so you would probably be better of keeping that way for the time being and just number it N71 to replace the daytime 271 and not have it as N271 for the sake of the public's misunderstanding. I saw your N71 suggestion, no issues from me on that though I do think N263 makes a lot of sense as well
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 23, 2022 6:18:00 GMT
Except it’s a notorious number in the areas it serves as I’ve mentioned & whilst it could be slightly confusing north of Highgate I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with happening & that’s coming from someone who knows the areas it serves well. It's a familiar number in terms of a day route but that day route won't exist anymore whilst the N prefix hasn't existed since 2004 and was only introduced a year before so not sure if that's familiar. Meanwhile, the new night route follows the 263 from North Finchley to Highbury & Islington especially with the 263 being re-routed as well so londonbuses184 original suggestion of a N263 number sounds perfectly fair to me. Or even just N571 like has been suggested previously. I doubt there have been many issues with the N20 which has no daytime equivalent in that neck of the woods (I’ve certainly not had a problem with it), the N5 which has no daytime equivalent nor the N550/N551 of which have run with no route that necessarily exists alongside it, and from 95 until 2008 was numbered N50. There were plenty of other examples going back through the 80s & 90s.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 23, 2022 10:21:05 GMT
It's a familiar number in terms of a day route but that day route won't exist anymore whilst the N prefix hasn't existed since 2004 and was only introduced a year before so not sure if that's familiar. Meanwhile, the new night route follows the 263 from North Finchley to Highbury & Islington especially with the 263 being re-routed as well so londonbuses184 original suggestion of a N263 number sounds perfectly fair to me. Or even just N571 like has been suggested previously. I doubt there have been many issues with the N20 which has no daytime equivalent in that neck of the woods (I’ve certainly not had a problem with it), the N5 which has no daytime equivalent nor the N550/N551 of which have run with no route that necessarily exists alongside it, and from 95 until 2008 was numbered N50. There were plenty of other examples going back through the 80s & 90s. The examples you listed aren’t the same - there was no daytime equivalent in those areas before those night routes were introduced and unlike using the N271 number, there was actual logic behind a lot of those numbers
|
|