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Post by londonbuses184 on Jan 24, 2023 18:33:06 GMT
Two weeks to go. Seems a bit premature to me but trying to understand TfL logic is near impossible these days. Two weeks early is definitely better than however many weeks late, judging by TfL's track record in recent years. The last wholesale changes were in east London in May; non-conflicting changes like putting the 104 tiles on Woolwich Manor Way and the 304 tiles on Lonsdale Avenue were done in the days before the change. Timetable updates took much longer, closer to a month to swap the old 104 ones in East Ham. I remember when the 112 got the extension to North Finchley I also saw 383 tiles at North Finchley. I was confused as to why they were there but it came out that the 383 would be extended to Finchley Memorial Hospital. This was 2 months before the extension commenced.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 24, 2023 18:56:37 GMT
Two weeks early is definitely better than however many weeks late, judging by TfL's track record in recent years. The last wholesale changes were in east London in May; non-conflicting changes like putting the 104 tiles on Woolwich Manor Way and the 304 tiles on Lonsdale Avenue were done in the days before the change. Timetable updates took much longer, closer to a month to swap the old 104 ones in East Ham. I remember when the 112 got the extension to North Finchley I also saw 383 tiles at North Finchley. I was confused as to why they were there but it came out that the 383 would be extended to Finchley Memorial Hospital. This was 2 months before the extension commenced. I remember Barnes was a total mess with new titles for changes that never happened.
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Post by mkay315 on Jan 26, 2023 9:29:16 GMT
Folks I hope you're getting your 271 journey's in before it goes.
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Post by mkay315 on Jan 26, 2023 9:32:52 GMT
The 263 I do feel as though I need to do the route fully again to time how long it is end to end. Heck I remembered the days it only used to go as far as Archway but with two extensions over the last 15 years to Holloway and Highbury respectively.
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Post by rif153 on Jan 26, 2023 14:23:53 GMT
Anyone know what time the final 271 will be?
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Post by YX10FFN on Jan 26, 2023 14:42:36 GMT
Anyone know what time the final 271 will be? 0015 departure from Moorgate. Gets into Highgate at 0045.
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Post by northlondon83 on Feb 1, 2023 15:13:08 GMT
Was the 391 the most recent day route to be withdrawn before the 271
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Post by VMH2537 on Feb 1, 2023 15:15:34 GMT
Was the 391 the most recent day route to be withdrawn before the 271 I think the W10 was the most recent day route withdrawn
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Post by londontravel on Feb 2, 2023 7:30:55 GMT
Are Metroline going to run any heritage buses on the last day of route 271?
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 2, 2023 10:15:33 GMT
Here's Roger French's take on the Highgate Village terminus which closes after tomorrow, it is one of his favourite terminals. busandtrainuser.com/2023/02/02/my-favourite-london-bus-terminus-terminates-tomorrow/===================================== And here is my tribute to the 271 and its predecessors: The terminus at Highgate Village came into use on 10th December 1939, when the no. 11 tram was replaced by the 611 trolleybus. The 271 is the direct successor of both these routes and remains pretty much unchanged until it is withdrawn completely after Friday 3rd February. The 611 trolleybus was a consistently high earner for London Transport's tram and trolleybus department, but was something of a headache to operate. Difficulties in securing a suitable terminus in Highgate Village, and opposition to plans to run along North Road and North Hill to North Finchley, delayed its introduction and the steepness of Highgate Hill meant the route had to be operated with specially-adapted trolleybuses. Tram 11 had terminated in a stub in Highgate High Street; while this was fine for the trams as the driver just changed ends and the tram went back the way it came, trolleybuses needed a turning circle! London Transport posited three plans: a loop via Southwood Lane, Castle Yard and North Road; extending the route along North Road and constructing a turning circle 60 yards north of the junction with Castle Yard; and extending the route to North Finchley via North Road and North Hill (with corresponding reductions on routes 517/617). However all these extensions took the route over the London County Council boundary, and were all objected to by Middlesex County Council, Hornsey Metropolitan Borough Council and Highgate School, the latter citing dangers to school children - all the proposals involved trolleybuses passing the school. Eventually London Transport managed to secure a site at the junction of Highgate High Street and The Grove, close to the tram terminus and just within the London County Council boundary (presumably this involved the expense of compulsory purchase and demolition of property on the corner), and built a terminus large enough to hold two trolleybuses. This terminus is still used by the 611's successor, the 271 bus, today. Having been planned for 4th September 1938, tram 11 was finally replaced on 10th December 1939; it was the last tram route to operate in North London aside from the three routes which used the Kingsway Subway in Holborn. As for North Road and North Hill, it would be February 1973 before they saw a bus service, when the 143 was diverted via Highgate Village instead of Archway Road. Parts of Highgate Hill are as steep as 1 in 10, so the Ministry of Transport required all trolleybuses using the hill to be fitted with run-back and coasting brakes. London Transport had to order a fleet of trolleybuses specifically for the route, the J3 and L1 classes. They were ordered before the extension to North Finchley was dropped so there were more than needed; however a related proposal to reduce routes 517/617 also had to be dropped, so the surplus buses were used on other routes at Highgate. Occasionally this meant that, when a 611 needed to be substituted at short notice, there was no J3 or L1 vehicle available and another type had to be used. When this happened the northbound journey would be curtailed at Archway Station and the vehicle would pick up its southbound time from there, and lost mileage would be incurred. Even at the end, London Transport seemed unsure about what to do with the route. In 1957 the route was considered for trial running of Routemaster buses, but this was dropped as it would have meant a long period of dual trolleybus and motor bus operation at Highgate Depot. From then on it was continually proposed for early conversion, but London Transport never seemed sure when to schedule it, or why it should be converted early; was it to remove the requirement for "special vehicles", to even out the number of buses required at each stage of the trolleybus-to-motor bus conversion, or because the route was "self-contained" - there was no working onto and off other routes, otherwise a very common feature of trolleybus operation? In the event the route was replaced by bus 271 after Tuesday 19th July 1960. Highgate's other routes were not converted until 31st January 1961, apart from the 627 which survived until 25th April 1961. Initially, HT only had sixteen Routemasters allocated for the 271 which had a PVR on weekdays of 15, and as an extra vehicle was required on Saturdays one Routemaster was borrowed from Shepherd's Bush and operated with running number HT 116. This practice was no longer necessary after January 1961. The 271 had an experimental allocation of crew-operated Leyland Atlanteans (the XA class) from 1st December 1965* until 9th July 1966; from April some of the XAs were swapped with Daimler Fleetlines (the XF class) for comparison purposes; these were loaned in from the Country Division and plied up and down the 271 route in their green livery. From 10th July 1966 the 271 reverted to Routemaster operation, but this time with of the longer RML version. These lasted until 15th January 1971; the following day the routes was converted to driver-only operation with DMS vehicles, one of the first routes in London to be converted to One-Man (sic) Operation using double-deckers. HT was also renamed from Highgate to Holloway Garage at around this time, following the closure of the old Holloway (J) Bus Garage the previous year - the housing development Cornwallis Square now occupies most of the site. The 271 (and its tram and trolleybus predecessors) have always been operated by HT, apart from a couple of spells elsewhere. From 22nd September 1990 until 24th May 1991 it was operated from the now-closed Chalk Farm (CF) Garage; it also changed from M Metrobus to T Titan operation during this period. From 25th September 1993 until 26th April 1996 it was contracted out to London Suburban Bus and operated from a base in Edmonton - it returned to HT when London Suburban Bus was bought out by MTL London. The route's terminals have been pretty consistent too; it has never operated north of Highgate Village, except on Sundays from 6th June 1987 to 2nd February 1991 when it was extended on Sundays to Hendon Central Station, replacing the 143 on that day. The short extension from Finsbury Square to Liverpool Street first appeared only from 16th May 1992, initially at weekends only, and its history has been chequered since. The route was cut back to Finsbury Square at all times from 18th June 2011 when Liverpool Street Bus Station was closed for Crossrail construction work - this was expected to last five years but in the event, it would never return. Recalling the 271 and its Highgate Village Terminus: Metroline's TP51 (V751 HBY) on stand, 26th May 2011. Highgate Village by Julian Walker, on Flickr
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Post by T.R. on Feb 2, 2023 10:31:22 GMT
Here's Roger French's take on the Highgate Village terminus which closes after tomorrow, it is one of his favourite terminals. busandtrainuser.com/2023/02/02/my-favourite-london-bus-terminus-terminates-tomorrow/===================================== And here is my tribute to the 271 and its predecessors: The terminus at Highgate Village came into use on 10th December 1939, when the no. 11 tram was replaced by the 611 trolleybus. The 271 is the direct successor of both these routes and remains pretty much unchanged until it is withdrawn completely after Friday 3rd February. The 611 trolleybus was a consistently high earner for London Transport's tram and trolleybus department, but was something of a headache to operate. Difficulties in securing a suitable terminus in Highgate Village, and opposition to plans to run along North Road and North Hill to North Finchley, delayed its introduction and the steepness of Highgate Hill meant the route had to be operated with specially-adapted trolleybuses. Tram 11 had terminated in a stub in Highgate High Street; while this was fine for the trams as the driver just changed ends and the tram went back the way it came, trolleybuses needed a turning circle! London Transport posited three plans: a loop via Southwood Lane, Castle Yard and North Road; extending the route along North Road and constructing a turning circle 60 yards north of the junction with Castle Yard; and extending the route to North Finchley via North Road and North Hill (with corresponding reductions on routes 517/617). However all these extensions took the route over the London County Council boundary, and were all objected to by Middlesex County Council, Hornsey Metropolitan Borough Council and Highgate School, the latter citing dangers to school children - all the proposals involved trolleybuses passing the school. Eventually London Transport managed to secure a site at the junction of Highgate High Street and The Grove, close to the tram terminus and just within the London County Council boundary (presumably this involved the expense of compulsory purchase and demolition of property on the corner), and built a terminus large enough to hold two trolleybuses. This terminus is still used by the 611's successor, the 271 bus, today. Having been planned for 4th September 1938, tram 11 was finally replaced on 10th December 1939; it was the last tram route to operate in North London aside from the three routes which used the Kingsway Subway in Holborn. As for North Hill, it would be 1973 before it saw a bus service, when the 143 was diverted via Highgate Village instead of Archway Road. Parts of Highgate Hill are as steep as 1 in 10, so the Ministry of Transport required all trolleybuses using the hill to be fitted with run-back and coasting brakes. London Transport had to order a fleet of trolleybuses specifically for the route, the J3 and L1 classes. They were ordered before the extension to North Finchley was dropped so there were more than needed; however a related proposal to reduce routes 517/617 also had to be dropped, so the surplus buses were used on other routes at Highgate. Occasionally this meant that, when a 611 needed to be substituted at short notice, there was no J3 or L1 vehicle available and another type had to be used. When this happened the northbound journey would be curtailed at Archway Station and the vehicle would pick up its southbound time from there, and lost mileage would be incurred. Even at the end, London Transport seemed unsure about what to do with the route. In 1957 the route was considered for trial running of Routemaster buses, but this was dropped as it would have meant a long period of dual trolleybus and motor bus operation at Highgate Depot. From then on it was continually proposed for early conversion, but London Transport never seemed sure when to schedule it, or why it should be converted early; was it to remove the requirement for "special vehicles", to even out the number of buses required at each stage of the trolleybus-to-motor bus conversion, or because the route was "self-contained" - there was no working onto and off other routes, otherwise a very common feature of trolleybus operation? In the event the route was replaced by bus 271 after Tuesday 19th July 1960. Highgate's other routes were not converted until 31st January 1961, apart from the 627 which survived until 25th April 1961. Initially, HT only had sixteen Routemasters allocated for the 271 which had a PVR on weekdays of 15, and as an extra vehicle was required on Saturdays one Routemaster was borrowed from Shepherd's Bush and operated with running number HT 116. This practice was no longer necessary after January 1961. The 271 had an experimental allocation of crew-operated Atlanteans (the XA class) from 1st December 1966 until 9th July 1966, after which it reverted to Routemaster operation but this time with of the longer RML version. These lasted until 15th January 1971; the following day the routes was converted to driver-only operation with DMS vehicles, one of the first routes in London to be converted to One-Man (sic) Operation using double-deckers. HT was also renamed from Highgate to Holloway Garage at around this time, following the closure of the old Holloway (J) Bus Garage the previous year - the housing development Cornwallis Square now occupies most of the site. The 271 (and its tram and trolleybus predecessors) have always been operated by HT, apart from a couple of spells elsewhere. From 22nd September 1990 until 24th May 1991 it was operated from the now-closed Chalk Farm (CF) Garage, and from 25th September 1993 until 26th April 1996 it was contracted out to London Suburban Bus and operated from a base in Edmonton - it returned to HT when London Suburban Bus was bought out by MTL London. The route's terminals have been pretty consistent too; it has never operated north of Highgate Village, except on Sundays from 6th June 1987 to 2nd February 1991 when it was extended on Sundays to Hendon Central Station, replacing the 143 on that day. The short extension from Finsbury Square to Liverpool Street first appeared only from 16th May 1992, initially at weekends only, and its history has been chequered since. The route was cut back to Finsbury Square at all times from 18th June 2011 when Liverpool Street Bus Station was closed for Crossrail construction work - this was expected to last five years but in the event, it would never return. Recalling the 271 and its Highgate Village Terminus: Metroline's TP51 (V751 HBY) on stand, 26th May 2011. Highgate Village by Julian Walker, on Flickr Excellent summary. I remember the Volvo Olympians(?) in the 90’s, with the plastic moulded seats 😅 they made a nice sound too. I always preferred the 271 when going from Archway to Highbury or Moorgate as it was (in my experience) less busier than the 43 (and usually quicker!). Ironically when I visited the London Bus Museum (Brooklands), this was one of the first vehicles at the entrance: .
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 3, 2023 12:04:31 GMT
Looks like the 271 is curtailed to Archway today as the stand has been blocked off by contractors. Shame it couldn't have waited a day or if the 271 could have shared the 214 stand for the day.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 3, 2023 13:55:24 GMT
Looks like the 271 is curtailed to Archway today as the stand has been blocked off by contractors. Shame it couldn't have waited a day or if the 271 could have shared the 214 stand for the day. Roadworks opposite and temporary traffic lights have necessitated the closure of the stand, it does seem incredibly bad timing. I hope nobody is going there tonight for the last bus.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 3, 2023 14:44:12 GMT
Looks like the 271 is curtailed to Archway today as the stand has been blocked off by contractors. Shame it couldn't have waited a day or if the 271 could have shared the 214 stand for the day. Works probably planned months in advance. Doubt they are too bothered about the last day of a bus service of being honest.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 3, 2023 14:59:41 GMT
Looks like the 271 is curtailed to Archway today as the stand has been blocked off by contractors. Shame it couldn't have waited a day or if the 271 could have shared the 214 stand for the day. Works probably planned months in advance. Doubt they are too bothered about the last day of a bus service of being honest. You would still think a notice would go up regardless as normal passengers would still want to have the situation clarified.
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