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Post by Volvo on Nov 23, 2021 22:01:10 GMT
Mostly awful changes all around especially merging the 1 & 168 together - once again, no thought for passengers at all I agree these changes would be awful, making both the "1" and 21 way too long for modern times. There is already too much traffic on the roads and usually around Highbury corner and Holloway road there can be chaos especially when arsenal play, the drivers of the 21 do not need that at all. I thought routes like the 341 were bad enough with how long it is.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 23, 2021 22:08:40 GMT
Mostly awful changes all around especially merging the 1 & 168 together - once again, no thought for passengers at all I agree these changes would be awful, making both the "1" and 21 way too long for modern times. There is already too much traffic on the roads and usually around Highbury corner and Holloway road there can be chaos especially when arsenal play, the drivers of the 21 do not need that at all. I thought routes like the 341 were bad enough with how long it is. Agreed the 341 is 100+ minutes and yet people still are suggesting it to be extended further into Meridian Water!
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Post by cl54 on Nov 23, 2021 22:19:51 GMT
Not local, and only tend to use the southern end of the 21, so will not pass comment on these changes, save for the somewhat sad news of the demise of the 271 number - famous for being one of the first routes to receive DMSs, along with the 220 and the long gone 95. When the 271 goes, it would be nice for someone to put an early DMS on a run of the 271 to wave it goodbye... Before the DMS ran on the route XAs and XFs ran in trials. Guess the XFs won which led to order for Fleetlines.
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Post by greg on Nov 23, 2021 22:48:02 GMT
I know the whole point was to cut services but Lewisham to Holloway seems ridiculously long when you see it for example one of the other routes heading Central being the 185 only goes as far as Victoria.
This is completely different but perhaps a split of the 21: You could have the 21 between Lewisham and Old Street Station, sharing a stand with the 135 And then the 271 between Highgate Village and Old Kent Road Tesco, being extended from Moorgate to Elephant via the 21, and then OKR via the 168
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 23, 2021 22:49:08 GMT
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 21 gives a direct bus alternative to the Overground from New Cross Gate by passing by Highbury & Islington. I imagine the link to London Bridge and southwards will be popular from the Holloway area, and passengers along Holloway Road would soon cotton on a quicker route to London Bridge in the 21, compared to the 43.
Also shocked but not surprised how many on here don't and/or won't read the four page written document that supports the consultation.
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Post by greenboy on Nov 23, 2021 22:53:50 GMT
I know the whole point was to cut services but Lewisham to Holloway seems ridiculously long when you see it for example one of the other routes heading Central being the 185 only goes as far as Victoria. This is completely different but perhaps a split of the 21: You could have the 21 between Lewisham and Old Street Station, sharing a stand with the 135 And then the 271 between Highgate Village and Old Kent Road Tesco, being extended from Moorgate to Elephant via the 21, and then OKR via the 168 Could have just left the 271 as it was and curtailed the 21 at Moorgate but the link to Moorfields is lost and it would probably be pretty dead north of London Bridge.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 23, 2021 22:54:08 GMT
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 21 gives a direct bus alternative to the Overground from New Cross Gate by passing by Highbury & Islington. I imagine the link to London Bridge and southwards will be popular from the Holloway area, and passengers along Holloway Road would soon cotton on a quicker route to London Bridge in the 21, compared to the 43. Also shocked but not surprised how many on here don't and/or won't read the four page written document that supports the consultation. A great point about there being a bus alternative to Highbury & Islington from NXG. Overall the 21 changes open more opportunities for north and south as the Overground did when it opened in 2010 compared to the route currently going to Newington Green.
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Post by ronnie on Nov 24, 2021 0:28:00 GMT
I fear for the 43 - scope (not that I like or support) for it to be cut back to Moorgate Finsbury square (overlap from nags head to H&I and then again from old street to London Bridge with the new 21)
The 21 will also become the only route to serve both terminals of 2 separate train / dlr / tube routes (bank & lewisham for DLR, new cross and h&i fir overground!)
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Post by uakari on Nov 24, 2021 2:37:42 GMT
The N271 does seem a bit odd and could cause problems if the 271 number is reused at some future date especially if it includes a night service. Wouldn't the number N263 be more appropriate? I raised this in my response. I suggested introducing an N263 from Barnet Hospital to Moorgate and cutting the N20 back to N Finchley. This would cut Barnet and Whetstone off from a night link from the West End at night, so not good imo. The N20 as the Northern Line shadow doesn't warrant changing, apart from starting to serve the stops from Barnet Church to Barnet Hospital (planned for April). I don't see why the N271 can't either just go as far as Highgate Village or else make it more useful and extend it beyond North Finchley to Mill Hill East or New Barnet. Regarding Highbury Barn to H&I, I don't think the 263 is necessarily essential here but I feel Dalston might be a bit far. Not opposed though.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 24, 2021 3:22:54 GMT
I know the whole point was to cut services but Lewisham to Holloway seems ridiculously long when you see it for example one of the other routes heading Central being the 185 only goes as far as Victoria. This is completely different but perhaps a split of the 21: You could have the 21 between Lewisham and Old Street Station, sharing a stand with the 135 And then the 271 between Highgate Village and Old Kent Road Tesco, being extended from Moorgate to Elephant via the 21, and then OKR via the 168 Now that 271 idea is interesting - the only issue you'll run into is that Highgate Village which TfL finally get their way in removing. With the 21, the link to the eye hospital at the very least should be retained, not sure if there is a stand anymore off Baring Street as it was a official turn on the 21
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 24, 2021 6:14:42 GMT
I know the whole point was to cut services but Lewisham to Holloway seems ridiculously long when you see it for example one of the other routes heading Central being the 185 only goes as far as Victoria. This is completely different but perhaps a split of the 21: You could have the 21 between Lewisham and Old Street Station, sharing a stand with the 135 And then the 271 between Highgate Village and Old Kent Road Tesco, being extended from Moorgate to Elephant via the 21, and then OKR via the 168 Now that 271 idea is interesting - the only issue you'll run into is that Highgate Village which TfL finally get their way in removing. With the 21, the link to the eye hospital at the very least should be retained, not sure if there is a stand anymore off Baring Street as it was a official turn on the 21 The Highate village stand is a bit difficult now and I can see why a solution like this is desired to be able to do away with it.
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Post by greenboy on Nov 24, 2021 6:54:45 GMT
Now that 271 idea is interesting - the only issue you'll run into is that Highgate Village which TfL finally get their way in removing. With the 21, the link to the eye hospital at the very least should be retained, not sure if there is a stand anymore off Baring Street as it was a official turn on the 21 The Highate village stand is a bit difficult now and I can see why a solution like this is desired to be able to do away with it. If it weren't for that stand I suspect the 21 would have just been cut back to Moorgate or Old Street. Presumably that's why the N271 will go to East Finchley as that stand will no longer be available.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 24, 2021 7:35:05 GMT
I raised this in my response. I suggested introducing an N263 from Barnet Hospital to Moorgate and cutting the N20 back to N Finchley. This would cut Barnet and Whetstone off from a night link from the West End at night, so not good imo. The N20 as the Northern Line shadow doesn't warrant changing, apart from starting to serve the stops from Barnet Church to Barnet Hospital (planned for April). I don't see why the N271 can't either just go as far as Highgate Village or else make it more useful and extend it beyond North Finchley to Mill Hill East or New Barnet. Regarding Highbury Barn to H&I, I don't think the 263 is necessarily essential here but I feel Dalston might be a bit far. Not opposed though. Isnt too far especially when you could probably run it to Dalston on its current schedule because of how padded it is especially off peak.
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 24, 2021 7:44:51 GMT
The Highate village stand is a bit difficult now and I can see why a solution like this is desired to be able to do away with it. If it weren't for that stand I suspect the 21 would have just been cut back to Moorgate or Old Street. Presumably that's why the N271 will go to East Finchley as that stand will no longer be available. It will go to North Finchley to provide a night bus service to the section of High Road currently unserved at night.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 24, 2021 7:45:57 GMT
The N271 does seem a bit odd and could cause problems if the 271 number is reused at some future date especially if it includes a night service. Wouldn't the number N263 be more appropriate? I raised this in my response. I suggested introducing an N263 from Barnet Hospital to Moorgate and cutting the N20 back to N Finchley. I'm somewhat going to agree but I'll probably put this here (as a local): - Divert the N20 between Basing Way & North Finchley via Squires Lane & Great North Road and between Archway & Highgate Wood via Highgate Village with the N271 not introduced. And I say this because entering the estates especially at night time is probably safer to do so not on the main road (for example the Oak Lane Estates I think punters would feel safer not entering on the A1000 and instead perhaps entering round the back) and then you serve a larger variety of people at night, certainly more than the N20 does anyway. Then you can serve all the housing around the Finchley Lido area, almost all housing up to Chandos Avenue is within walking distance of the N20 and the estates would be within the walking distance of the revised N20. To me I think this is sensible because the N20 hasn't exactly been busy between Finchley Central & North Finchley in recent years and there is the N13.
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