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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Nov 22, 2021 19:31:21 GMT
37 and 337 a candidate perhaps. Likewise the 71 and 371 although that involves mixing SDs and DDs. Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 22, 2021 19:36:26 GMT
Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid. I'd say before moving onto large mergers like ones involving the 71 I think it would be better to look at what routes like the 357 and perhaps do a 215/357 merger.
I do perhaps wonder regarding the 215 whether the route is safe north of Yardley Lane throughout the year? I think it'd be better off as a daytime extension if Sewardstone needed a daytime service and cut it back to Yardley Lane after a certain time.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 22, 2021 19:41:14 GMT
Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid. Worth nothing that even when the 37 ran to Hounslow it ran in sections with an overlap between Clapham Junction and Putney.
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Post by abellion on Nov 22, 2021 19:46:00 GMT
Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. Beat me to it, obviously we have no idea what TfL will do considering that they've proposed a 21 to Holloway now but Peckham to Richmond just seems far too long and full of traffic to work
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Post by YX10FFN on Nov 22, 2021 19:56:18 GMT
Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid. The 337 comes in at around 7 miles, shorter than the average length of 8-9 miles. But I never denied that it suffers a ton of traffic (in fact I’ve complained about it on here before) and I’d agree with you that it’s not worth extending any further than it’s current form due to reliability becoming even worse than it already is.
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 22, 2021 19:59:19 GMT
TfL: we're shortening route X to save money. Also TfL: we're merging route X with route Y to save money. If the 168 contract with Metroline isn't renewed, then it means Go Ahead will run the newly formed route 1 with its garage in south London (MG for now, will be surprised if this isn't reviewed later). That means passengers on the Hampstead end of the route would suffer reliability issues as late buses would be turned from the north to head to south London for drivers' meal reliefs. There's nothing too shocking about this proposal and is a pretty sensible one given the shockers TfL has thrown out in the past. My only real concern is the 188 moving to TCR, St Giles High Street and Bloomsbury Way is definitely more congested than at Russell Square. Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night.
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 22, 2021 20:02:41 GMT
TfL: we're shortening route X to save money. Also TfL: we're merging route X with route Y to save money. If the 168 contract with Metroline isn't renewed, then it means Go Ahead will run the newly formed route 1 with its garage in south London (MG for now, will be surprised if this isn't reviewed later). That means passengers on the Hampstead end of the route would suffer reliability issues as late buses would be turned from the north to head to south London for drivers' meal reliefs. There's nothing too shocking about this proposal and is a pretty sensible one given the shockers TfL has thrown out in the past. My only real concern is the 188 moving to TCR, St Giles High Street and Bloomsbury Way is definitely more congested than at Russell Square. Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night. The same thing would happen to the southern end if the new 1 was run by HT. However the main difference would be passengers in the north would benefit from much better tube and bus connections so I don’t think it would be too major a concern.
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 22, 2021 20:02:53 GMT
TfL: we're shortening route X to save money. Also TfL: we're merging route X with route Y to save money. If the 168 contract with Metroline isn't renewed, then it means Go Ahead will run the newly formed route 1 with its garage in south London (MG for now, will be surprised if this isn't reviewed later). That means passengers on the Hampstead end of the route would suffer reliability issues as late buses would be turned from the north to head to south London for drivers' meal reliefs. There's nothing too shocking about this proposal and is a pretty sensible one given the shockers TfL has thrown out in the past. My only real concern is the 188 moving to TCR, St Giles High Street and Bloomsbury Way is definitely more congested than at Russell Square. Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night. 1/N1 & 21/N21 are both up for tender soon so it won’t guarantee that Go Ahead London will run these routes in the new forms.
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Post by busoccultation on Nov 22, 2021 20:07:26 GMT
Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night. I do think the merged 1/168 should run a 24 hour service to Hampstead Heath to provide the night link from Camden to Holborn and beyond and to keep things more simplified between the day route and night route. As for the current N1 to Thamesmead, maybe the N188 could be rerouted by Vanbrugh Hill to follow current N1 or even have a new N177 or N180 to run between Thamesmead and Central London.
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Post by TB123 on Nov 22, 2021 20:08:28 GMT
Can think of a number of mergers of practicality, 71/85 would certainly be one. Not that I'll disagree with you but that would account for a 100 minute running time if we go off londonbusroutes.net, or are some of the schedules on the 71/85 really padded? If you take out the overlap in Kingston town, probably 85ish at peaks . Even more saving when you remove the layovers. Could probably run with a PVR of 22/23 - 4/5 buses saved, new links opened. N65 could be withdrawn and replaced with a 24hr service, 24 hour service along combined route.
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Post by greenboy on Nov 22, 2021 20:16:13 GMT
With my enthusiast's head on, it will be strange to see two routes I associate with outer South East London (1 to Bromley, 21 to Sidcup, Swanley and beyond!) migrating towards inner North London. It's also interesting to note the growth in importance of the 168 over the years: the traditional 68 only made it as far as Chalk Farm, and the 168 on introduction often used LSs. Yes I would more readily associate the 1 with Catford and Bromley and the 21 with Sidcup. I'd forgotten about the 168 having LSs for a while, I remember it was introduced when the 68 went OPO initially Monday to Saturday with the 68 still going to Chalk Farm on Sunday.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 22, 2021 20:30:55 GMT
With my enthusiast's head on, it will be strange to see two routes I associate with outer South East London (1 to Bromley, 21 to Sidcup, Swanley and beyond!) migrating towards inner North London. It's also interesting to note the growth in importance of the 168 over the years: the traditional 68 only made it as far as Chalk Farm, and the 168 on introduction often used LSs. Yes I would more readily associate the 1 with Catford and Bromley and the 21 with Sidcup. I'd forgotten about the 168 having LSs for a while, I remember it was introduced when the 68 went OPO initially Monday to Saturday with the 68 still going to Chalk Farm on Sunday. Same with the 88 really. Traditionally Tooting and Mitcham.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2021 20:51:02 GMT
Not that I'll disagree with you but that would account for a 100 minute running time if we go off londonbusroutes.net, or are some of the schedules on the 71/85 really padded? If you take out the overlap in Kingston town, probably 85ish at peaks . Even more saving when you remove the layovers. Could probably run with a PVR of 22/23 - 4/5 buses saved, new links opened. N65 could be withdrawn and replaced with a 24hr service, 24 hour service along combined route. I'm really not sure that would be the right move - the 85's traffic conditions are lot different to the 71 for starters
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 22, 2021 20:59:28 GMT
Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night. I do think the merged 1/168 should run a 24 hour service to Hampstead Heath to provide the night link from Camden to Holborn and beyond and to keep things more simplified between the day route and night route. As for the current N1 to Thamesmead, maybe the N188 could be rerouted by Vanbrugh Hill to follow current N1 or even have a new N177 or N180 to run between Thamesmead and Central London. That actually makes sense 1 - Hampstead Heath - Canada Water 24 Hour N188 Tottenham Court Road - Thamesmead via 188 and current N1. I wouldn’t remove the North Greenwich part of it either. From North Greenwich via Millennium Village then current N1 to Thamesmead.
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Post by ronnie on Nov 22, 2021 21:06:12 GMT
Another thing that has been mentioned is that there was unusual emphasis on the N1 being untouched in these plans, but does open up the door for the 188. I expect the 188 to be stripped of its 24 hour service and possibly a N188 up to Euston at least. It's rather ludicrous that from Camden to Holborn can be done via one bus during the day but not at night. I do think the merged 1/168 should run a 24 hour service to Hampstead Heath to provide the night link from Camden to Holborn and beyond and to keep things more simplified between the day route and night route. As for the current N1 to Thamesmead, maybe the N188 could be rerouted by Vanbrugh Hill to follow current N1 or even have a new N177 or N180 to run between Thamesmead and Central London. Would an N1 from Camden Town (if not Hampstead) to thamesmead be too long? Think it adds 2 miles if I am not wrong. Maybe that’s what may happen? I would almost take out the 24 hour status of 188. Instead have an N47 which can start from old street (or TCR) then follow the day 47 to lewisham, then the day 180 to cutty sark and the current day 188 to NOG
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