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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 22, 2021 22:39:25 GMT
94 and 148, I don't see that merger happening, would be unreliable. Even if it was to happen, I can't see it being a Acton Green-Camberwell Green route, mainly for as I said reliability reasons, you'd probably have to involve another route. For the time being however, routes 94 and 148 are fine as they are now, now that 148 is reduced to 6bph. Obviously if/when the Oxford Street pedestrianisation happens, then we'll see. I agree it shouldn't happen but with the 1 merging with the 168, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening sooner rather than later. I guess, another route I've been thinking of is school route 638. I don't see it being withdrawn but maybe cut back or a reduction in school journeys, it will be interesting to see what TFL are planning with this.
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Post by uakari on Nov 22, 2021 22:39:26 GMT
Which is useful. Now this is what I don't like, just because route 460 mirrors both 13 and 260, doesn't mean it's going to be gradually killed off just like that. Route 13 would be a disaster, if it did not have route 460 as assistance especially during peak hours. Exactly - this is what happens when people see one idea and think everything can & must merge or be withdrawn, they try and put 2+2 together and make 700. The 460 of course didn't exist before the turn of the century, with the 260 running between Shepherd's Bush and North Finchley. This is what I find odd about these proposals and the other ones just published: We're always being told that long cross-London routes are not viable any more because traffic has increased, and yet two super-long routes are now planned to replace overlapping ones.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 22:39:36 GMT
The U5 could be withdrawn with modifications in the local area. Though Tfl aren't going to focus on changing the outer London areas as much I feel Probably tfl will think that the 94 and 148 can be merged to eradicate the 148 94 and 148, I don't see that merger happening, would be unreliable. Even if it was to happen, I can't see it being a Acton Green-Camberwell Green route, mainly for as I said reliability reasons, you'd probably have to involve another route. For the time being however, routes 94 and 148 are fine as they are now, now that 148 is reduced to 6bph. Obviously if/when the Oxford Street pedestrianisation happens, then we'll see. Only reason I said it is because Tfl come up with silly ideas like the 110/391 merger
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 22, 2021 22:44:06 GMT
94 and 148, I don't see that merger happening, would be unreliable. Even if it was to happen, I can't see it being a Acton Green-Camberwell Green route, mainly for as I said reliability reasons, you'd probably have to involve another route. For the time being however, routes 94 and 148 are fine as they are now, now that 148 is reduced to 6bph. Obviously if/when the Oxford Street pedestrianisation happens, then we'll see. Only reason I said it is because Tfl come up with silly ideas like the 110/391 merger Although I do agree with you, when you say about TFL coming up with silly ideas. The 110/391 merger, my only concern is the traffic conditions on the A316. I haven't been on the merge route yet but I felt that there could be reliability issues mainly as it passes the A316.
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Post by london23 on Nov 22, 2021 22:47:31 GMT
If the Metroline lose the 168 after the merger Do you think it would be a good idea to swap the 1 and 188 garage allocations so the 1 would came out of Camberwell and the 188 to Morden wharf.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 22:54:30 GMT
Can't really see either of these, the 337 and 71 are on the short side but combining them with another entire route is a different story. If the 71 were to be extended anywhere I would extend it to Ham, Dukes Avenue via the 65. 337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid. The 337 is in my opinion easily able to be withdrawn. Personally I would actually withdraw the H37 number and have the 337 as a DXE sized route Hounslow to Wandsworth. But as for this actual topic, I’m not surprised but would echo concerns about lengthy cross river route reliability. They are the first to go wrong with incidents in Central London and do not suit any particular operator.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2021 23:36:21 GMT
337! Short! There is a hell of a lot of traffic in the Wandsworth and Sheen areas, often resulting in Queens Road turns. I'm not fussed about the 1/168 and 21/271 mergers, they're not too bad and don't affect me, but I'm sorry to say, if the 37 and 337 were merged, I'd be livid. The 337 is in my opinion easily able to be withdrawn. Personally I would actually withdraw the H37 number and have the 337 as a DXE sized route Hounslow to Wandsworth. But as for this actual topic, I’m not surprised but would echo concerns about lengthy cross river route reliability. They are the first to go wrong with incidents in Central London and do not suit any particular operator. Not only are the frequencies of the 337 & H37 very different but I don't think the 337 running with single deckers is wise at all. The 337's current frequency is reasonable and would be overkill if it matched the higher frequency of the H37
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2021 23:40:36 GMT
Exactly - this is what happens when people see one idea and think everything can & must merge or be withdrawn, they try and put 2+2 together and make 700. The 460 of course didn't exist before the turn of the century, with the 260 running between Shepherd's Bush and North Finchley. This is what I find odd about these proposals and the other ones just published: We're always being told that long cross-London routes are not viable any more because traffic has increased, and yet two super-long routes are now planned to replace overlapping ones. It's literally just for money saving - they have given up on bothering to think about passengers. Car ownership is sadly increasing even in low car ownership boroughs like mine where in the last year, it actually increased which isn't normal for Lambeth at all. The way things are going, buses will go back to being the option of last resort, mainly used by low income people, children & elderly just like it was years ago - you would think they'd break the cycle of decline, success, then back to decline by now!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 23:42:46 GMT
The 337 is in my opinion easily able to be withdrawn. Personally I would actually withdraw the H37 number and have the 337 as a DXE sized route Hounslow to Wandsworth. But as for this actual topic, I’m not surprised but would echo concerns about lengthy cross river route reliability. They are the first to go wrong with incidents in Central London and do not suit any particular operator. Not only are the frequencies of the 337 & H37 very different but I don't think the 337 running with single deckers is wise at all. The 337's current frequency is reasonable and would be overkill if it matched the higher frequency of the H37 You could in turn reduce the 33 frequency to even out the imbalance. Also reroute the N33 via Putney Station. I don’t think the 33 will be crossing Hammersmith Bridge anytime soon. I suspect a wider review of the Hammersmith Bridge routes won’t be far away.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 22, 2021 23:51:25 GMT
I think these proposals have fewer issues than the other consultation, but the main concern is possible reliability issues with a route going between Hampstead Heath and Canada Water. Swapping the 1 and 27 termini could be a simple solution, or alternatively, perhaps these ideas below. I think it would make more sense to merge the 1 with the 188 rather than the 168 - this could provide a more direct route between Greenwich and Central London, rather than via Jamaica Road, and possibly more reliable than the current 188.
1 - Extended from Surrey Quays to North Greenwich via the 188. Route N1 unchanged.
188 - Withdrawn, replaced by changes to other routes.
168 - Left unchanged between Hampstead Heath and Old Kent Road.
415 - Cut back from Old Kent Road to Bricklayers Arms, and instead extended to Canada Water (or Surrey Quays) via the 188.
129 - 24-hour service introduced, replacing the 188's night link between Cutty Sark and North Greenwich.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 22, 2021 23:53:52 GMT
Looks like there might be more route mergings to save money soon, first the 88/C2/110/391 and now this Ah, "simplifying the service", for which read "saving money".
If TfL are actively looking for routes serving over-bussed corridors which can safely be withdrawn by tweaking one or more other services...
C2 - gone 10 - gone 305 - gone
391 - gone 48 - gone
...and now 168 - going 271 - going
...it makes me wonder which other 'unnecessary' routes could be extinguished in the near future.
357 It was earmaked for withdrawal and got a reprise by lobbying from a certain IDS about lack of access to Whipps from Chingford.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 22, 2021 23:55:18 GMT
Ah, "simplifying the service", for which read "saving money".
If TfL are actively looking for routes serving over-bussed corridors which can safely be withdrawn by tweaking one or more other services...
C2 - gone 10 - gone 305 - gone
391 - gone 48 - gone
...and now 168 - going 271 - going
...it makes me wonder which other 'unnecessary' routes could be extinguished in the near future.
Can see the 15 being in danger now! would be really disappointed if this route was cut! Could be merged with the 115 and that route renumbered 15.... I would be glad to see the back of it. The 15 now is an insult to the route it once was. I really do not know why it has not been merged with the 115.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 23, 2021 0:47:48 GMT
Not only are the frequencies of the 337 & H37 very different but I don't think the 337 running with single deckers is wise at all. The 337's current frequency is reasonable and would be overkill if it matched the higher frequency of the H37 You could in turn reduce the 33 frequency to even out the imbalance. Also reroute the N33 via Putney Station. I don’t think the 33 will be crossing Hammersmith Bridge anytime soon. I suspect a wider review of the Hammersmith Bridge routes won’t be far away. I suspect a review of everything through Barnes will be undertaken given there is an actual imbalance there but it shouldn't include the 337
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Nov 23, 2021 0:56:46 GMT
Ah, "simplifying the service", for which read "saving money".
If TfL are actively looking for routes serving over-bussed corridors which can safely be withdrawn by tweaking one or more other services...
C2 - gone 10 - gone 305 - gone
391 - gone 48 - gone
...and now 168 - going 271 - going
...it makes me wonder which other 'unnecessary' routes could be extinguished in the near future.
Another route that can be withdrawn with out replace meant is the 460 as it mirror 13 and 260 The 460 serves a different purpose its a good NW-N route which there is not a lot of, and how would you replace it? As the 260 and 13 overlap isnt very big. If anything the 460 has potential for more.
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Post by COBO on Nov 23, 2021 4:26:34 GMT
Bloody hell. Whatever will happen next.
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