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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 20:05:28 GMT
Could another drawback be the loss of bus service serving the heart of Croydon Town Centre, now that the 2019 changes meant buses terminating on the outskirts of town? I suspect there has been an effect - if your bus originally got you closer and now puts you further away, even only by a bit and you have access to a car, your likely going to use your car instead. The decline of Croydon Town Centre is not just one issue as Captain Cuts might have you believe - there are a number of different factors as to why people don't go there no more from certain changes involving transport to the gang culture thats rife in the town centre to similar shops opening up elsewhere that's both nearer and more accessible to people. As to your earlier point around the DfT to run TfL being for the better, I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree with you - they will only cut the network even more than whats happening now. I wouldn't trust anyone in the government to run anything and I say that as someone who is no fan of Khan either. Yes I'd agree with you on the Croydon issue, I believe it was you who said that also bus journeys are a bit of a slog going to Croydon on something like the 109.
I did suspect being further from the place of interest is probably the reason some would go by car or switch to the tram nowadays, as I've mentioned previously it is really important to have buses terminating and serving useful places. It is such as a shame as to how much of a mess Croydon is with bus services in terms of where they start and stand, a completely different world away to places like Stratford, Brent Cross, Orpington, Brixton, Walworth, East Ham, Bromley etc where all buses are centred in one area and where people can interchange between services easily. I'll be honest here I've not interchanged between buses in Croydon a lot but it must be a bit of a task changing regularly if not in West Croydon as lots of the bus services are spread out across the town centre and terminating here there and everywhere.
In terms of your comments regarding the government, I guess it is a two sided coin.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 1, 2022 20:14:06 GMT
Do you reckon this year there'll be another thing about Croydon Westfield potentially being built?
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Post by TB123 on Jan 1, 2022 20:25:49 GMT
Do you reckon this year there'll be another thing about Croydon Westfield potentially being built? No. As someone with relatively close involvement around affairs to do with that, absolutely not. That's 100 % dead in the water. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 2, 2022 23:27:22 GMT
1 or 2 more batches of Hydrogen buses being ordered.
Caetano will unveil their London spec double decker, one order from Abellio
Irizar trams for 358 delayed by up to a year
London bus cuts continuing, including currently known reviews such as Putney, and new ones such as Croydon, Kingston etc.
Overall PVR will decrease
Fares increased, such as bus to £1.65
63 Customer Service Action Plan (or whatever it's called now) declared a success, and rolled out to more routes, but only on contracts announced towards end of year
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 2, 2022 23:34:12 GMT
1 or 2 more batches of Hydrogen buses being ordered. Caetano will unveil their London spec double decker, one order from Abellio Irizar trams for 358 delayed by up to a year London bus cuts continuing, including currently known reviews such as Putney, and new ones such as Croydon, Kingston etc. Overall PVR will decrease Fares increased, such as bus to £1.65 63 Customer Service Action Plan (or whatever it's called now) declared a success, and rolled out to more routes, but only on contracts announced towards end of year To be honest I was going to think the 63s plan to be the complete opposite and to be declared a failure. Can't see people suddenly flocking en mass to the 63 just because suddenly there's a nice bus on it. It could be the perfect excuse for TfL to save money and actually say that doing all of this doesn't work and use it for future justification. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 3, 2022 0:10:11 GMT
1 or 2 more batches of Hydrogen buses being ordered. Caetano will unveil their London spec double decker, one order from Abellio Irizar trams for 358 delayed by up to a year London bus cuts continuing, including currently known reviews such as Putney, and new ones such as Croydon, Kingston etc. Overall PVR will decrease Fares increased, such as bus to £1.65 63 Customer Service Action Plan (or whatever it's called now) declared a success, and rolled out to more routes, but only on contracts announced towards end of year To be honest I was going to think the 63s plan to be the complete opposite and to be declared a failure. Can't see people suddenly flocking en mass to the 63 just because suddenly there's a nice bus on it. It could be the perfect excuse for TfL to save money and actually say that doing all of this doesn't work and use it for future justification. I don't think that it will attract many people, but ridership will increase slightly above average, and implementing it on further routes will move TfL towards current times |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 3, 2022 0:33:17 GMT
To be honest I was going to think the 63s plan to be the complete opposite and to be declared a failure. Can't see people suddenly flocking en mass to the 63 just because suddenly there's a nice bus on it. It could be the perfect excuse for TfL to save money and actually say that doing all of this doesn't work and use it for future justification. I don't think that it will attract many people, but ridership will increase slightly above average, and implementing it on further routes will move TfL towards current times I think any passenger number increases on the 63 will be negligible and the public won’t be fooled by the future bus project when they realise it isn’t actually improving the fundamental problems that exist on the bus network. It’s like slapping lipstick on a pig, you can tart it up but at the end of the day a pig is still a pig. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 3, 2022 0:34:53 GMT
I don't think that it will attract many people, but ridership will increase slightly above average, and implementing it on further routes will move TfL towards current times I think any passenger number increases on the 63 will be negligible and the public won’t be fooled by the future bus project when they realise it isn’t actually improving the fundamental problems that exist on the bus network. It’s like slapping lipstick on a pig, you can tart it up but at the end of the day a pig is still a pig. If the new buses are combined with a more frequent, reliable and prioritised service (which I believe is also part of the plan unless I am mistaken), then I could see numbers increasing |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 0:37:56 GMT
I don't think that it will attract many people, but ridership will increase slightly above average, and implementing it on further routes will move TfL towards current times I think any passenger number increases on the 63 will be negligible and the public won’t be fooled by the future bus project when they realise it isn’t actually improving the fundamental problems that exist on the bus network. It’s like slapping lipstick on a pig, you can tart it up but at the end of the day a pig is still a pig. One thing that would I suppose help is TFL actually listening to the public when they come out with consultations rather than just do the absolute opposite. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 3, 2022 1:36:07 GMT
I think any passenger number increases on the 63 will be negligible and the public won’t be fooled by the future bus project when they realise it isn’t actually improving the fundamental problems that exist on the bus network. It’s like slapping lipstick on a pig, you can tart it up but at the end of the day a pig is still a pig. If the new buses are combined with a more frequent, reliable and prioritised service (which I believe is also part of the plan unless I am mistaken), then I could see numbers increasing Not sure how they can make the 63 any more reliable unless some actual proper bus priority is going to be put in - certainly, there should be infrastructure changes to bus stops so it'll be interesting to see exactly what they are. Also to note that a number of Croydon bus stops will be replaced with smart shelters sometime this year as well. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 3, 2022 8:20:26 GMT
1 or 2 more batches of Hydrogen buses being ordered. Caetano will unveil their London spec double decker, one order from Abellio Irizar trams for 358 delayed by up to a year London bus cuts continuing, including currently known reviews such as Putney, and new ones such as Croydon, Kingston etc. Overall PVR will decrease Fares increased, such as bus to £1.65 63 Customer Service Action Plan (or whatever it's called now) declared a success, and rolled out to more routes, but only on contracts announced towards end of year To be honest I was going to think the 63s plan to be the complete opposite and to be declared a failure. Can't see people suddenly flocking en mass to the 63 just because suddenly there's a nice bus on it. It could be the perfect excuse for TfL to save money and actually say that doing all of this doesn't work and use it for future justification. I don't think anyone seriously expects usage of the 63 to increase significantly just because it's got nicer buses, if a 363 comes first most people will still get that. Surely it should be the start of a long term project to make bus travel more attractive, these sort of standards have been the norm elsewhere for years. Would anybody build a new all electric car with 1960's style seats? On the other hand if you want many people to still see bus travel as a last resort then leave things as they are. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 3, 2022 8:27:28 GMT
I think any passenger number increases on the 63 will be negligible and the public won’t be fooled by the future bus project when they realise it isn’t actually improving the fundamental problems that exist on the bus network. It’s like slapping lipstick on a pig, you can tart it up but at the end of the day a pig is still a pig. One thing that would I suppose help is TFL actually listening to the public when they come out with consultations rather than just do the absolute opposite. I don't see anything changing there and I think these consultations are generally an unnecessary level of bureaucracy. The Croydon/Sutton one attracted less than 1,000 responses which suggests that most people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. It's a bit like a local by-election with a 1% turn out. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 3, 2022 8:55:12 GMT
If the new buses are combined with a more frequent, reliable and prioritised service (which I believe is also part of the plan unless I am mistaken), then I could see numbers increasing Not sure how they can make the 63 any more reliable unless some actual proper bus priority is going to be put in - certainly, there should be infrastructure changes to bus stops so it'll be interesting to see exactly what they are. Also to note that a number of Croydon bus stops will be replaced with smart shelters sometime this year as well. Unless they are planning to install bus lanes along the entire route which isn’t possible due to layout changes on Elephant and Castle to Kings Cross stretch I also don’t see how they can change much. It just feels like a classic distraction technique, I can almost hear the “let’s distract the plebs so they can’t see how much we’ve f**ked the bus network” conversation in TfL towers. They had smart shelters installed on Eden Street in Kingston and they no longer work properly due to vandalism and council neglect, good luck to the ones in Croydon. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 9:41:15 GMT
One thing that would I suppose help is TFL actually listening to the public when they come out with consultations rather than just do the absolute opposite. I don't see anything changing there and I think these consultations are generally an unnecessary level of bureaucracy. The Croydon/Sutton one attracted less than 1,000 responses which suggests that most people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. It's a bit like a local by-election with a 1% turn out. For the amount of effort that went in 1000 responses is pretty measly. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 9:43:05 GMT
To be honest I was going to think the 63s plan to be the complete opposite and to be declared a failure. Can't see people suddenly flocking en mass to the 63 just because suddenly there's a nice bus on it. It could be the perfect excuse for TfL to save money and actually say that doing all of this doesn't work and use it for future justification. I don't think anyone seriously expects usage of the 63 to increase significantly just because it's got nicer buses, if a 363 comes first most people will still get that. Surely it should be the start of a long term project to make bus travel more attractive, these sort of standards have been the norm elsewhere for years. Would anybody build a new all electric car with 1960's style seats? On the other hand if you want many people to still see bus travel as a last resort then leave things as they are. Yes I would agree with all of that but other things do need to be done such as increasing capacity, possible extensions to services, reducing running time and tightening it up, ensuring buses are reliable. |
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