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Post by VMH2537 on Feb 10, 2022 10:34:49 GMT
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Post by galwhv69 on Feb 10, 2022 10:40:57 GMT
How do they know that passenger numbers are low if they haven't run it in over a year? Data from when Covid started and before it is not indicative of current passenger numbers on the network now
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Post by uakari on Feb 10, 2022 10:48:58 GMT
Not looking good for the 24 hour weekend routes. Surprised they even thought a consultation was necessary and didn't try to get away with it as a 'permanent frequency reduction in the late evenings and early mornings'(!).
That would leave Dagenham as a large area without a night bus again.
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Post by evergreenadam on Feb 10, 2022 10:50:08 GMT
Pre-COVID this was meant to be one of the better used weekend night routes. If so, agree not looking good for the others.
I note that they say it hasn’t performed as well as expected in terms of patronage but they don’t say how many people actually used it. Maybe their expectations were just overly ambitious in the first place?
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Post by WH241 on Feb 10, 2022 10:50:17 GMT
How do they know that passenger numbers are low if they haven't run it in over a year? Data from when Covid started and before it is not indicative of current passenger numbers on the network now TfL is so strapped of cash it would be a waste of money to start up the service again to then realise numbers are low and the service can’t be justified. I expect similar consultations for the other weekend routes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 11:05:40 GMT
We'll probably see the same thing for routes like 34, 123, 307 and other weekend night routes
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Post by uakari on Feb 10, 2022 11:10:18 GMT
We'll probably see the same thing for routes like 34, 123, 307 and other weekend night routes For the 307, it might be better to extend the proposed N271 to New Barnet station eg via the 125 and 184 to cover East Barnet as well. Obviously that doesn't solve the eastern section. I always thought Dagenham was quite an active area at night so to single out the 145 is surprising. If they are planning to withdraw all of them, wouldn't they have a joint consultation or maybe they think that makes them look bad?
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Post by greenboy on Feb 10, 2022 11:11:01 GMT
Why waste money on a consultation? Just make a decision to bring it back or axe it permanently, or maybe a compromise would be an hourly service on a trial basis?
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Post by uakari on Feb 10, 2022 11:14:06 GMT
Why waste money on a consultation? Just make a decision to bring it back or axe it permanently, or maybe a compromise would be an hourly service on a trial basis? I think a consultation is a statutory requirement for route alterations, although as I say I did think they might try to get away with pitching it as a frequency reduction.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 10, 2022 11:19:44 GMT
Maybe we will see a trend developing as these routes go out to tender
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 10, 2022 13:10:09 GMT
Tbh I would have thought a night link from Dagenham to Romford would have been more popular for clubbers on Friday/Saturday nights as opposed to Ilford/Leytonstone.
Leytonstone to Redbridge is obviously covered by the night tube itself but also the N8. Ilford is linked to the night tube for the Central and Jubilee at Straford much more frequently by the N25/N86 and the EL1 links Ilford to Longbridge Road area so really I can kind of see why demand didn't materialise as much as maybe was thought.
That said it carried 31,000 passengers 2019/20 almost double the 154 (17000) and still beating the 183 (25000) and alot more then thr E1 (9000) and even lower the H37 (7600) so probably not going to bode well for any of the 24h weekend services.
I did think the 154 would carry more linking Croydon and Sutton at nights as well as feeing into the Night tube. Obviously the N213 was underused hence it being axed in 2009.
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 10, 2022 13:34:38 GMT
Pre-COVID this was meant to be one of the better used weekend night routes. If so, agree not looking good for the others. I note that they say it hasn’t performed as well as expected in terms of patronage but they don’t say how many people actually used it. Maybe their expectations were just overly ambitious in the first place? When TfL are shy of dolling out figures, then there isn't a full conviction by themselves over this withdrawal. The strongest case for the 145N is that large swathes of Dagenham is without a night service, and its circuitous routing around Heathway gives a night bus cover to a lot of the general area. Where the 145N is at its weakest is that it doesn't traverse the length of Heathway and the industrial units along New Road which would generate custom at night isn't properly served by the night bus. It's very worrying that TfL start with one of the most subscribed weekend night routes to consult on withdrawing. One would think the 307 for example would be on the chopping block with its low passenger usage and the N20 being extended to Barnet Hospital. I wonder how many of the 17 weekend night bus routes will make a reappearance this year; wouldn't be surprised if we were left with around five routes.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 10, 2022 14:14:43 GMT
Pre-COVID this was meant to be one of the better used weekend night routes. If so, agree not looking good for the others. I note that they say it hasn’t performed as well as expected in terms of patronage but they don’t say how many people actually used it. Maybe their expectations were just overly ambitious in the first place? When TfL are shy of dolling out figures, then there isn't a full conviction by themselves over this withdrawal. The strongest case for the 145N is that large swathes of Dagenham is without a night service, and its circuitous routing around Heathway gives a night bus cover to a lot of the general area. Where the 145N is at its weakest is that it doesn't traverse the length of Heathway and the industrial units along New Road which would generate custom at night isn't properly served by the night bus. It's very worrying that TfL start with one of the most subscribed weekend night routes to consult on withdrawing. One would think the 307 for example would be on the chopping block with its low passenger usage and the N20 being extended to Barnet Hospital. I wonder how many of the 17 weekend night bus routes will make a reappearance this year; wouldn't be surprised if we were left with around five routes. If the N145 was the busiest with a average of 220 trips I dread to think what the other weekend routes are like!
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Post by greenboy on Feb 10, 2022 14:22:42 GMT
Tbh I would have thought a night link from Dagenham to Romford would have been more popular for clubbers on Friday/Saturday nights as opposed to Ilford/Leytonstone. Leytonstone to Redbridge is obviously covered by the night tube itself but also the N8. Ilford is linked to the night tube for the Central and Jubilee at Straford much more frequently by the N25/N86 and the EL1 links Ilford to Longbridge Road area so really I can kind of see why demand didn't materialise as much as maybe was thought. That said it carried 31,000 passengers 2019/20 almost double the 154 (17000) and still beating the 183 (25000) and alot more then thr E1 (9000) and even lower the H37 (7600) so probably not going to bode well for any of the 24h weekend services. I did think the 154 would carry more linking Croydon and Sutton at nights as well as feeing into the Night tube. Obviously the N213 was underused hence it being axed in 2009. I don't think the N213 was under used, it was a cock up by TfL and their obsession about standardising everything. The 213 became a 24 hour route and the 154 was also supposed to become a 24 hour route but for whatever the 154 change didn't happen.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 10, 2022 15:00:32 GMT
Tbh I would have thought a night link from Dagenham to Romford would have been more popular for clubbers on Friday/Saturday nights as opposed to Ilford/Leytonstone. Leytonstone to Redbridge is obviously covered by the night tube itself but also the N8. Ilford is linked to the night tube for the Central and Jubilee at Straford much more frequently by the N25/N86 and the EL1 links Ilford to Longbridge Road area so really I can kind of see why demand didn't materialise as much as maybe was thought. That said it carried 31,000 passengers 2019/20 almost double the 154 (17000) and still beating the 183 (25000) and alot more then thr E1 (9000) and even lower the H37 (7600) so probably not going to bode well for any of the 24h weekend services. I did think the 154 would carry more linking Croydon and Sutton at nights as well as feeing into the Night tube. Obviously the N213 was underused hence it being axed in 2009. I don't think the N213 was under used, it was a cock up by TfL and their obsession about standardising everything. The 213 became a 24 hour route and the 154 was also supposed to become a 24 hour route but for whatever the 154 change didn't happen. Probably costing but I agree. If the day 213 had run from Kingston to Croydon then the night service would obviously have continued to Croydon. It was purely what I knew what would happen when the 24h routes came and that was to make them the same as day routes despite catering for different demands. I think most as night would rather travel further on 1 bus then change.
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