|
Post by Dillon95 on Feb 28, 2022 12:51:17 GMT
I'd say that LEDs should look like this, with changing vias next to the route no. and the dest. below so:
Hanworth, Heston 111 Heathrow Central
That looks awful, the via points are too big and the final destination is too small. It would lead to confusion with passengers over their final destination if they were planning on going to the end of the route. The last thing a driver wants is to answer the same question of “where are you going?” dozens of times because the blinds are too clumped and hard to read. Personally I would just retain via points on the side blinds and keep the front as simple as possible. We are also ignoring the fact that the majority of passengers in the suburbs know their local routes and don’t need via points. Perhaps in central London where it would benefit tourists and other short term visitors but beyond zone 2 it would be pointless. It wouldn’t be pointless at all. Not everyone knows the bus routes, and it would help gain new passengers that might ditch their car for a useful bus route.
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Feb 28, 2022 13:14:40 GMT
That looks awful, the via points are too big and the final destination is too small. It would lead to confusion with passengers over their final destination if they were planning on going to the end of the route. The last thing a driver wants is to answer the same question of “where are you going?” dozens of times because the blinds are too clumped and hard to read. Personally I would just retain via points on the side blinds and keep the front as simple as possible. We are also ignoring the fact that the majority of passengers in the suburbs know their local routes and don’t need via points. Perhaps in central London where it would benefit tourists and other short term visitors but beyond zone 2 it would be pointless. It wouldn’t be pointless at all. Not everyone knows the bus routes, and it would help gain new passengers that might ditch their car for a useful bus route. You can’t honestly think that layout would be appealing. It just looks so confusing and cluttered, and would deter me from using the bus. The majority of bus users, even casual ones, know how to get from A to B. For those that don’t there is bus stop information, which could and should be a lot better, but there is also smart phones which an estimated 80%, 2021 figures, of UK mobile phone users have. There is a place for clear bus branding and for better bus stop information but having simple blinds is so much better.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Feb 28, 2022 13:33:32 GMT
Personally I always preferred having full 'via' blinds and a little bit of interest went for me when they disappeared. However, I do wonder how useful they actually were. When thinking about blinds, we need to be conscious of what's required by the Public Service Vehicles Accessibility Regulations (PSVAR). There is guidance, which the DfT seems to have done its best to hide somewhere on its website, about letter/number heights etc and I believe scrolling text is discouraged.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on Feb 28, 2022 13:58:58 GMT
It wouldn’t be pointless at all. Not everyone knows the bus routes, and it would help gain new passengers that might ditch their car for a useful bus route. You can’t honestly think that layout would be appealing. It just looks so confusing and cluttered, and would deter me from using the bus. The majority of bus users, even casual ones, know how to get from A to B. For those that don’t there is bus stop information, which could and should be a lot better, but there is also smart phones which an estimated 80%, 2021 figures, of UK mobile phone users have. There is a place for clear bus branding and for better bus stop information but having simple blinds is so much better. Yep I do think it would be appealing. Blinds have been dumbed down too much.
|
|
|
Post by thekbq14 on Feb 28, 2022 16:05:34 GMT
You can’t honestly think that layout would be appealing. It just looks so confusing and cluttered, and would deter me from using the bus. The majority of bus users, even casual ones, know how to get from A to B. For those that don’t there is bus stop information, which could and should be a lot better, but there is also smart phones which an estimated 80%, 2021 figures, of UK mobile phone users have. There is a place for clear bus branding and for better bus stop information but having simple blinds is so much better. Yep I do think it would be appealing. Blinds have been dumbed down too much. I agree, via points are defenitly needed as not everyone is getting the route end to end. Also there's so many routes that follow each other for example 111/285 - Kingston to Heathrow, 227/358 - Bromley to Crystal Palace, 109/250 - Croydon to Brixton for example. If passengers saw these routes on paper, they'll think it take the same routing despite the fact that said routes go through different routes to get to the same destination.
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Feb 28, 2022 16:23:17 GMT
Yep I do think it would be appealing. Blinds have been dumbed down too much. I agree, via points are defenitly needed as not everyone is getting the route end to end. Also there's so many routes that follow each other for example 111/285 - Kingston to Heathrow, 227/358 - Bromley to Crystal Palace, 109/250 - Croydon to Brixton for example. If passengers saw these routes on paper, they'll think it take the same routing despite the fact that said routes go through different routes to get to the same destination. Your two statements are slightly contradictory, you say that not everyone is going need to end but you’ve given specific examples of routes that share destinations. Even then the routes only follow each in part and again you are ignoring the fact that the large majority of passengers are local to their routes and would know the routes they take daily. But if the passenger was smart enough to look the routes up then they’d be smart enough to see the difference in the routes. If it journey planned TfL from Croydon to Brixton by bus it would likely give me the 109 as the fastest bus method. If I looked up Kingston to Heathrow again it would likely give me the 285, ignoring the x26. Th I think improving bus shelter maps and bus stop designs would prove far more effective than cluttering up bus blinds. I don’t think we will agree on this but having clean, uncluttered blinds is best. Put the responsibility on actual shelter maps, smart phone apps and possible bus branding.
|
|
|
Post by thekbq14 on Feb 28, 2022 16:41:42 GMT
I agree, via points are defenitly needed as not everyone is getting the route end to end. Also there's so many routes that follow each other for example 111/285 - Kingston to Heathrow, 227/358 - Bromley to Crystal Palace, 109/250 - Croydon to Brixton for example. If passengers saw these routes on paper, they'll think it take the same routing despite the fact that said routes go through different routes to get to the same destination. Your two statements are slightly contradictory, you say that not everyone is going need to end but you’ve given specific examples of routes that share destinations. Even then the routes only follow each in part and again you are ignoring the fact that the large majority of passengers are local to their routes and would know the routes they take daily. But if the passenger was smart enough to look the routes up then they’d be smart enough to see the difference in the routes. If it journey planned TfL from Croydon to Brixton by bus it would likely give me the 109 as the fastest bus method. If I looked up Kingston to Heathrow again it would likely give me the 285, ignoring the x26. Th I think improving bus shelter maps and bus stop designs would prove far more effective than cluttering up bus blinds. I don’t think we will agree on this but having clean, uncluttered blinds is best. Put the responsibility on actual shelter maps, smart phone apps and possible bus branding. I understand passengers who are local know their routes and where they go to. I am on about people who are new to the area or don't use buses. But even then not everyone who is local to a route may know where it goes especially if they don't use it. I agree with the phone app aspect which is something I use to plan journeys and to check journey times etc but not everyone is tech savvy or have the luxury of a smart phone. My point was two routes may share the same destinations but go through different places and with the current tfl bus blinds, these don't show via points, and unlike trains doesn't call the stops before passengers board on. I do agree on maps being important however we've seen the withdrawal of the old school quadrant area maps and the redesign of spider maps which I'm not a big fan off. Also the fact that some areas have had their spider maps now deleted and maps not being updated to reflect route changes doesn't help at all, tfl need to have better more interactive apps imo (I'm not the biggest fan off theirs). Finally I think uncluttered blinds do look nicer however I do think there can be a mix between uncluttered blinds and via points.
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Feb 28, 2022 17:04:16 GMT
Your two statements are slightly contradictory, you say that not everyone is going need to end but you’ve given specific examples of routes that share destinations. Even then the routes only follow each in part and again you are ignoring the fact that the large majority of passengers are local to their routes and would know the routes they take daily. But if the passenger was smart enough to look the routes up then they’d be smart enough to see the difference in the routes. If it journey planned TfL from Croydon to Brixton by bus it would likely give me the 109 as the fastest bus method. If I looked up Kingston to Heathrow again it would likely give me the 285, ignoring the x26. Th I think improving bus shelter maps and bus stop designs would prove far more effective than cluttering up bus blinds. I don’t think we will agree on this but having clean, uncluttered blinds is best. Put the responsibility on actual shelter maps, smart phone apps and possible bus branding. I understand passengers who are local know their routes and where they go to. I am on about people who are new to the area or don't use buses. But even then not everyone who is local to a route may know where it goes especially if they don't use it. I agree with the phone app aspect which is something I use to plan journeys and to check journey times etc but not everyone is tech savvy or have the luxury of a smart phone. My point was two routes may share the same destinations but go through different places and with the current tfl bus blinds, these don't show via points, and unlike trains doesn't call the stops before passengers board on. I do agree on maps being important however we've seen the withdrawal of the old school quadrant area maps and the redesign of spider maps which I'm not a big fan off. Also the fact that some areas have had their spider maps now deleted and maps not being updated to reflect route changes doesn't help at all, tfl need to have better more interactive apps imo (I'm not the biggest fan off theirs). Finally I think uncluttered blinds do look nicer however I do think there can be a mix between uncluttered blinds and via points. I struggle to believe that people would move to an area and not do even a little bit of research on transport, even those who aren’t regular users would have a basic idea of which route to get them to the station or the supermarket etc or hospital. Varying reports put smartphone usage at between 78-87% for 2020 with predictions of near 90% by 2024. I would rather have better tech at bus stops showing the via points on the countdown screen and the bus side blind showing the via points than clutter up front blinds.
|
|
|
Post by ServerKing on Feb 28, 2022 17:15:19 GMT
We just need blinds that work! You must use the 318s like me you get used to relying on iBus to find out where the buses are going, blinds are overrated We occasionally get to see where the buses go if EN38 or one of the Wood Green ENNs with smart blinds are out and about. Thing is, there's no money left for any upgrades, let alone retrofitting blinds in ageing buses (especially with more working from home and bus usage yet to recover) The LED are great, though RATP have had a few glitches on the screens of their BCEs of late. They are more versatile, allowing easy transfer of buses between garages without messing around with inserts and blind sets etc...
|
|
|
Post by dashing0ne on Feb 28, 2022 17:38:32 GMT
The poll will be locked when I get 75 votes. Get voting and explain your reasoning!!!
|
|
|
Post by thekbq14 on Feb 28, 2022 17:38:42 GMT
I understand passengers who are local know their routes and where they go to. I am on about people who are new to the area or don't use buses. But even then not everyone who is local to a route may know where it goes especially if they don't use it. I agree with the phone app aspect which is something I use to plan journeys and to check journey times etc but not everyone is tech savvy or have the luxury of a smart phone. My point was two routes may share the same destinations but go through different places and with the current tfl bus blinds, these don't show via points, and unlike trains doesn't call the stops before passengers board on. I do agree on maps being important however we've seen the withdrawal of the old school quadrant area maps and the redesign of spider maps which I'm not a big fan off. Also the fact that some areas have had their spider maps now deleted and maps not being updated to reflect route changes doesn't help at all, tfl need to have better more interactive apps imo (I'm not the biggest fan off theirs). Finally I think uncluttered blinds do look nicer however I do think there can be a mix between uncluttered blinds and via points. I struggle to believe that people would move to an area and not do even a little bit of research on transport, even those who aren’t regular users would have a basic idea of which route to get them to the station or the supermarket etc or hospital. Varying reports put smartphone usage at between 78-87% for 2020 with predictions of near 90% by 2024. I would rather have better tech at bus stops showing the via points on the countdown screen and the bus side blind showing the via points than clutter up front blinds. To your first point, I think you'd be surprised, don't get me wrong I doubt people are moving to an area without research on transport, that's just stupid. But especially areas with numerous routes, people will know the ones going through the main road but may not know about the single door single decker that goes through the back streets. To add to that people will know their local commute or local route to the shops and hospital etc but except for that be clueless, that's basing it off the people I know. The phone aspect and tech aspect I agree, we are in a technical age and should embrace it for example the smart city bus stops they have in certain stops in Central London and are planning to introduce in Croydon is something that if work I will be all for. Bus stops should be interactive showing live maps, updates, announcements, led screens etc. www.swlondoner.co.uk/news/03122021-smart-bus-shelters-to-be-introduced-in-croydon
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Feb 28, 2022 17:46:31 GMT
The poll will be locked when I get 75 votes. Get voting and explain your reasoning!!! Might be wrong but do we even have 75 active regular members who post!
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Feb 28, 2022 18:01:19 GMT
I struggle to believe that people would move to an area and not do even a little bit of research on transport, even those who aren’t regular users would have a basic idea of which route to get them to the station or the supermarket etc or hospital. Varying reports put smartphone usage at between 78-87% for 2020 with predictions of near 90% by 2024. I would rather have better tech at bus stops showing the via points on the countdown screen and the bus side blind showing the via points than clutter up front blinds. To your first point, I think you'd be surprised, don't get me wrong I doubt people are moving to an area without research on transport, that's just stupid. But especially areas with numerous routes, people will know the ones going through the main road but may not know about the single door single decker that goes through the back streets. To add to that people will know their local commute or local route to the shops and hospital etc but except for that be clueless, that's basing it off the people I know. The phone aspect and tech aspect I agree, we are in a technical age and should embrace it for example the smart city bus stops they have in certain stops in Central London and are planning to introduce in Croydon is something that if work I will be all for. Bus stops should be interactive showing live maps, updates, announcements, led screens etc. www.swlondoner.co.uk/news/03122021-smart-bus-shelters-to-be-introduced-in-croydonBut if they want a route that takes them to a specific place, for example from their home to the station or the hospital or work why would they need to know that route B/C/D exist, if it isn’t going where they want to go?
|
|
|
Post by thekbq14 on Feb 28, 2022 20:23:05 GMT
To your first point, I think you'd be surprised, don't get me wrong I doubt people are moving to an area without research on transport, that's just stupid. But especially areas with numerous routes, people will know the ones going through the main road but may not know about the single door single decker that goes through the back streets. To add to that people will know their local commute or local route to the shops and hospital etc but except for that be clueless, that's basing it off the people I know. The phone aspect and tech aspect I agree, we are in a technical age and should embrace it for example the smart city bus stops they have in certain stops in Central London and are planning to introduce in Croydon is something that if work I will be all for. Bus stops should be interactive showing live maps, updates, announcements, led screens etc. www.swlondoner.co.uk/news/03122021-smart-bus-shelters-to-be-introduced-in-croydonBut if they want a route that takes them to a specific place, for example from their home to the station or the hospital or work why would they need to know that route B/C/D exist, if it isn’t going where they want to go? Guess you got me there ahaha. Yes that's true tbh they don't but the enthusiast in me believes that everyone should at least know the routes in their local vicinity like you said as you never know when you need to use it. But that's true if one bus takes them to the hospital, work, school, shops etc. then they don't need to know any others as that's just unnecessary long work to remember bus routes you won't use.
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on Feb 28, 2022 20:33:02 GMT
Not everyone is a bus nerd like us. It’s advertising the route as well. If the 96 comes along with Bluewater in block letters it’s obvious that it goes there. If it says via Bexleyheath & Dartford above it, someone might be like oh lets get that on Saturday for a day out. It’s about getting more people onto the buses, not just the regular users.
|
|