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Post by WH241 on Feb 25, 2022 20:36:19 GMT
I've got to admit I find some numbers irk me. 5xx series especially - I would renumber the 507 387, the 521 421 and the 549 449 as suggested. The other one is the number 1 - I hope 168 is used - it just feels like, well it is just a line and if any route is the 1 it should be the modern-day 205 as part of it broadly follows the first ever bus route in London. I would be really surprised if the 1 number was not used! It has been said here numbers don't matter much (Usually when the 24 is discussed) but think the 1 being cut would create negative press versus a 1 being extended. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Feb 25, 2022 20:41:47 GMT
I've got to admit I find some numbers irk me. 5xx series especially - I would renumber the 507 387, the 521 421 and the 549 449 as suggested. The other one is the number 1 - I hope 168 is used - it just feels like, well it is just a line and if any route is the 1 it should be the modern-day 205 as part of it broadly follows the first ever bus route in London. I would be really surprised if the 1 number was not used! It has been said here numbers don't matter much (Usually when the 24 is discussed) but think the 1 being cut would create negative press versus a 1 being extended. I think it will depend on LT's. If the new route can't use them then I am almost certain the number 1 will be used, but if the new route does in fact use them then I think it's much closer but 168 might just be preferred. Although with single-door boarding they are just like conventionals so it might not matter as much as it did with the 10/23. Also I think Hampstead will be more vocal than Canada Water about 'losing' their bus route, so using the 168 number will keep them sweet and make them think there are few changes, hence why the 13 number was kept. |
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Post by WH241 on Feb 25, 2022 22:06:54 GMT
I would be really surprised if the 1 number was not used! It has been said here numbers don't matter much (Usually when the 24 is discussed) but think the 1 being cut would create negative press versus a 1 being extended. I think it will depend on LT's. If the new route can't use them then I am almost certain the number 1 will be used, but if the new route does in fact use them then I think it's much closer but 168 might just be preferred. Although with single-door boarding they are just like conventionals so it might not matter as much as it did with the 10/23. Also I think Hampstead will be more vocal than Canada Water about 'losing' their bus route, so using the 168 number will keep them sweet and make them think there are few changes, hence why the 13 number was kept. I don’t see the vehicle type deciding on what number is used. The LT is just a standard bus now and used in both central and outer London. The current buses from the 168 can easily be moved to another route. |
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 25, 2022 23:00:49 GMT
You still have route 102 which at night is Golders Green to Edmonton Green, while during the day is Edmonton Green to Brent Cross and is classed as a 24 hour route. Interesting I didn’t know that. However it’s very unusual for a Night Route to be shorter than the day route. Do any night routes serve Brent Cross? In the past before the Night tube the 188 night service did not serve Canada Water. None of the Canada Water routes (188, N47, N381) served the bus station between 01:00 and 05:00 every night. It was rather annoying at the time because compared to stops on Lower Road, the bus station is a much better place to wait at night. That changed in the early hours of September 12th 2015 when the N199 was borne and Canada Water bus station could be used 24/7. In contrast to the 102 and the N27, the 271 in the past was extended to Liverpool Street from Moorgate at night. One assumes it was to help out the 214, but it was unusually a 24 hour route that went further at night than during the day. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 25, 2022 23:17:59 GMT
I have some ideas for route numbering in the GLA area. Changing route numbers is tricky because roller blinds are in use still so new blinds would be needed or part of the number painted out. First on the agenda to fill 1-100. SB means "should become". C10 SB 10, 248 SB 48, 282 SB 82. If the current 84 is withdrawn then 284 SB 84 after a few months. Red Arrow routes 507//521 SB 500 and 501 533 SB 503, 733 SB 502. 549 SB 449. 533 and 733 run short routes in cen5ral London and would complement the Red Arrow routes. My plan would put all non Tf L into the 550-599 range. Existing 555 and 581 would not change Routes from Slough to Heathrow SB SL prefix.to route numbers. There is absolutely no need to renumber any routes - it's a waste of time and money especially when TfL has little of the latter to spend. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 26, 2022 2:10:48 GMT
There are only two Red Arrow routes and 500/501 should be revived, along with the suggested 502/503. I think the letter prefix routes should be looked at again with A10 becoming 710, the X26 becoming 708, X68 becoming 709 X140 should become 707, and 607 SB 706. These 700 series routes should come under the brand of FAST LINE as opposed to Green Line which is not appropriate any more as they are limited stop within the GLA area. Never mind new Red Arrow routes, I'd be incredibly surprised if the existing routes were still operating in 2 years time - at the least I'd expect them to be changed in their structure. They look to be increasingly obsolete with the change in commuting habits and increasing switch to hybrid working. Demand was falling prior to Covid too. I was surprised they were reawarded in their present structure even with frequency cuts. Btw, route renumbering is a complete waste of time if you ask me, unless it's a route split or something. Anything to avoid the (admitidley comparatively small) cost of changing bus stops and the confusion to the passengers. Even the W10-456 renumbering scheme I was sceptical about. I agree the 507 & 521 may not last much longer, given other cuts in Central London. The 521 could probably be withdrawn without any replacement, as most links are covered by other routes such as the 17, 76 and 341. The 507's links are more useful and unique, but due to the short route length, it could easily be merged into another route. For example, the 211 could divert between County Hall and Victoria to take over the 507 routeing, instead of Westminster. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 26, 2022 7:36:07 GMT
Never mind new Red Arrow routes, I'd be incredibly surprised if the existing routes were still operating in 2 years time - at the least I'd expect them to be changed in their structure. They look to be increasingly obsolete with the change in commuting habits and increasing switch to hybrid working. Demand was falling prior to Covid too. I was surprised they were reawarded in their present structure even with frequency cuts. Btw, route renumbering is a complete waste of time if you ask me, unless it's a route split or something. Anything to avoid the (admitidley comparatively small) cost of changing bus stops and the confusion to the passengers. Even the W10-456 renumbering scheme I was sceptical about. I agree the 507 & 521 may not last much longer, given other cuts in Central London. The 521 could probably be withdrawn without any replacement, as most links are covered by other routes such as the 17, 76 and 341. The 507's links are more useful and unique, but due to the short route length, it could easily be merged into another route. For example, the 211 could divert between County Hall and Victoria to take over the 507 routeing, instead of Westminster. I do wonder whether with COVID and perhaps also with people leaving London because of higher rates of taxation ie council tax, needing to pay to drive in London whether some people will start travelling in on mainline services to work into Charing X, Victoria, LB, Waterloo etc and perhaps that might then increase the 507/521s loadings a tiny bit? |
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Post by cl54 on Feb 26, 2022 8:06:55 GMT
I agree the 507 & 521 may not last much longer, given other cuts in Central London. The 521 could probably be withdrawn without any replacement, as most links are covered by other routes such as the 17, 76 and 341. The 507's links are more useful and unique, but due to the short route length, it could easily be merged into another route. For example, the 211 could divert between County Hall and Victoria to take over the 507 routeing, instead of Westminster. I do wonder whether with COVID and perhaps also with people leaving London because of higher rates of taxation ie council tax, needing to pay to drive in London whether some people will start travelling in on mainline services to work into Charing X, Victoria, LB, Waterloo etc and perhaps that might then increase the 507/521s loadings a tiny bit? The unique part of the 507 and 521 is that they pick up empty at a convenient point at main line stations and being single deck they clear queues quickly. The large office buildings along Horseferry Road and St Thomas' Hospital are the reason for the 507. The 521's Holborn and St Paul's links are useful from Waterloo and London Bridge. They still have a role for the time being. |
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 26, 2022 8:55:50 GMT
Interesting I didn’t know that. However it’s very unusual for a Night Route to be shorter than the day route. Do any night routes serve Brent Cross? In the past before the Night tube the 188 night service did not serve Canada Water. None of the Canada Water routes (188, N47, N381) served the bus station between 01:00 and 05:00 every night. It was rather annoying at the time because compared to stops on Lower Road, the bus station is a much better place to wait at night. That changed in the early hours of September 12th 2015 when the N199 was borne and Canada Water bus station could be used 24/7. In contrast to the 102 and the N27, the 271 in the past was extended to Liverpool Street from Moorgate at night. One assumes it was to help out the 214, but it was unusually a 24 hour route that went further at night than during the day. Indeed however the N47 & N381 were N Prefixed. 188 is 24 hour. I believe the N1 is the only one not serving Canada Water now. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 26, 2022 9:32:57 GMT
None of the Canada Water routes (188, N47, N381) served the bus station between 01:00 and 05:00 every night. It was rather annoying at the time because compared to stops on Lower Road, the bus station is a much better place to wait at night. That changed in the early hours of September 12th 2015 when the N199 was borne and Canada Water bus station could be used 24/7. In contrast to the 102 and the N27, the 271 in the past was extended to Liverpool Street from Moorgate at night. One assumes it was to help out the 214, but it was unusually a 24 hour route that went further at night than during the day. Indeed however the N47 & N381 were N Prefixed. 188 is 24 hour. I believe the N1 is the only one not serving Canada Water now. Even the first 4 or 5 47s didn't run via the bus station as they were befroe 5am. |
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 26, 2022 11:42:26 GMT
None of the Canada Water routes (188, N47, N381) served the bus station between 01:00 and 05:00 every night. It was rather annoying at the time because compared to stops on Lower Road, the bus station is a much better place to wait at night. That changed in the early hours of September 12th 2015 when the N199 was borne and Canada Water bus station could be used 24/7. In contrast to the 102 and the N27, the 271 in the past was extended to Liverpool Street from Moorgate at night. One assumes it was to help out the 214, but it was unusually a 24 hour route that went further at night than during the day. Indeed however the N47 & N381 were N Prefixed. 188 is 24 hour. I believe the N1 is the only one not serving Canada Water now. It didn't matter what bus route it was, they never called at ZCW past 01:00. Even if you waited for a bus departing 00:55 and it was late, the bus drivers would adhere to the 1am curfew rather strictly and not serve the bus station. |
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 26, 2022 13:11:36 GMT
Indeed however the N47 & N381 were N Prefixed. 188 is 24 hour. I believe the N1 is the only one not serving Canada Water now. It didn't matter what bus route it was, they never called at ZCW past 01:00. Even if you waited for a bus departing 00:55 and it was late, the bus drivers would adhere to the 1am curfew rather strictly and not serve the bus station. If you actually read the above posts properly I was referring to the 188 as it was 24 Hour... I had no interest in the N Prefixes |
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Post by Green Kitten on Feb 26, 2022 14:48:12 GMT
As someone who hates the gaps…
What’s the point?
Except let’s swap the 131 and 222 numbers around.
…and the 368 and 60.
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 26, 2022 14:49:39 GMT
It didn't matter what bus route it was, they never called at ZCW past 01:00. Even if you waited for a bus departing 00:55 and it was late, the bus drivers would adhere to the 1am curfew rather strictly and not serve the bus station. If you actually read the above posts properly I was referring to the 188 as it was 24 Hour... I had no interest in the N Prefixes If you digested any of what I said, it was irrelevant what route that was serving the bus station; the curfew was strictly adhered to by drivers. But my many times of being caught out by this as a teenager is of no relevance to you. I already addressed the night routes, but maybe you didn't read that too. Is it cuz I is east Londoner?  |
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Post by ronnie on Feb 26, 2022 15:41:07 GMT
Indeed however the N47 & N381 were N Prefixed. 188 is 24 hour. I believe the N1 is the only one not serving Canada Water now. It didn't matter what bus route it was, they never called at ZCW past 01:00. Even if you waited for a bus departing 00:55 and it was late, the bus drivers would adhere to the 1am curfew rather strictly and not serve the bus station. Out of curiosity what was the reason for not serving the bus station at night? |
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