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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 13, 2023 17:50:31 GMT
There are enough numbers that we can renumber G1 maybe even the P routes and C routes and other letter routes that serve outside of their family area.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 13, 2023 19:21:12 GMT
In Sydney, route numbers indicate the main area of operation. Routes 300+ are primarily in the SE of the city, 400+ in the SW etc. Naturally some routes cross into another quadrant, but there is an interesting logic to this system. I can’t see how London could ever switch, but if you were starting from scratch….. I would implement the following: 1-99 central London 100-199 SE Zone from River Thames to the A23 200-299 SW Zone from A23 to A40 300-399 NW Zone from A40 to A10 400-499 NE Zone from A10 to River Thames Obviously it would be difficult since there are prefix routes to take into account but perhaps they could be kept the same. There's also cross zonal routes too The only thing good about this is if a low number (1-99) is withdrawn and then reused, I think it should be in Central London. A wholesale renumbering, let’s not. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 13, 2023 22:34:58 GMT
There are enough numbers that we can renumber G1 maybe even the P routes and C routes and other letter routes that serve outside of their family area. For what purpose though? No one is bothered by the G in G1 or the P in the P routes so why bother wasting money on doing so when there are far more pressing issues to deal with |
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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 15, 2023 6:50:17 GMT
There are enough numbers that we can renumber G1 maybe even the P routes and C routes and other letter routes that serve outside of their family area. For what purpose though? No one is bothered by the G in G1 or the P in the P routes so why bother wasting money on doing so when there are far more pressing issues to deal with I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 15, 2023 7:30:32 GMT
For what purpose though? No one is bothered by the G in G1 or the P in the P routes so why bother wasting money on doing so when there are far more pressing issues to deal with I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. Are those people you describe stupid? |
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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 15, 2023 7:50:04 GMT
I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. Are those people you describe stupid? No, maybe the opposite and more importantly not used to buses as you and I. They see a whole load of numbers and then this other oddity and wonder. Could this service be different? I had a similar experience when I went Cambridge and saw these lettered routes and wondered what was special about them. TfL do so many minor changes to reduce confusion and this is similar suggestion. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 15, 2023 8:03:25 GMT
Are those people you describe stupid? No, maybe the opposite and more importantly not used to buses as you and I. They see a whole load of numbers and then this other oddity and wonder. Could this service be different? I had a similar experience when I went Cambridge and saw these lettered routes and wondered what was special about them. TfL do so many minor changes to reduce confusion and this is similar suggestion. The G1, like many daytime lettered routes in London, are far more likely to be used by local people or people visiting local people, who have been told where to go, rather than random people. There are a few exceptions like the C3 but the majority are serving local communities and deviate around main road services. It’s a lot of unnecessary change to support a minority of passengers who might get confused because they are stupid. Outside London lettered routes are far more likely to be main services like the one you likely saw in Cambridge. |
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Post by abellion on Oct 15, 2023 8:16:17 GMT
For what purpose though? No one is bothered by the G in G1 or the P in the P routes so why bother wasting money on doing so when there are far more pressing issues to deal with I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. I use the G1 occassionally and no one is ever confused by it, it only concerns local people who are aware of its presence and what it does. It has iBus, same tap-on readers, London spec buses, etc. if someone thinks it's a non-TfL bus then thats their problem for being silly  |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 15, 2023 8:59:45 GMT
For what purpose though? No one is bothered by the G in G1 or the P in the P routes so why bother wasting money on doing so when there are far more pressing issues to deal with I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. You make a good point and I was at Tunbridge Wells hospital not so long ago and somebody was asking whether the Arriva 6X was available for anyone to use rather than a 'hospital service' and somebody could quite conceivably think the same about the G1. These things might seem obvious to enthusiasts but less so to occasional bus users. I never really understood the need to remove suffix letters years ago as they apparently caused confusion yet prefix letters apparently don't? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 15, 2023 9:29:20 GMT
I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. You make a good point and I was at Tunbridge Wells hospital not so long ago and somebody was asking whether the Arriva 6X was available for anyone to use rather than a 'hospital service' and somebody could quite conceivably think the same about the G1. These things might seem obvious to enthusiasts but less so to occasional bus users. I never really understood the need to remove suffix letters years ago as they apparently caused confusion yet prefix letters apparently don't? But how many people actually know what the G in the G1 stands for in order for them to think it's only for hospital pax? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 15, 2023 9:51:27 GMT
I don't think this thread is for bringing an economic and business case so no consideration is being given to costs. The case is rather based on the oddity of it and when attracting new passengers the G1 particularly stands out and people may think it is a non-TfL service. You make a good point and I was at Tunbridge Wells hospital not so long ago and somebody was asking whether the Arriva 6X was available for anyone to use rather than a 'hospital service' and somebody could quite conceivably think the same about the G1. These things might seem obvious to enthusiasts but less so to occasional bus users. I never really understood the need to remove suffix letters years ago as they apparently caused confusion yet prefix letters apparently don't? Again where routes ran for so long I think most people knew the difference between the 77 and 77A. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 15, 2023 12:13:38 GMT
You make a good point and I was at Tunbridge Wells hospital not so long ago and somebody was asking whether the Arriva 6X was available for anyone to use rather than a 'hospital service' and somebody could quite conceivably think the same about the G1. These things might seem obvious to enthusiasts but less so to occasional bus users. I never really understood the need to remove suffix letters years ago as they apparently caused confusion yet prefix letters apparently don't? Again where routes ran for so long I think most people knew the difference between the 77 and 77A. Even so, for many years we did not have the standardised network we have now. I can remember route 77a being Mon-Fri but there being a weekend route 77c in its place. Also, route 77 was extended from Aldwych to Euston on Mon-Fri (daytimes or peaks only, I forget which) and to King's Cross on Sundays. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 15, 2023 12:22:43 GMT
Again where routes ran for so long I think most people knew the difference between the 77 and 77A. Even so, for many years we did not have the standardised network we have now. I can remember route 77a being Mon-Fri but there being a weekend route 77c in its place. Also, route 77 was extended from Aldwych to Euston on Mon-Fri (daytimes or peaks only, I forget which) and to King's Cross on Sundays. Although the 77A was a seven day a week service when it was changed to the 87. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 15, 2023 12:52:49 GMT
Touched on this on another thread, but there is remarkable inconsistency about all this. Again, I am not advocating for any widespread renumbering although the odd tweak could be made where appropriate where routes change or merge.
Route numbers and series undeniably communicate *something* whether we think they do or not. Why else were all school buses numbered 6**? Or mobility services 8/9**? Or local networks given prefixes? The message to passengers, even if subconscious is important. Do not underestimate the barriers to non-bus users in understanding how the network works: we know all this, they've only just started looking at it. In many cases, renumbering would only cause more confusion and bad publicity when people think their route is disappearing (the 168 being the most recent example). But there may be cases where it could clarify how things fit together.
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Post by ronnie on Oct 15, 2023 13:32:59 GMT
Touched on this on another thread, but there is remarkable inconsistency about all this. Again, I am not advocating for any widespread renumbering although the odd tweak could be made where appropriate where routes change or merge. Route numbers and series undeniably communicate *something* whether we think they do or not. Why else were all school buses numbered 6**? Or mobility services 8/9**? Or local networks given prefixes? The message to passengers, even if subconscious is important. Do not underestimate the barriers to non-bus users in understanding how the network works: we know all this, they've only just started looking at it. In many cases, renumbering would only cause more confusion and bad publicity when people think their route is disappearing (the 168 being the most recent example). But there may be cases where it could clarify how things fit together. Out of curiosity what does the G in G1 stand for? |
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