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Post by greenboy on Mar 29, 2023 17:48:45 GMT
<snip> The route would still exist but probably at a lower frequency in addition the fact it is now being trimmed to Bexleyheath Library I would expect if this X269 is introduced it to become Low Frequency. The route is very quiet off peak and waiting an extra 3 minutes is not an issue it was over bussed when it ran every 10 if it was reduced to every 30 minutes then something can be said. In fact the evening service of every 20 minutes should become every 30 as it is very quiet. On the few occasions I have used the 269 in the evening, I have found the service poor; reduce it to every 30 and I'd not bother and get an Uber instead (even though I've got free travel). I understand your point but the 269 is pretty dead in the evening, it also misses out on potential customers in Bromley whilst the 162 can often get overloaded as it does actually serve the town centre. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 29, 2023 18:07:56 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. I'd cut it to Bexley then extend to Erith via Crayford and Slade Green. Tfl are unlikely to fund another outside London route. Would give Slade Green more cross borough links. I do agree with you about going through West Wickham, it seems preferable to me over going through Beckenham and having to be SD |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 29, 2023 18:11:19 GMT
With various different ideas being suggested for the superloop - if the budget were to be available in the future, perhaps it might be a good idea to expand the network into two separate orbital corridors around London? The outer loop could consist of the X26/X140 and proposed Bexleyheath-Bromley-Croydon sections, but with the routes east of Harrow pushed slightly further out. Perhaps via Edgware, Enfield and Chingford as some have suggested, then continuing eastwards roughly following the 179 and EL1? Could even extend the Bexleyheath route to Thamesmead, with a ferry service introduced connecting to Barking Riverside for cross-river journeys? Particularly as any kind of rail link here is unlikely to happen any time soon, and with a pier recently opened at Barking. An inner loop could then cover something along the following lines: Ealing - Wembley - Brent Cross - Wood Green - Walthamstow - Stratford - Royal Docks - Silvertown Tunnel - North Greenwich - Lewisham - Catford - Crystal Palace - Streatham - Wimbledon - Richmond - Ealing The SW section would be quite hard to manage, because between Wimbledon and Richmond, Wimbledon Common and Richmond Park get in the way, forcing a diversion either via Putney or Kingston. The former would most likely involve using the South Circular around East Sheen which isn't a great idea |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 29, 2023 18:34:32 GMT
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 29, 2023 18:45:27 GMT
Double the fares on these routes perhaps, or have them excluded from the hopper fare? Even then the X26 at £1.75 is extremely generous, at one point you could travel from, Orpington to Heathrow by bus and tram using the hopper pare (this was when the time limit was 70 minutes as opposed to the current 62) Geoff Marshall did a good video on it (Furthest distance you can travel using the then £1.50 hopper fare) www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL6Asp01R_g |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 29, 2023 18:48:48 GMT
Can’t really speak for north of the river, where you will have far better knowledge than me (particularly of course out east), but the southern part of the Superloop seems to me to be the obvious choice - Bexleyheath round to Bromley and Croydon is what most local people would consider to be the link to have, and of course therr is the current X26 in the west. I should think little/nothing would need to be done to the current 119, but the current routes between Bexleyheath and Sidcup would need looking at in some way as parts of that network would be rather over bussed, as neither the 229 nor the 269 are particularly strong performers south of Bexleyheath to Sidcup now. How you’d solve that conundrum? I’ll think! I think Bexleyheath to Sidcup has been overbussed since the 229 was altered and the 269 introduced in the 70s, maybe just alternate buses on the 229 between Bexleyheath and Queen Mary's? Problem with that would be finding a terminal for the 229 - Bexleyheath has hardly any terminating space as it is, even with the 269/B13/B14 change. I guess on balance that wirewiper ‘s idea of the 269 morphing into the X269 is the best solution I’ve seen so far, but I think I’d swap the routing of the 229/X269 north of Sidcup so that the 229 did Foots Cray Lane/Faraday Avenue, and the (X)269 the west end of Hurst Road, minus the stop at Sidcup Leisure Centre, which I’d have removed, to add a little more express quality. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 29, 2023 18:52:07 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. Not sure that’s much of a winner, I’m afraid. I have my doubts about an express service stopping at Shirley, and the 96 already does an express run to Bluewater from Dartford. I still would rather see Bexleyheath - Sidcup - Bromley - Croydon with whatever stops are deemed necessary. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 29, 2023 18:53:11 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. I'd cut it to Bexley then extend to Erith via Crayford and Slade Green. Tfl are unlikely to fund another outside London route. Would give Slade Green more cross borough links. I do agree with you about going through West Wickham, it seems preferable to me over going through Beckenham and having to be SD Crayford/Slade Green/Erith is more than adequately served by the 428 imo. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 29, 2023 19:29:53 GMT
With various different ideas being suggested for the superloop - if the budget were to be available in the future, perhaps it might be a good idea to expand the network into two separate orbital corridors around London? The outer loop could consist of the X26/X140 and proposed Bexleyheath-Bromley-Croydon sections, but with the routes east of Harrow pushed slightly further out. Perhaps via Edgware, Enfield and Chingford as some have suggested, then continuing eastwards roughly following the 179 and EL1? Could even extend the Bexleyheath route to Thamesmead, with a ferry service introduced connecting to Barking Riverside for cross-river journeys? Particularly as any kind of rail link here is unlikely to happen any time soon, and with a pier recently opened at Barking. An inner loop could then cover something along the following lines: Ealing - Wembley - Brent Cross - Wood Green - Walthamstow - Stratford - Royal Docks - Silvertown Tunnel - North Greenwich - Lewisham - Catford - Crystal Palace - Streatham - Wimbledon - Richmond - Ealing The SW section would be quite hard to manage, because between Wimbledon and Richmond, Wimbledon Common and Richmond Park get in the way, forcing a diversion either via Putney or Kingston. The former would most likely involve using the South Circular around East Sheen which isn't a great idea I was thinking via Roehampton (via the 493 to Putney Heath, then 93 to Wimbledon), but that would still use a short section of the South Circular |
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Post by rift on Mar 29, 2023 20:01:15 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. Not sure that’s much of a winner, I’m afraid. I have my doubts about an express service stopping at Shirley, and the 96 already does an express run to Bluewater from Dartford. I still would rather see Bexleyheath - Sidcup - Bromley - Croydon with whatever stops are deemed necessary. Not trying to take away from your idea, I think it’s great, but do you think there would also be potential in sending it through Eltham instead of Sidcup? Would mean that the 229/269 wouldn’t have to be meddled with, and can take pressure off the 126/162 and 132. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Mar 29, 2023 20:13:22 GMT
Surely not via the 147. Based on the 129 and the Silvertown consultation, which was published yesterday, it could be Custom House as with the tunnel, North Greenwich pier is close enough. Although they would have advertised the Cable Car image and they would take any chance to do that. The housing developments make it likely it is Custom House rather than North Woolwich. If the 129 and this bus comes in, I suspect that the 473 could be in line for the chop here. If it is Custom House then the stand will be a issue as I mentioned yesterday. I agree with what you say about traveling via the 147 route as that would be anything but express 
I do think Eastlondoner62 could be onto something with the terminal being North Woolwich as this would then form the loop via the ferry or foot tunnel. the route could always start from Royal Wharf/Pontoon Dock or London City Airport before heading up to Custom House via Silvertown Way then stopping off at Gallons Reach to serve the new housing development there, then via the A406, stopping in Barking to Ilford then Gants Hill and via Woodford Avenue to Walthamstow. I'm not sure why TfL feel the need to number them "X183" etc, they could simply be numbered "X1" or "SL1" or even letter each route. |
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Post by gwiwer on Mar 29, 2023 21:11:15 GMT
The X26 I assume doesn't have much traffic hotspots, ik assuming around Worcester Park and not much else? It has its moments. Kingston can cause delays of 20 - 30 minutes on a bad day just because of the one-way system. Central Croydon isn't immune either nor is Sutton. One reason the X26 takes as long as it does is the slack built in to accommodate some of these delays. If its entire LOR was on 30mph roads and a way could be found to get through Kingston reliably within the scheduled time then 15 - 20 minutes could be cut from the end-to-end running time. The operator has a stand-by vehicle parked at Heathrow when ever available, I believe, to cover for late inbound arrivals. |
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Post by gwiwer on Mar 29, 2023 21:14:07 GMT
And here comes the issue I was referring to - what happens to those who don't require one of those stops you've listed on their journey? They end up with a worse service because they now have a 15 minute service to rely on and may actually end up looking for an alternative like Uber for example, that as a consequence, also bypasses using the express route. Especially if the routes are like the X26 which can go miles without stopping. If like the 607 then it's not so bad as when I travel on the routes it generally seems like it skips every 3 to 4 207/427 stops. Whereas the X26 can be atleast 2 miles between Worcester Park and New Malden and another 2 miles atleats to Kingston etc. And how far from Teddington to Hatton Cross? 5 miles between stops. I refer to my comments elsewhere about adding a stop in Feltham at Harlington Road. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 29, 2023 21:28:52 GMT
It has its moments. Kingston can cause delays of 20 - 30 minutes on a bad day just because of the one-way system. Central Croydon isn't immune either nor is Sutton. One reason the X26 takes as long as it does is the slack built in to accommodate some of these delays. If its entire LOR was on 30mph roads and a way could be found to get through Kingston reliably within the scheduled time then 15 - 20 minutes could be cut from the end-to-end running time. The operator has a stand-by vehicle parked at Heathrow when ever available, I believe, to cover for late inbound arrivals. Kingston Town Centre itself isn't too bad most of the time, it's worse on Saturdays but weekdays it's alright. Worcester Park and New Malden are really the biggest issues along the route, Central Road in Worcester Park needs a bus lane towards New Malden, the 2 sets of traffic lights either side of the railway bridge in Worcester Park need a good look at, the pedestrian crossing on Malden Road just off the New Malden Fountain roundabout needs to be removed and some of the awful cycle lane installations on Kingston Road/Cambridge Road between New Malden and Kingston also need to be removed. Even with all of these problems, the timetable has too much padding anyway, so some time can be removed. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 29, 2023 21:29:34 GMT
The X26 I assume doesn't have much traffic hotspots, ik assuming around Worcester Park and not much else? It has its moments. Kingston can cause delays of 20 - 30 minutes on a bad day just because of the one-way system. Central Croydon isn't immune either nor is Sutton. One reason the X26 takes as long as it does is the slack built in to accommodate some of these delays. If its entire LOR was on 30mph roads and a way could be found to get through Kingston reliably within the scheduled time then 15 - 20 minutes could be cut from the end-to-end running time. The operator has a stand-by vehicle parked at Heathrow when ever available, I believe, to cover for late inbound arrivals. I think QL used to have a standby vehicle but I don’t think Go Ahead do. I’ve never seen one there. |
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