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Post by londonbuses on Mar 29, 2023 21:33:20 GMT
I think QL used to have a standby vehicle but I don’t think Go Ahead do. I’ve never seen one there. I believe GAL increased the PVR from 9 to 10 when they took over the route, and used that extra bus to add a lot of padding onto the timetable which negated the need for the standby vehicle. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 29, 2023 21:38:28 GMT
It has its moments. Kingston can cause delays of 20 - 30 minutes on a bad day just because of the one-way system. Central Croydon isn't immune either nor is Sutton. One reason the X26 takes as long as it does is the slack built in to accommodate some of these delays. If its entire LOR was on 30mph roads and a way could be found to get through Kingston reliably within the scheduled time then 15 - 20 minutes could be cut from the end-to-end running time. The operator has a stand-by vehicle parked at Heathrow when ever available, I believe, to cover for late inbound arrivals. Kingston Town Centre itself isn't too bad most of the time, it's worse on Saturdays but weekdays it's alright. Worcester Park and New Malden are really the biggest issues along the route, Central Road in Worcester Park needs a bus lane towards New Malden, the 2 sets of traffic lights either side of the railway bridge in Worcester Park need a good look at, the pedestrian crossing on Malden Road just off the New Malden Fountain roundabout needs to be removed and some of the awful cycle lane installations on Kingston Road/Cambridge Road between New Malden and Kingston also need to be removed. There isn’t space on Central Road for a bus lane, it would require a major redesign, heavy narrowing of the pavement and removal of a lot of parking. Even then it would be a waste as Central Road clears entirely during the day and evening. There have been numerous proposals over the years to remove the fountain roundabout, the fountain itself is non functional and iirc just a fibreglass structure but all have failed. Also as long as Kingston has its vision for its little Holland cycle structures they aren’t going anywhere, but traffic isn’t anywhere near as bad it could be. In fact Central Road has improved a lot, I remember mornings where 213s were stuck for almost an hour. I often would get off by North End Tavern and walk to pick up a 213 at the station because it saved a good 30 minutes of traffic. Rest assured though I understand solving the issue is still a priority for the excellent councillors in Worcester Park. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 29, 2023 21:44:03 GMT
I think QL used to have a standby vehicle but I don’t think Go Ahead do. I’ve never seen one there. I believe GAL increased the PVR from 9 to 10 when they took over the route, and used that extra bus to add a lot of padding onto the timetable which negated the need for the standby vehicle. Which makes sense, the Quality Line tenure was chaotic and the amount of times buses just didn’t show up or were really late was obscene. I remember one time an OV worked the peak and it was like being a sardine in a tin. Thank god I stood near the rear door because it was so hot and sticky in the height of that summer. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 29, 2023 21:47:56 GMT
Kingston Town Centre itself isn't too bad most of the time, it's worse on Saturdays but weekdays it's alright. Worcester Park and New Malden are really the biggest issues along the route, Central Road in Worcester Park needs a bus lane towards New Malden, the 2 sets of traffic lights either side of the railway bridge in Worcester Park need a good look at, the pedestrian crossing on Malden Road just off the New Malden Fountain roundabout needs to be removed and some of the awful cycle lane installations on Kingston Road/Cambridge Road between New Malden and Kingston also need to be removed. There isn’t space on Central Road for a bus lane, it would require a major redesign, heavy narrowing of the pavement and removal of a lot of parking. Even then it would be a waste as Central Road clears entirely during the day and evening. There have been numerous proposals over the years to remove the fountain roundabout, the fountain itself is non functional and iirc just a fibreglass structure but all have failed. Also as long as Kingston has its vision for its little Holland cycle structures they aren’t going anywhere, but traffic isn’t anywhere near as bad it could be. In fact Central Road has improved a lot, I remember mornings where 213s were stuck for almost an hour. I often would get off by North End Tavern and walk to pick up a 213 at the station because it saved a good 30 minutes of traffic. Rest assured though I understand solving the issue is still a priority for the excellent councillors in Worcester Park. I disagree on Central Road, there is space for a bus lane in one direction which would only require small amounts of the pavement to be removed as well as a few parking spaces in different places along the road. The Fountain Roundabout is fine, it's the stupidly placed pedestrian crossing about a metre off the roundabout which causes a problem. I know they will never be removed, but the cycle installations are clearly the problem on Kingston Road, as soon as you get to the end of the section with the new cycle lane, the traffic just starts flowing normally. I agree Central Road has improved a bit recently, but solving the traffic issues still requires some changes. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 29, 2023 21:57:50 GMT
There isn’t space on Central Road for a bus lane, it would require a major redesign, heavy narrowing of the pavement and removal of a lot of parking. Even then it would be a waste as Central Road clears entirely during the day and evening. There have been numerous proposals over the years to remove the fountain roundabout, the fountain itself is non functional and iirc just a fibreglass structure but all have failed. Also as long as Kingston has its vision for its little Holland cycle structures they aren’t going anywhere, but traffic isn’t anywhere near as bad it could be. In fact Central Road has improved a lot, I remember mornings where 213s were stuck for almost an hour. I often would get off by North End Tavern and walk to pick up a 213 at the station because it saved a good 30 minutes of traffic. Rest assured though I understand solving the issue is still a priority for the excellent councillors in Worcester Park. I disagree on Central Road, there is space for a bus lane in one direction which would only require small amounts of the pavement to be removed as well as a few parking spaces in different places along the road. The Fountain Roundabout is fine, it's the stupidly placed pedestrian crossing about a metre off the roundabout which causes a problem. I know they will never be removed, but the cycle installations are clearly the problem on Kingston Road, as soon as you get to the end of the section with the new cycle lane, the traffic just starts flowing normally. I agree Central Road has improved a bit recently, but solving the traffic issues still requires some changes. It would be expensive for little benefit. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 22:08:50 GMT
I guess one of the big challenges will be sourcing enough drivers to introduce these routes as it’s already a challenge to get staff (are the current express routes popular with drivers and therefore easier to fill the rotas?) I think they would be popular with drivers, but at the expense of standard routes sourcing drivers away from it. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 22:10:50 GMT
Honestly with all the roadworks/temp lights, LTNs closing side roads and 20mph limits actually forcing everyone to go much slower. Your better off getting tube/train where you can. It is just Khan doing something Boris said he was going to do. In some ways some would work, others, I see as pointless and would not last long. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 22:14:40 GMT
Makes sense, as the proposed Harrow to North Finchley route goes via Northwick Park and Hendon, which I knew it was going to go via the 183 route. I wouldn't be surprised if the 183 gets a slight reduction in frequency. There's was talk a while ago about a potential express route going along the 183 route. I guess the North Finchley to Walthamstow one would be provisionally numbered 'X34'. Wouldn't be much of an express route, sitting on roads narrowed by Khan himself during covid, cheek by jowl with the regular 34, 184, 232... then those joyous cycle lanes and 20 zones in Walthamstow  As for the 183, the traffic in Hendon is brutal when joining the A5 Edgware Road from the train station as you go over the M1. Road speeds are too low, many more are working from home or on 3 or 4 day working weeks, so in the daytimes, the buses will carry oxygen after rush hour and school run is done. There seems to be a lot of money to waste (such as naming Overground lines) now the begging bowl has been put away  Plus if there is any closure on the A406 like there was today due to a RTC which closed the road for nearly 5 hours; you may as well give up. Routes like 34, 232, 221, 184, 141, 329, 121, 298, 251, 102 got completely decimated. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 22:16:02 GMT
I was looking back at the last tender result and the X26 was £2,747.000 a year. That would be nearly half the £6m budget TFL have set out this year. x15 min and you’re looking closer to £5m Not getting carried away with any of this yet. For all that is known currently , how do we know standard routes like the 34, 183 & 269 will be cut in frequency as a consequence. That must be very likely. More than likely the 34 would, they would use the route being up for tender now as the best excuse to do it. |
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Post by yunus on Mar 29, 2023 22:20:02 GMT
x15 min and you’re looking closer to £5m Not getting carried away with any of this yet. For all that is known currently , how do we know standard routes like the 34, 183 & 269 will be cut in frequency as a consequence. That must be very likely. More than likely the 34 would, they would use the route being up for tender now as the best excuse to do it. Shame the 34 missed out on two year extension! Wonder if it will continue with it's G3 HEVs or get new buses? |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 29, 2023 22:48:47 GMT
I say this every time because it's clear in a number of these frequency cuts that demand hasn't increased and more likely has dropped as a result. It might be an extra three minutes to me or you but to some, it's the line between waiting those 3 minutes or getting something alternative like Uber and saving them time overall given Uber is meant to be point to point. So actually, you could end up trading those who the express route is being aimed at which seems more towards the ULEZ scheme and getting people out of their cars for existing customers who may get annoyed their normal route drops to low frequency and seek alternatives as a result. Whether you agree with me or not, it's something that shouldn't be just dismissed and should be thought about carefully. I'm confused what the 211 has to do with express routes? You many not agree with me that is fine however the 269 is mainly 30 Roads so an express would be quite popular as I have said. The route itself at certain times of the day can be sitting at bus stops to even out the service, it is only heavily used during peak hours so if this plan ever does go ahead 4 buses per hour can be justified. I’ve already said I like the overall concept but worry about its implementation and one of the worries is what happens to existing routes on the corridors involved. There is a difference between justified and what people are actually willing to accept |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 23:05:26 GMT
I agree with the majority of what he says. Although I think the fare should still be £1.75 though. |
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 29, 2023 23:06:46 GMT
I'd suggest this for a SE London orbital route: X25 or X29 West Croydon to Bluewater Stops at West Croydon, East Croydon, Shirley Library, West Wickham High Street, Hayes Station, Bromley South, Bromley Town Centre, Bickley, Chislehurst Station, Chislehurst War Memorial, Queen Mary Hospital, Sidcup Town Centre, Sidcup Station, Albany Park, Bexley, Dartford, Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater. Not sure that’s much of a winner, I’m afraid. I have my doubts about an express service stopping at Shirley, and the 96 already does an express run to Bluewater from Dartford. I still would rather see Bexleyheath - Sidcup - Bromley - Croydon with whatever stops are deemed necessary. As a Croydon resident, I can say I would rather a service to Bluewater, than Bexleyheath. I have never been to Bexleyheath, or have any desired to, but Bluewater, I have been to. Where are the passenger flows going to be? Who in Croydon wants to go to Bexleyheath? Who in Bexleyheath wants to go to Croydon? What exactly are the passenger flows you envisage? How exactly is the 96 relevant for a route originating in Croydon? |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 23:08:30 GMT
Plans for an orbital bus network were in Boris Johnson's manifesto in 2008, but all he ended up doing was doubling the frequency of the X26 (to two an hour). image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/04/22/transport_manifesto.pdf15 years later, Sadiq Khan has dug this one up again. His only concrete plan is to... double the frequency of the X26 (to four an hour). Funny old world. I don't think it's a bad idea - particularly in SE London where restoring that old 726 corridor would be useful. I can't really speak for the other bits. But it's not clear what problems he's trying to solve here other than a political one. And the whole thing's laced with the usual cynicism of dressing up long-established and long-proposed routes and implying they're brand new. As has been said on here, Bexleyheath to Bromley feels a bit short. Even Erith to Bromley would be an improvement if you're trying to get people out of cars. Cross-boundary links (especially Bluewater) feel like an elephant in the room - perhaps the experience of the short-lived Arriva X29/429 when Bluewater opened scared them off, even though that was 20 years back now. The other odd one is Walthamstow to Royal Docks - finishing just short of a £2bn "public-transport focused" (aye, right) tunnel that could take that bus to Greenwich (perhaps) and be a real game changer. Maybe that'll get reviewed at a later stage. And express/limited stop links to Woolwich for the Elizabeth Line from places like Eltham and Sidcup would be very popular, particularly since train services have been cut in that area. But they're not there, despite years of pressure from within Greenwich. There'll be other places that seem like odd misses. Done right, this could be really good. But It's got to be done right. And they have to be patient too - it took a long while for the X26 to become popular, and it may take a while for these new routes to catch on too. I remember Boris did say he was going to do this. Trouble is, with Boris and Ken, a lot of these ideas actually come from other staff within TfL, and these people tend to take the credit for it. The same now has even been said of the superloop scheme. |
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Post by Paul on Mar 30, 2023 10:39:30 GMT
I guess one of the big challenges will be sourcing enough drivers to introduce these routes as it’s already a challenge to get staff (are the current express routes popular with drivers and therefore easier to fill the rotas?) I think they would be popular with drivers, but at the expense of standard routes sourcing drivers away from it. Depending on the rota and the duties, I’d be interested in driving an ‘X269’ - even more so if twobellstogo’s suggestion it be extended to cover the Croydon part is taken up |
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