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Post by bustavane on Mar 30, 2023 13:55:29 GMT
Not sure that’s much of a winner, I’m afraid. I have my doubts about an express service stopping at Shirley, and the 96 already does an express run to Bluewater from Dartford. I still would rather see Bexleyheath - Sidcup - Bromley - Croydon with whatever stops are deemed necessary. As a Croydon resident, I can say I would rather a service to Bluewater, than Bexleyheath. I have never been to Bexleyheath, or have any desired to, but Bluewater, I have been to. Where are the passenger flows going to be? Who in Croydon wants to go to Bexleyheath? Who in Bexleyheath wants to go to Croydon? What exactly are the passenger flows you envisage? How exactly is the 96 relevant for a route originating in Croydon? If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... |
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Post by uakari on Mar 30, 2023 14:02:03 GMT
x15 min and you’re looking closer to £5m Not getting carried away with any of this yet. For all that is known currently , how do we know standard routes like the 34, 183 & 269 will be cut in frequency as a consequence. That must be very likely. More than likely the 34 would, they would use the route being up for tender now as the best excuse to do it. Why do TfL hate Barnet so much (the town, not the borough)? |
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Post by rift on Mar 30, 2023 14:09:55 GMT
As a Croydon resident, I can say I would rather a service to Bluewater, than Bexleyheath. I have never been to Bexleyheath, or have any desired to, but Bluewater, I have been to. Where are the passenger flows going to be? Who in Croydon wants to go to Bexleyheath? Who in Bexleyheath wants to go to Croydon? What exactly are the passenger flows you envisage? How exactly is the 96 relevant for a route originating in Croydon? If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... What plus? Croydon is no longer the destination it once was, and Bexleyheath already has a good range of mid range retail, while Bluewater and Bromley are nearly for more high end shopping. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 30, 2023 14:30:28 GMT
As a Croydon resident, I can say I would rather a service to Bluewater, than Bexleyheath. I have never been to Bexleyheath, or have any desired to, but Bluewater, I have been to. Where are the passenger flows going to be? Who in Croydon wants to go to Bexleyheath? Who in Bexleyheath wants to go to Croydon? What exactly are the passenger flows you envisage? How exactly is the 96 relevant for a route originating in Croydon? If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... TBH, if I was going somewhere from Bexleyheath, it wouldn't be Croydon which, for a better term, the town centre is a dump at the moment - Bromley is a good destination though |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 30, 2023 14:32:39 GMT
As a Croydon resident, I can say I would rather a service to Bluewater, than Bexleyheath. I have never been to Bexleyheath, or have any desired to, but Bluewater, I have been to. Where are the passenger flows going to be? Who in Croydon wants to go to Bexleyheath? Who in Bexleyheath wants to go to Croydon? What exactly are the passenger flows you envisage? How exactly is the 96 relevant for a route originating in Croydon? If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... I highly doubt Bexleyheath to Croydon would be a big flow to be honest - nobody in the right mind is actively choosing to go to Croydon, especially on a route that passes through Bromley, which has a good range of shops and facilities and is a much nicer area. Additionally I would suspect people would rather use the train (via London Bridge) for a journey such as Bexleyheath to Croydon - it would probably still be faster than an express bus, especially at peak times. In fact, I've just checked, using the train (Southeastern then Southern/Thameslink) is actually faster than driving from Bexleyheath to Croydon. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 30, 2023 14:55:48 GMT
If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... I highly doubt Bexleyheath to Croydon would be a big flow to be honest - nobody in the right mind is actively choosing to go to Croydon, especially on a route that passes through Bromley, which has a good range of shops and facilities and is a much nicer area. Additionally I would suspect people would rather use the train (via London Bridge) for a journey such as Bexleyheath to Croydon - it would probably still be faster than an express bus, especially at peak times. In fact, I've just checked, using the train (Southeastern then Southern/Thameslink) is actually faster than driving from Bexleyheath to Croydon. Keeping Croydon-Bromley and Bromley-Bexleyheath as separate routes allows them to operate at differing frequencies. I can't see much demand for travel across Bromley, South East London doesn't have a major traffic objective such as Heathrow Airport which would justify a long route like the X26. More important is local connectivity. The X140, which seems to be the prototype route for the Superloop concept, records that 40% of its passengers transfer to or from another route as part of their journey. That would probably mean that the demand from Bexleyheath to Bromley is not so much onward travel to Croydon, but more local connections. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 30, 2023 15:06:25 GMT
If you were a Bexleyheath resident, a service to Croydon might be a plus... TBH, if I was going somewhere from Bexleyheath, it wouldn't be Croydon which, for a better term, the town centre is a dump at the moment - Bromley is a good destination though The service is not only meant for end to end, but could be for more local cross Bromley borough links like Elmers End/West Wickham to Sidcup/Chislehurst. Not everyone will go to Croydon and I'm assuming passenger flow from Croydon wouldn't go beyond Bromley |
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Post by COBO on Mar 30, 2023 15:21:10 GMT
Harrow online did an online article about the x140 joining the super bus and they linked to there Facebook page not many people knew that the 140 did not go to Heathrow Airport anymore.
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 30, 2023 15:24:46 GMT
I've previously suggested that the Superloop should ideally expand to two separate orbits around London, which along with the Overground would provide an extensive network of orbital links.
However, if the budget only allows for one circle, I think it should be something along the lines of the following. This would also utilise the Woolwich Ferry to complete the circle for cross-river journeys. Not going to suggest route numbers here, but would suggest the following 5 services:
Route A - Woolwich to Croydon, via Eltham, Grove Park, Bromley and West Wickham.
Route B - current X26 (with extra stop added at Feltham).
Route C - Heathrow Airport to Edgware, via M4 spur, Shepiston Lane, Hayes & Harlington Station, Hayes Grapes and The Parkway to Yeading, then current X140 to Harrow and 186 to Edgware.
Route D - Edgware to Edmonton Green, via the 221 to Mill Hill, then Devonshire Road, Finchley Central, North Finchley, Friern Barnet, Arnos Grove, Palmers Green, and the 102 to Edmonton Green.
Route E - Edmonton Green to North Woolwich, via Meridian Water, Crooked Billet, Walthamstow Central, Whipps Cross, Green Man Interchange, Redbridge Station, Ilford, Barking and Gallions Reach.
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Post by uakari on Mar 30, 2023 17:20:08 GMT
I've previously suggested that the Superloop should ideally expand to two separate orbits around London, which along with the Overground would provide an extensive network of orbital links. However, if the budget only allows for one circle, I think it should be something along the lines of the following. This would also utilise the Woolwich Ferry to complete the circle for cross-river journeys. Not going to suggest route numbers here, but would suggest the following 5 services: Route A - Woolwich to Croydon, via Eltham, Grove Park, Bromley and West Wickham. Route B - current X26 (with extra stop added at Feltham). Route C - Heathrow Airport to Edgware, via M4 spur, Shepiston Lane, Hayes & Harlington Station, Hayes Grapes and The Parkway to Yeading, then current X140 to Harrow and 186 to Edgware. Route D - Edgware to Edmonton Green, via the 221 to Mill Hill, then Devonshire Road, Finchley Central, North Finchley, Friern Barnet, Arnos Grove, Palmers Green, and the 102 to Edmonton Green. Route E - Edmonton Green to North Woolwich, via Meridian Water, Crooked Billet, Walthamstow Central, Whipps Cross, Green Man Interchange, Redbridge Station, Ilford, Barking and Gallions Reach. When did North Finchley become the centre of the universe? It barely counts as outer London. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 30, 2023 17:32:41 GMT
I've previously suggested that the Superloop should ideally expand to two separate orbits around London, which along with the Overground would provide an extensive network of orbital links. However, if the budget only allows for one circle, I think it should be something along the lines of the following. This would also utilise the Woolwich Ferry to complete the circle for cross-river journeys. Not going to suggest route numbers here, but would suggest the following 5 services: Route A - Woolwich to Croydon, via Eltham, Grove Park, Bromley and West Wickham. Route B - current X26 (with extra stop added at Feltham). Route C - Heathrow Airport to Edgware, via M4 spur, Shepiston Lane, Hayes & Harlington Station, Hayes Grapes and The Parkway to Yeading, then current X140 to Harrow and 186 to Edgware. Route D - Edgware to Edmonton Green, via the 221 to Mill Hill, then Devonshire Road, Finchley Central, North Finchley, Friern Barnet, Arnos Grove, Palmers Green, and the 102 to Edmonton Green. Route E - Edmonton Green to North Woolwich, via Meridian Water, Crooked Billet, Walthamstow Central, Whipps Cross, Green Man Interchange, Redbridge Station, Ilford, Barking and Gallions Reach. When did North Finchley become the centre of the universe? It barely counts as outer London. North Finchley is a strategic interchange. If the X140 - the prototype Superloop route if ever there was one - is anything to go by, a significant number of Superloop passengers will connect to or from another bus as part of their journey. |
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Post by uakari on Mar 30, 2023 17:40:29 GMT
When did North Finchley become the centre of the universe? It barely counts as outer London. North Finchley is a strategic interchange. If the X140 - the prototype Superloop route if ever there was one - is anything to go by, a significant number of Superloop passengers will connect to or from another bus as part of their journey. What on earth is a 'strategic interchange'? And no they won't, because the stopping buses will obviously have their frequencies vastly reduced, if they survive at all (eg 34). |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 30, 2023 17:47:28 GMT
North Finchley is a strategic interchange. If the X140 - the prototype Superloop route if ever there was one - is anything to go by, a significant number of Superloop passengers will connect to or from another bus as part of their journey. What on earth is a 'strategic interchange'? And no they won't, because the stopping buses will obviously have their frequencies vastly reduced, if they survive at all (eg 34). By "strategic interchange", I mean a location well-placed for people to make onward connections (in this case by other bus services). A number of terminating and through services already meet there. Not all journeys can be catered for with direct services and convenient interchange widens the number of journey possibilities, which is why interchanges are important. |
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Post by uakari on Mar 30, 2023 17:57:56 GMT
What on earth is a 'strategic interchange'? And no they won't, because the stopping buses will obviously have their frequencies vastly reduced, if they survive at all (eg 34). By "strategic interchange", I mean a location well-placed for people to make onward connections (in this case by other bus services). A number of terminating and through services already meet there. Not all journeys can be catered for with direct services and convenient interchange widens the number of journey possibilities, which is why interchanges are important. If somewhere already has a lot of bus routes, it doesn't really need any more, does it? No one is going to get on a bus say from Barnet to North Finchley then change for a bus to Harrow via... Hendon? Would take hours. No one is going to get a bus from Enfield to Edmonton to go to Ilford via... Walthamstow? None of this makes any sense. |
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Post by WH241 on Mar 30, 2023 19:21:57 GMT
I've previously suggested that the Superloop should ideally expand to two separate orbits around London, which along with the Overground would provide an extensive network of orbital links. However, if the budget only allows for one circle, I think it should be something along the lines of the following. This would also utilise the Woolwich Ferry to complete the circle for cross-river journeys. Not going to suggest route numbers here, but would suggest the following 5 services: Route A - Woolwich to Croydon, via Eltham, Grove Park, Bromley and West Wickham. Route B - current X26 (with extra stop added at Feltham). Route C - Heathrow Airport to Edgware, via M4 spur, Shepiston Lane, Hayes & Harlington Station, Hayes Grapes and The Parkway to Yeading, then current X140 to Harrow and 186 to Edgware. Route D - Edgware to Edmonton Green, via the 221 to Mill Hill, then Devonshire Road, Finchley Central, North Finchley, Friern Barnet, Arnos Grove, Palmers Green, and the 102 to Edmonton Green. Route E - Edmonton Green to North Woolwich, via Meridian Water, Crooked Billet, Walthamstow Central, Whipps Cross, Green Man Interchange, Redbridge Station, Ilford, Barking and Gallions Reach. Is this not pretty much whats proposed but you have just extended each route slightly? |
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