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Post by DT 11 on May 29, 2022 14:25:29 GMT
No, the 432 is being kept and is being extended to Clapham Common, however I am considering ridding of the 417 due to this. It would not make sense to have 4 Crystal Palace routes all terminating from Clapham Common Spoken as someone with no idea about the routes or area in question. Crystal Palace has three routes to Clapham Common for various reasons - the 417 is the one used for direct end to end journeys because it’s the most direct whilst the others are used to link various places up. The 249 shares a minuscule piece of routing with the 417 at Crown Point but otherwise they all keep out of each other’s way whilst the 432 provides the sufficient capacity for the Tulse Hill & West Norwood corridor alongside the 2 & 415 so I stand by my original comment on thoroughly disliking it. Agreed I have done the 2 & 432 and the Brixton to West Norwood is very busy on both routes. I have done the last bus on the 2 & 432 on a few occasions and both trips are busy so having two overlapping routes is better than just one big trunk route. The 432 as short as it is is very manageable. If it was not for the 415 as well the 2 & 432 would be even more busier. The 2 is also much slower now that the entire route other than Vauxhall Park to Stockwell Road is 20 MPH. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 29, 2022 15:23:07 GMT
To be honest, I'd restructure all routes to be between 1 and 500, with the rest as letters. My list: (to be edited later when I have a few more ideas)
1: Hampstead Heath to Canada Water
2: Crystal Palace to Marylebone (current N2)
3: Penge to Oxford Circus (part of N3)
4: Blackfriars Station to Muswell Hill (via 43/134 from Archway)
5: Romford Market to Canning Town
6: Brent Park Superstores to Aldwych
7: Oxford Circus to Acton, High StreetI take it your removing the 432? If so, I instantly dislike your proposal. The 432 provides valuable assistance along the corridor as well as a reliable link to Palace that doesn’t come all the way from Central London. The 2 even in the 90’s never had through journeys during the week except Sundays with services operating in overlapping sections. Even before the 90s there was an overlap as the OPO 2A was introduced in 1988 from CP to Brixton and the crew 2B became N to Baker Street. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on May 29, 2022 16:13:43 GMT
Should the 388 be rerouted again I think it really would deserve a new number! Never has a route been changed as much as the 388! Could do a 'new' 48 route that takes in part of the current 388, 242 or 78 or whatever ofcourse the plan is. Hard to believe this November will be 3 years since the 388 diverted to LB. 3 years? That could be the longest period so far without a change to that route.  |
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Post by redbus on May 29, 2022 18:26:29 GMT
Sounds quite reasonable assuming the routes are not too long. One concern would be the stand at West Hampstead, it might need buses which are on the shorter side to enable two buses to be accommodated on stand. I think the last buses on the 139 when it terminated there were TEHs. Yes, indeed they were, but do remember that pretty much every journey went back to W, much to the chagrin of the locals on Mill Lane, so it was rare for there to be more than one bus on stand at a time. If W operate whatever route is extended to West Hampstead there won't be an issue as much the same can be done again. |
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Post by abellion on May 29, 2022 18:41:05 GMT
Sounds quite reasonable assuming the routes are not too long. One concern would be the stand at West Hampstead, it might need buses which are on the shorter side to enable two buses to be accommodated on stand. The 28 & 328 are already slogs given they traverse the busy Earls Court one way system and the 28 also has to suffer Fulham Broadway - congestion is pretty heavy on these sections. I’d very much worry about the 28 in particular I already avoid the 28, as soon as it crosses Wandsworth Bridge it is an endless traffic jam until NHG and even without traffic it is just long in general. I can't see an extension to Camden or Hampstead working unless it gets cut to Fulham Broadway with the 414 diverted or 306 extended to Wandsworth (I know it's my profile picture but still!) |
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Post by abellion on May 29, 2022 18:43:50 GMT
No, the 432 is being kept and is being extended to Clapham Common, however I am considering ridding of the 417 due to this. It would not make sense to have 4 Crystal Palace routes all terminating from Clapham Common Spoken as someone with no idea about the routes or area in question. Crystal Palace has three routes to Clapham Common for various reasons - the 417 is the one used for direct end to end journeys because it’s the most direct whilst the others are used to link various places up. The 249 shares a minuscule piece of routing with the 417 at Crown Point but otherwise they all keep out of each other’s way whilst the 432 provides the sufficient capacity for the Tulse Hill & West Norwood corridor alongside the 2 & 415 so I stand by my original comment on thoroughly disliking it. And the 249 is the closest you can get to a direct Tooting Broadway - Norwood/Crystal Palace link which would be greatly useful if it existed |
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 29, 2022 21:19:28 GMT
We could almost be in a situation where the old 28 and 31 have simply swapped norther routings, Chelsea to Golders Green and Wandsworth to Camden Town. Its probably to save confusion with the loss of the White City section which is why the 31 number is likely to go and the 328 remain as it is. We will have to wait and see what is in the consultation, but I would not be shocked if the Kilburn - Golders Green section of the 328 is axed and not replaced. The 328 could be sent to Camden Town and the 28 left as is. Wandsworth - Camden Town or Wandsworth - Golders Green might be considered too long. For those who travel on the 328 to Golders Green, they simply continue on the 328 to Abbey Road / Belsize Road and change to the 139 all at no extra cost with the hopper fare! I am not saying it is a cut I approve of, just that it would not surprise me if TfL did it. The Kilburn to Golders Green link is a really vital one, hope it doesn't get broken as a result of these proposals and perhaps if needed divert the 460 to Kilburn Park in order to retain the link down Shoot-Up-Hill? |
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on May 30, 2022 16:13:59 GMT
We will have to wait and see what is in the consultation, but I would not be shocked if the Kilburn - Golders Green section of the 328 is axed and not replaced. The 328 could be sent to Camden Town and the 28 left as is. Wandsworth - Camden Town or Wandsworth - Golders Green might be considered too long. For those who travel on the 328 to Golders Green, they simply continue on the 328 to Abbey Road / Belsize Road and change to the 139 all at no extra cost with the hopper fare! I am not saying it is a cut I approve of, just that it would not surprise me if TfL did it. The Kilburn to Golders Green link is a really vital one, hope it doesn't get broken as a result of these proposals and perhaps if needed divert the 460 to Kilburn Park in order to retain the link down Shoot-Up-Hill? I do use 406 as my stepping stone from Finchley to Willesden and vice versa, but I'm sure if 260 was extended I could cope. However, 260 is long enough and 460 isn't long enough. Just divert it to go down Shoot-Up-Hill up to Kilburn Park, and then let it follow 226 to Hanover Road then 52 to AC. A visual representation of my route www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1HAHaQczIeq3Cf5SGRXCQaGaLLITzVM0&ll=51.552416877155494%2C-0.2271359513497062&z=14 |
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123ToLondon
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Post by 123ToLondon on Jun 7, 2022 18:05:30 GMT
148 as 12
388 as 48
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Post by abellion on Jun 7, 2022 18:30:15 GMT
The 388 has been an established route for long enough in Hackney that I think it's current number is deserving to stay, and I think if the new 148 keeps the routing via Victoria as opposed to the 12 through Oxford Circus then the 148 number should be used. There's no need to cause extra confusion, London passengers are beyond incompetent and there will probably be people going on this new "12" looking for Piccadilly or assuming that the new 48 will have elements of the old 48. If any renumbering happens it should be 414 --> 14 and 430 --> 74 |
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123ToLondon
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Post by 123ToLondon on Jun 7, 2022 18:39:36 GMT
The 388 has been an established route for long enough in Hackney that I think it's current number is deserving to stay, and I think if the new 148 keeps the routing via Victoria as opposed to the 12 through Oxford Circus then the 148 number should be used. There's no need to cause extra confusion, London passengers are beyond incompetent and there will probably be people going on this new "12" looking for Piccadilly or assuming that the new 48 will have elements of the old 48. If any renumbering happens it should be 414 --> 14 and 430 --> 74 I can't argue, your pretty much right |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 7, 2022 19:20:21 GMT
The 388 has been an established route for long enough in Hackney that I think it's current number is deserving to stay, and I think if the new 148 keeps the routing via Victoria as opposed to the 12 through Oxford Circus then the 148 number should be used. There's no need to cause extra confusion, London passengers are beyond incompetent and there will probably be people going on this new "12" looking for Piccadilly or assuming that the new 48 will have elements of the old 48. If any renumbering happens it should be 414 --> 14 and 430 --> 74 I can't argue, your pretty much right I'd say the 507 could also be the 11 as there is plenty of the old 11 route between Westminster and Fulham Broadway. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 7, 2022 19:27:09 GMT
I can't argue, your pretty much right I'd say the 507 could also be the 11 as there is plenty of the old 11 route between Westminster and Fulham Broadway. I think what will happen is the changes will be roughly implemented as consulted on, but the lower numbers will be reused and TfL spin it that they have listened to the feedback and saved these long standing routes. Think using the high numbers in the consultations is a ploy for wiggle room. |
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Post by route53 on Jun 10, 2022 7:25:41 GMT
I can see them renumbering the 148 to the 12, I’m sure people in Dulwich will understand that the 12 no longer goes to Oxford Street but to Victoria instead.
The 507 becomes the 11, it’s the 24 I fear that could be lost sadly 😔
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 11, 2022 3:33:46 GMT
Route 45 was traditionally South Kensington - Camberwell - King's Cross - Archway, the Archway extension being 1978-85. Now that route 45 is being withdrawn, route 345 South Kensington - Camberwell - Peckham may as well reclaim the number 45 sooner or later.
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