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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 15, 2022 12:08:25 GMT
So you could fully accept inflation rising to satisfy huge pay rises? Bearing in mind that increasing costs to businesses means they either hire less people, through attrition, or they reduce workforces through forced redundancies which only adds more pressure to the state which in turn means further tax rises for those still working in addition to prices rises in household basics, further damaging the economy. Less workers would mean less output or more automation resulting in less quality goods. The reality is that exorbitant pay rises don’t solve inflation and whilst it may sound like a worse case scenario you only have to look back on the last three years to see how something like COVID and the Ukraine war have negatively impacted economies globally. In an ideal world we should get decent pay rises every year but in reality this can’t be done without inflation being resolved first. The problem is we are already at the stage of less workers and less output. We have record vacancies because of companies offering rubbish terms to attract potential employees and employees leaving because existing terms are just as bad. Take the airline sector - all those let go during the pandemic were contacted when the airline desperately needed staff during the recent problems yet most didn't want to return and/or had found better jobs elsewhere because of the conditions. So regardless of inflation, if you don't sort that part out, kiss goodbye to any progress That won’t stop companies in industries like retail or entertainment slowing down or halting recruitment. Honesty ask yourself when the last time your store was fully staffed. Ask a manager and they’ll tell you they are. I visited a friend at a Boots store the other day and there was just him in the entire front half of the flagship store because management don’t want to hire more people. Even my company, which has less than 200 employees globally across ten offices has refused to replace someone who left in March in London. The pandemic simply spread up those who would have left this industries anyway because they were training for other careers or seeking other opportunities. Give it a few years and the whole situation will normalise.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 15, 2022 12:27:28 GMT
The trouble is worse term and conditions in the UK have been abused since the 2008 banking crisis. When inflation was low, look how many were given zero or below inflation pay rises. If when inflation was low the majority had been given over inflation rises, if just a little, I feel businesses would be justified in asking people to take below inflation pay rises. But they have not been fair to their employees during times of low inflation, so can understand the justification of those seeking inflation rate pay rises. The British Business outlook of screw the employee for every penny they can of last 15 years is coming back to bite them in the ass! Yes, it will have an inflationary effect, but most workers do not feel valued these days. Is it any wonder staff retention is a problem at many places, when the only way to achieve a decent pay rise is to change jobs. Any standard rate tax payer, should get a fair pay rise this year. So you could fully accept inflation rising to satisfy huge pay rises? Bearing in mind that increasing costs to businesses means they either hire less people, through attrition, or they reduce workforces through forced redundancies which only adds more pressure to the state which in turn means further tax rises for those still working in addition to prices rises in household basics, further damaging the economy. Less workers would mean less output or more automation resulting in less quality goods. The reality is that exorbitant pay rises don’t solve inflation and whilst it may sound like a worse case scenario you only have to look back on the last three years to see how something like COVID and the Ukraine war have negatively impacted economies globally. In an ideal world we should get decent pay rises every year but in reality this can’t be done without inflation being resolved first. It is not ideal, but the UK is in the position it is in today. Since 1992, the UK has had relatively low levels of inflation, with the exception of the odd blip. Certain sectors are already struggling to retain/recruit staff. When you see what some are offering it is hardly surprising. Your last statement just about sums it up. If we had of had decent pay rises every year over past 15 years, people would probably have an extra approx £1000pa in their pay packets. I know a lot would have got used to spending that, and now be claiming poverty, but would of created wiggle room for a lot more families, and that extra money would not now be affecting inflation. Through businesses lack of foresight, care of employees, those decent pay rises you quite rightly say you should get, but were missed are hitting home. Should someone on £18000, really have to absorb the impact of the cost of living rises without a helpful pay rise, for something which is down to no fault of their own. Should a person be expected to take on debt and give up holidays for a few years? What you are saying is not without merit, but the long term erosion of working conditions in the UK, means for a lot of people a low wage rise is not an option this year. You impose low pay rises, you will lose your staff to someone offering more ... so low pay rises will also mean less staff, meaning those companies have less output and produce lower quality products. Those offering a better deal, will produce better quality work, so should flourish, and the economy benefits from higher taxation on those changing to higher paid jobs. To be honest, given the level of debt, not only the UK has, but the world has post COVID, high inflation would not be the worst thing in the world for government debt, as nothing devalues the value of debt better than inflation. £100k borrowed 5 years ago will not be as much as £100k in ten years time ... higher the rate of inflation, the more the debt devalues. Multiply that by the trillions that is the national debt, and it creates great savings. It is just the managing of all the side effects that is hard.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 15, 2022 12:29:33 GMT
The problem is we are already at the stage of less workers and less output. We have record vacancies because of companies offering rubbish terms to attract potential employees and employees leaving because existing terms are just as bad. Take the airline sector - all those let go during the pandemic were contacted when the airline desperately needed staff during the recent problems yet most didn't want to return and/or had found better jobs elsewhere because of the conditions. So regardless of inflation, if you don't sort that part out, kiss goodbye to any progress That won’t stop companies in industries like retail or entertainment slowing down or halting recruitment. Honesty ask yourself when the last time your store was fully staffed. Ask a manager and they’ll tell you they are. I visited a friend at a Boots store the other day and there was just him in the entire front half of the flagship store because management don’t want to hire more people. Even my company, which has less than 200 employees globally across ten offices has refused to replace someone who left in March in London. The pandemic simply spread up those who would have left this industries anyway because they were training for other careers or seeking other opportunities. Give it a few years and the whole situation will normalise. Noticed more and more self service tills in shops now as they are so much cheaper than paying staff! My local Tesco at Beckton has drastically cut the amount of staffed tills. Even Next let’s you do self service returns in some stores.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 15, 2022 13:00:11 GMT
So you could fully accept inflation rising to satisfy huge pay rises? Bearing in mind that increasing costs to businesses means they either hire less people, through attrition, or they reduce workforces through forced redundancies which only adds more pressure to the state which in turn means further tax rises for those still working in addition to prices rises in household basics, further damaging the economy. Less workers would mean less output or more automation resulting in less quality goods. The reality is that exorbitant pay rises don’t solve inflation and whilst it may sound like a worse case scenario you only have to look back on the last three years to see how something like COVID and the Ukraine war have negatively impacted economies globally. In an ideal world we should get decent pay rises every year but in reality this can’t be done without inflation being resolved first. It is not ideal, but the UK is in the position it is in today. Since 1992, the UK has had relatively low levels of inflation, with the exception of the odd blip. Certain sectors are already struggling to retain/recruit staff. When you see what some are offering it is hardly surprising. Your last statement just about sums it up. If we had of had decent pay rises every year over past 15 years, people would probably have an extra approx £1000pa in their pay packets. I know a lot would have got used to spending that, and now be claiming poverty, but would of created wiggle room for a lot more families, and that extra money would not now be affecting inflation. Through businesses lack of foresight, care of employees, those decent pay rises you quite rightly say you should get, but were missed are hitting home. Should someone on £18000, really have to absorb the impact of the cost of living rises without a helpful pay rise, for something which is down to no fault of their own. Should a person be expected to take on debt and give up holidays for a few years? What you are saying is not without merit, but the long term erosion of working conditions in the UK, means for a lot of people a low wage rise is not an option this year. You impose low pay rises, you will lose your staff to someone offering more ... so low pay rises will also mean less staff, meaning those companies have less output and produce lower quality products. Those offering a better deal, will produce better quality work, so should flourish, and the economy benefits from higher taxation on those changing to higher paid jobs. To be honest, given the level of debt, not only the UK has, but the world has post COVID, high inflation would not be the worst thing in the world for government debt, as nothing devalues the value of debt better than inflation. £100k borrowed 5 years ago will not be as much as £100k in ten years time ... higher the rate of inflation, the more the debt devalues. Multiply that by the trillions that is the national debt, and it creates great savings. It is just the managing of all the side effects that is hard. But it equally isn’t someone on a pre-tax £40k a year, like me, fault either. But the answer is not to impose instant inflation busting pay rises. Look at the pay rise Cadbury agreed to last month. That 17.5% is great on paper but it ultimately will lead to a price increase, both wholesale and retail, and the movement of more jobs from the UK to countries like Poland and Lithuania. That’s great for me though as it means that Cadbury will need more containers from my industry so I’ll probably get another great pay rise. Do you see that somebody is getting screwed here and it isn’t me, Cadbury or the Polish economy. It’s the worker and their union who pushed for a ridiculously high wage increase. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why Cadbury rolled.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 15, 2022 13:20:42 GMT
It is not ideal, but the UK is in the position it is in today. Since 1992, the UK has had relatively low levels of inflation, with the exception of the odd blip. Certain sectors are already struggling to retain/recruit staff. When you see what some are offering it is hardly surprising. Your last statement just about sums it up. If we had of had decent pay rises every year over past 15 years, people would probably have an extra approx £1000pa in their pay packets. I know a lot would have got used to spending that, and now be claiming poverty, but would of created wiggle room for a lot more families, and that extra money would not now be affecting inflation. Through businesses lack of foresight, care of employees, those decent pay rises you quite rightly say you should get, but were missed are hitting home. Should someone on £18000, really have to absorb the impact of the cost of living rises without a helpful pay rise, for something which is down to no fault of their own. Should a person be expected to take on debt and give up holidays for a few years? What you are saying is not without merit, but the long term erosion of working conditions in the UK, means for a lot of people a low wage rise is not an option this year. You impose low pay rises, you will lose your staff to someone offering more ... so low pay rises will also mean less staff, meaning those companies have less output and produce lower quality products. Those offering a better deal, will produce better quality work, so should flourish, and the economy benefits from higher taxation on those changing to higher paid jobs. To be honest, given the level of debt, not only the UK has, but the world has post COVID, high inflation would not be the worst thing in the world for government debt, as nothing devalues the value of debt better than inflation. £100k borrowed 5 years ago will not be as much as £100k in ten years time ... higher the rate of inflation, the more the debt devalues. Multiply that by the trillions that is the national debt, and it creates great savings. It is just the managing of all the side effects that is hard. But it equally isn’t someone on a pre-tax £40k a year, like me, fault either. But the answer is not to impose instant inflation busting pay rises. Look at the pay rise Cadbury agreed to last month. That 17.5% is great on paper but it ultimately will lead to a price increase, both wholesale and retail, and the movement of more jobs from the UK to countries like Poland and Lithuania. That’s great for me though as it means that Cadbury will need more containers from my industry so I’ll probably get another great pay rise. Do you see that somebody is getting screwed here and it isn’t me, Cadbury or the Polish economy. It’s the worker and their union who pushed for a ridiculously high wage increase. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why Cadbury rolled. Believe you me, inflation is global. My local pub is run by Polish people, and they say prices are going up like crazy there as well, assume the same is true for Lithuania but have no knowledge, but know from several other countries inflation is not a UK specific thing. If wages go up to meet these price increases then it is not a problem. Generally wage growth in Eastern European markets, as well as markets such as India, have increased faster than in the UK over past 20 years, meaning that the gap between the UK and those markets is not as wide as it was 20 years ago. Not debating there is still a gap, but it is narrowing. When there is global inflation, you really don't want to be either the one with the highest or lowest inflation figures. Highest, you become uncompetitive, lowest, whilst initially an advantage, the costs of your imports from other countries will rise, so your inflation cycle will be out of cinque with the rest of the world. If you keep an eye on what is happening in the rest of the world, you should be able to manage the situation. If you are saying as someone earning £40k, that everyone earning that amount and over should receive an below inflation pay rise, then I am happy for you, but you have a lot more wriggle room than most. It is the lowest paid that this will affect the hardest so they deserve an inflation matching pay rise, or are you happy to see more of the UK classed as living in poverty? Higher wages will mean higher levels of taxation for the government. **EDIT** for reference the Polish inflation rate for May was 13.9%, Lithuanian, 20.5% in June, UK 9.1% Average wage in Poland is equivalent to £16k, but wage growth grew 13.5% last year, .... average wage doubled since 2010. UK average wage is £32k but has only increased by little over 25% since 2010. So in 2010, you used to be able to employ 3 Polish workers for the price of 1 British worker, in 2022, it is 2 Polish workers for the price of 1 British worker.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 15, 2022 13:31:48 GMT
The problem is we are already at the stage of less workers and less output. We have record vacancies because of companies offering rubbish terms to attract potential employees and employees leaving because existing terms are just as bad. Take the airline sector - all those let go during the pandemic were contacted when the airline desperately needed staff during the recent problems yet most didn't want to return and/or had found better jobs elsewhere because of the conditions. So regardless of inflation, if you don't sort that part out, kiss goodbye to any progress That won’t stop companies in industries like retail or entertainment slowing down or halting recruitment. Honesty ask yourself when the last time your store was fully staffed. Ask a manager and they’ll tell you they are. I visited a friend at a Boots store the other day and there was just him in the entire front half of the flagship store because management don’t want to hire more people. Even my company, which has less than 200 employees globally across ten offices has refused to replace someone who left in March in London. The pandemic simply spread up those who would have left this industries anyway because they were training for other careers or seeking other opportunities. Give it a few years and the whole situation will normalise. In the airline sector, it actually has - several airline operators recently tried to attract staff back they had let go during the pandemic by offering worse terms than they previously were on and then wonder why most said no and took other work instead. We were fully staffed during the early part of the pandemic and even senior managers have admitted they've not been fully staffed since then which is coming on for two years give or take. Most people we've taken on since then have already moved on because the terms that was described to them changed very quickly or management effectively were economic with the truth on certain things
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 23, 2022 8:08:46 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 24, 2022 11:50:13 GMT
It is not ideal, but the UK is in the position it is in today. Since 1992, the UK has had relatively low levels of inflation, with the exception of the odd blip. Certain sectors are already struggling to retain/recruit staff. When you see what some are offering it is hardly surprising. Your last statement just about sums it up. If we had of had decent pay rises every year over past 15 years, people would probably have an extra approx £1000pa in their pay packets. I know a lot would have got used to spending that, and now be claiming poverty, but would of created wiggle room for a lot more families, and that extra money would not now be affecting inflation. Through businesses lack of foresight, care of employees, those decent pay rises you quite rightly say you should get, but were missed are hitting home. Should someone on £18000, really have to absorb the impact of the cost of living rises without a helpful pay rise, for something which is down to no fault of their own. Should a person be expected to take on debt and give up holidays for a few years? What you are saying is not without merit, but the long term erosion of working conditions in the UK, means for a lot of people a low wage rise is not an option this year. You impose low pay rises, you will lose your staff to someone offering more ... so low pay rises will also mean less staff, meaning those companies have less output and produce lower quality products. Those offering a better deal, will produce better quality work, so should flourish, and the economy benefits from higher taxation on those changing to higher paid jobs. To be honest, given the level of debt, not only the UK has, but the world has post COVID, high inflation would not be the worst thing in the world for government debt, as nothing devalues the value of debt better than inflation. £100k borrowed 5 years ago will not be as much as £100k in ten years time ... higher the rate of inflation, the more the debt devalues. Multiply that by the trillions that is the national debt, and it creates great savings. It is just the managing of all the side effects that is hard. But it equally isn’t someone on a pre-tax £40k a year, like me, fault either. But the answer is not to impose instant inflation busting pay rises. Look at the pay rise Cadbury agreed to last month. That 17.5% is great on paper but it ultimately will lead to a price increase, both wholesale and retail, and the movement of more jobs from the UK to countries like Poland and Lithuania. That’s great for me though as it means that Cadbury will need more containers from my industry so I’ll probably get another great pay rise. Do you see that somebody is getting screwed here and it isn’t me, Cadbury or the Polish economy. It’s the worker and their union who pushed for a ridiculously high wage increase. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why Cadbury rolled. That is part of the problem, the Unions's at time in effect run as a business; some of the things they do are mainly at increasing membership. Some of these companies would do like what happened in the 70's and 80's where we saw companies move the business out of the UK after union action and in the end, ultimately all those pushing for pay rises etc lose their jobs and the real winner was the company who then exported products back into the UK cheaper. Look also at the situation over the years where we have had call centres set up in other countries with low wage rates.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 24, 2022 11:57:25 GMT
But it equally isn’t someone on a pre-tax £40k a year, like me, fault either. But the answer is not to impose instant inflation busting pay rises. Look at the pay rise Cadbury agreed to last month. That 17.5% is great on paper but it ultimately will lead to a price increase, both wholesale and retail, and the movement of more jobs from the UK to countries like Poland and Lithuania. That’s great for me though as it means that Cadbury will need more containers from my industry so I’ll probably get another great pay rise. Do you see that somebody is getting screwed here and it isn’t me, Cadbury or the Polish economy. It’s the worker and their union who pushed for a ridiculously high wage increase. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why Cadbury rolled. That is part of the problem, the Unions's at time in effect run as a business; some of the things they do are mainly at increasing membership. Some of these companies would do like what happened in the 70's and 80's where we saw companies move the business out of the UK after union action and in the end, ultimately all those pushing for pay rises etc lose their jobs and the real winner was the company who then exported products back into the UK cheaper. Look also at the situation over the years where we have had call centres set up in other countries with low wage rates. Exactly, freight rates might be at a record high but it will still work out cheaper to increase imports and reduce the UK workforce than pay much higher wages.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 24, 2022 12:06:55 GMT
That is part of the problem, the Unions's at time in effect run as a business; some of the things they do are mainly at increasing membership. Some of these companies would do like what happened in the 70's and 80's where we saw companies move the business out of the UK after union action and in the end, ultimately all those pushing for pay rises etc lose their jobs and the real winner was the company who then exported products back into the UK cheaper. Look also at the situation over the years where we have had call centres set up in other countries with low wage rates. Exactly, freight rates might be at a record high but it will still work out cheaper to increase imports and reduce the UK workforce than pay much higher wages. That would depend on exchange rates though. If the UK devalues the pound, the cost of imports increases whilst the cost of our exports goes down. The Government has multiple tools at its disposal to control the economy. Perhaps the UK should concentrate on what it does well - notably services and research - and promote well-paid employment in those sectors as well as supporting people to move from jobs in sectors which struggle to compete globally. And pay rises for public sector workers that keep track with inflation are not necessarily a bad thing - up to 40% of that money comes back into the Government through increased direct tax and National Insurance contributions, as well as taxes from increased spending. There are also reduced costs when it comes to staff recruitment and retention by paying better salaries.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 27, 2022 23:38:43 GMT
Keir Starmer sacks shadow transport minister who backed rail strikesLabour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked a junior shadow transport minister who joined striking rail workers on a picket line.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62325842Train strikes: Drivers to walk out over pay on 13 AugustTrain drivers at nine rail companies will strike on 13 August in a dispute over pay, the union Aslef has said.www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62325025
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 31, 2022 11:10:42 GMT
Another RMT strike is due on Thursday 18th and Saturday 20th August.
That will mean some strikes on 2 successive Saturdays, 13th and 20th.
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Post by richard on Jul 31, 2022 14:08:29 GMT
Another RMT strike is due on Thursday 18th and Saturday 20th August. That will mean some strikes on 2 successive Saturdays, 13th and 20th. There's also a tube strike on the 19th
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 31, 2022 17:45:57 GMT
That won’t stop companies in industries like retail or entertainment slowing down or halting recruitment. Honesty ask yourself when the last time your store was fully staffed. Ask a manager and they’ll tell you they are. I visited a friend at a Boots store the other day and there was just him in the entire front half of the flagship store because management don’t want to hire more people. Even my company, which has less than 200 employees globally across ten offices has refused to replace someone who left in March in London. The pandemic simply spread up those who would have left this industries anyway because they were training for other careers or seeking other opportunities. Give it a few years and the whole situation will normalise. Noticed more and more self service tills in shops now as they are so much cheaper than paying staff! My local Tesco at Beckton has drastically cut the amount of staffed tills. Even Next let’s you do self service returns in some stores. Aldi in Tottenham got rid of all it's tills bar one, so the excitement of throwing everything at breakneck speed into a box for juice cartons or hastily back into the trolley has gone Now, 15 self service tills occupy the spot with two assistants, one armed with carrier bags (to make sure you buy them and scan them at your till) and another assisting when the tills get addled and need a reset Tesco is also following suit, I guess it frees up more staff. As more shift to online shopping, traditional stores will suffer. Boots is in the middle of being sold off by owner Walgreens, a lot of the stores look down at heel now. Throw in Brexit where the UK scared off most in retail, then the frequent lockdowns which spooked the economy, I can’t see things improving any time soon. Even if there are more tube or rail strikes, the infrastructure cannot cope with heat and expanding / buckling rails
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 31, 2022 18:00:02 GMT
Noticed more and more self service tills in shops now as they are so much cheaper than paying staff! My local Tesco at Beckton has drastically cut the amount of staffed tills. Even Next let’s you do self service returns in some stores. Aldi in Tottenham got rid of all it's tills bar one, so the excitement of throwing everything at breakneck speed into a box for juice cartons or hastily back into the trolley has gone Now, 15 self service tills occupy the spot with two assistants, one armed with carrier bags (to make sure you buy them and scan them at your till) and another assisting when the tills get addled and need a reset Tesco is also following suit, I guess it frees up more staff. As more shift to online shopping, traditional stores will suffer. Boots is in the middle of being sold off by owner Walgreens, a lot of the stores look down at heel now. Throw in Brexit where the UK scared off most in retail, then the frequent lockdowns which spooked the economy, I can’t see things improving any time soon. Even if there are more tube or rail strikes, the infrastructure cannot cope with heat and expanding / buckling rails Walgreens has abandoned the Boots sale for now citing instability in financial markets meaning potential bidders were unable to raise enough capital. I would expect WBA to begin further constrictions in Boots property empire. To be honest it still surprises me Boots still maintains its huge HQ just outside Nottingham, so huge it’s maintained by 3 bus routes.
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