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Post by evergreenadam on Jun 2, 2022 14:50:59 GMT
The Putney area changes I largely agree with thou I think I would have jigged the 14 and 74 and withdrew the 414 and 430 thou I think I would have stayed with the original thoughts and had the 14 from Piccadilly and 74 from Marble Arch to Roehampton and not diverted the 19 and kept the 49 as it is and left East Acton to an increased 272 plus the 7, 220 and 283 offering support. Personally, I thought the only somewhat sensible part was withdrawing the 72 in favour of the 272 extending to Hammersmith & 283 to the northern side of the bridge. It made a lot of sense given the bridge won't be opening anytime soon and if the bridge does open to buses, they'd likely then extend the 283 back to Barnes and say hopper fare via 419 for anyone wanting Barnes Station & Roehampton as every journey matters The extension of the 272 to Hammersmith and associated frequency increase is very sensible. The extension of the 283 to Hammersmith Bridge is fine. But the 49 is not a good replacement for the 72, it serves different stops in Shepherds Bush town centre to the 272. Access to Hammersmith Hospital from the rest of H&F will be on less frequent (272, particularly in the evenings) or more roundabout (283) routes or involve a change of buses. Am not convinced the residents of East Acton want a direct link to Kensington High Street, but access to the Lidl in the W12 Centre and Shepherds Bush Overground would be improved with a shorter walk to the northbound bus stop. My main objection is to the split of the 49 across South Kensington meaning a change of buses for short journeys from Chelsea and Royal Brompton Hospital to Kensington High Street. I would have withdrawn the 345 between Battersea Latchmere and South Kensington instead. I think it was inevitable that capacity over the 9, 23, 27 corridor would be reduced, the rerouting of the 23 was useless to most passengers when the Oxford Street link provided by the 10 was lost and too many 23s were near empty. The 9 probably could do with a frequency increase if it were to to be the sole route along Kensington Road but they won’t be drawn on Central London frequencies yet, except to guarantee a 12 minute minimum frequency for some day routes.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 2, 2022 15:07:30 GMT
Personally, I thought the only somewhat sensible part was withdrawing the 72 in favour of the 272 extending to Hammersmith & 283 to the northern side of the bridge. It made a lot of sense given the bridge won't be opening anytime soon and if the bridge does open to buses, they'd likely then extend the 283 back to Barnes and say hopper fare via 419 for anyone wanting Barnes Station & Roehampton as every journey matters The extension of the 272 to Hammersmith and associated frequency increase is very sensible. The extension of the 283 to Hammersmith Bridge is fine. But the 49 is not a good replacement for the 72, it serves different stops in Shepherds Bush town centre to the 272. Access to Hammersmith Hospital from the rest of H&F will be on less frequent (272, particularly in the evenings) or more roundabout (283) routes or involve a change of buses. Am not convinced the residents of East Acton want a direct link to Kensington High Street, but access to the Lidl in the W12 Centre and Shepherds Bush Overground would be improved with a shorter walk to the northbound bus stop. My main objection is to the split of the 49 across South Kensington meaning a change of buses for short journeys from Chelsea and Royal Brompton Hospital to Kensington High Street. I would have withdrawn the 345 between Battersea Latchmere and South Kensington instead. I think it was inevitable that capacity over the 9, 23, 27 corridor would be reduced, the rerouting of the 23 was useless to most passengers when the Oxford Street link provided by the 10 was lost and too many 23s were near empty. The 9 probably could do with a frequency increase if it were to to be the sole route along Kensington Road but they won’t be drawn on Central London frequencies yet, except to guarantee a 12 minute minimum frequency for some day routes. I think the 49 extension is probably for operational convenience as much as anything, with it being curtailed at South Kensington it would have been a very short route from there to Shepherds Bush/White City.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Jun 2, 2022 18:12:39 GMT
Camden to Wandsworth, would be slightly long. The 302 is a bus that can afford a few more miles on it though. But I think when OOC will be finished it will be removed from KR and extended there. Maybe a reroute of the 187 between Elgin Ave and KR. Those plans to extend route 302 to Old Oak Common have been scrapped and were replaced with future changes to route 226 which invloves splitting the route into two with a Golders Green-Old Oak Common route giving links to Cricklewood and Willesden and a Ealing Broadway-Neasden route. These won't happen until the 2030s if taken forward. Would you know that routing perhaps, is that a new development paper. And what about the 7 extension to Park Royal that development paper proposed?
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Jun 2, 2022 18:15:12 GMT
I feel like the West London Bus Changes are actually very good. I wonder if it is a positive consultation when will it happen? I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you there. First, the 9 will not cope without any full support from Hammersmith east of Kensington High Street. Also the 113 will most likely be unworkable and put even more pressure on the poor old 13. The 148 will also just get even more unreliable. That 148 and 113 change is madness, those are some super routes.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Jun 2, 2022 18:22:02 GMT
Those plans to extend route 302 to Old Oak Common have been scrapped and were replaced with future changes to route 226 which invloves splitting the route into two with a Golders Green-Old Oak Common route giving links to Cricklewood and Willesden and a Ealing Broadway-Neasden route. These won't happen until the 2030s if taken forward. Would you know that routing perhaps, is that a new development paper. And what about the 7 extension to Park Royal that development paper proposed? www.google.com/url?q=https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/opdc_bus_strategy_update_2021.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwizupmYsI_4AhXKh1wKHS4uDUIQFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw1tKGZ_13g5nQTQiOIucsDWThe 7 idea has been replaced with a new route between Hanger Lane and Old Oak Common, the 7 would instead be extended to OOC. The link should take you to Google and should be at the top as I'm using my tablet and not the computer and I don't want to end up downloading the PDF as then I will have to go on my laptop and send you the direct link. It's an updated study.
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Post by CircleLineofLife on Jun 2, 2022 18:36:55 GMT
I just scanned it. They have not mentioned Westway Circus as well. As RBKC want a station there, but TfL do not want a station and rather improve existing links to Ladbroke Grove. I think harlesden Rd would be over bused with, though. So i think they should at least make one of the routes serve All souls Ave. Lol GG would lose all daytime links to Ealing Bdy as well. Now that the 83 and 226 is gone
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Jun 2, 2022 19:07:22 GMT
I just scanned it. They have not mentioned Westway Circus as well. As RBKC want a station there, but TfL do not want a station and rather improve existing links to Ladbroke Grove. I think harlesden Rd would be over bused with, though. So i think they should at least make one of the routes serve All souls Ave. Lol GG would lose all daytime links to Ealing Bdy as well. Now that the 83 and 226 is gone There just ideas not proposals, so TFL can change them again and like I said before they wouldn't happen until the 2030s.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 2, 2022 19:31:10 GMT
I just scanned it. They have not mentioned Westway Circus as well. As RBKC want a station there, but TfL do not want a station and rather improve existing links to Ladbroke Grove. I think harlesden Rd would be over bused with, though. So i think they should at least make one of the routes serve All souls Ave. Lol GG would lose all daytime links to Ealing Bdy as well. Now that the 83 and 226 is gone A 302 extension down All Souls Avenue would surely be a good idea? (Would also solve the NIMBY problem on Chamberlayne Road over the Kensal Rise stand!)
I don't think I ever used the 83 for the 20 years prior to its cutback for any "serious" journey to Ealing Broadway, it took way too long! Especially if the A406 went to pot. The 226 is another route I've never really done if say needing to go to Ealing Broadway because it has quite indirect sections of route (e.g Dollis Hill, Hanger Lane) and if I were to attempt a journey by public transport it would be using the rail network or a 112 then a 13/102/460 to GG from Henlys Corner or a 102/210 to GG from Brent Cross.
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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 3, 2022 7:39:35 GMT
Regarding the 31, my solution is to extend the 28 to Camden Town. It's not ideal but its more workable than the 113. Then maybe extend the 302 to Harrow Road, Prince of Wales to replace the 28. Camden to Wandsworth, would be slightly long. The 302 is a bus that can afford a few more miles on it though. But I think when OOC will be finished it will be removed from KR and extended there. Maybe a reroute of the 187 between Elgin Ave and KR. How about Wandsworth to Swiss Cottage? Only around 8 and a half miles according to Google Maps. The 189 idea doesn't actually seem too bad and will open up a few new links. As long as the 28 and 189 would have a common section I think that's definitely workable
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Post by vjaska on Jun 3, 2022 11:42:42 GMT
Camden to Wandsworth, would be slightly long. The 302 is a bus that can afford a few more miles on it though. But I think when OOC will be finished it will be removed from KR and extended there. Maybe a reroute of the 187 between Elgin Ave and KR. How about Wandsworth to Swiss Cottage? Only around 8 and a half miles according to Google Maps. The 189 idea doesn't actually seem too bad and will open up a few new links. As long as the 28 and 189 would have a common section I think that's definitely workable Miles doesn’t matter, take a look at the 11 for instance where I believe it’s around 7 miles long yet takes a lifetime to get from one end to the other. Wandsworth routes currently go as far north as Kensal Rise & Willesden Junction which personally I think is far enough hence why I think the extended 27 from nearby Clapham Junction is going to be a pain to operate
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Post by abellion on Jun 3, 2022 15:15:22 GMT
Camden to Wandsworth, would be slightly long. The 302 is a bus that can afford a few more miles on it though. But I think when OOC will be finished it will be removed from KR and extended there. Maybe a reroute of the 187 between Elgin Ave and KR. How about Wandsworth to Swiss Cottage? Only around 8 and a half miles according to Google Maps. The 189 idea doesn't actually seem too bad and will open up a few new links. As long as the 28 and 189 would have a common section I think that's definitely workable 8 miles of traffic!
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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 3, 2022 16:02:30 GMT
How about Wandsworth to Swiss Cottage? Only around 8 and a half miles according to Google Maps. The 189 idea doesn't actually seem too bad and will open up a few new links. As long as the 28 and 189 would have a common section I think that's definitely workable Miles doesn’t matter, take a look at the 11 for instance where I believe it’s around 7 miles long yet takes a lifetime to get from one end to the other. Wandsworth routes currently go as far north as Kensal Rise & Willesden Junction which personally I think is far enough hence why I think the extended 27 from nearby Clapham Junction is going to be a pain to operate I referenced miles in comparison to the 113 proposal, which was over 5 miles longer than my 28 proposal. Like I said, none of this is ideal but it’s more workable than the 113 plan.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 4, 2022 2:44:46 GMT
The P12 isn’t going anywhere. That doesn't mean it's correct to not replace the 78 with something Provided it was not route 37 or 197
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 4, 2022 2:49:43 GMT
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you there. First, the 9 will not cope without any full support from Hammersmith east of Kensington High Street. Also the 113 will most likely be unworkable and put even more pressure on the poor old 13. The 148 will also just get even more unreliable. The Putney area changes I largely agree with thou I think I would have jigged the 14 and 74 and withdrew the 414 and 430 thou I think I would have stayed with the original thoughts and had the 14 from Piccadilly and 74 from Marble Arch to Roehampton and not diverted the 19 and kept the 49 as it is and left East Acton to an increased 272 plus the 7, 220 and 283 offering support. I think they will let current routes 414 & 430 reclaim numbers 14 & 74 in the end respectively. In other news, route 6 returns to Oxford Circus and route 23 returns to Aldwych. Many of us (myself not included) talked down the current route 23.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 4, 2022 2:52:22 GMT
The extension of the 272 to Hammersmith and associated frequency increase is very sensible. The extension of the 283 to Hammersmith Bridge is fine. But the 49 is not a good replacement for the 72, it serves different stops in Shepherds Bush town centre to the 272. Access to Hammersmith Hospital from the rest of H&F will be on less frequent (272, particularly in the evenings) or more roundabout (283) routes or involve a change of buses. Am not convinced the residents of East Acton want a direct link to Kensington High Street, but access to the Lidl in the W12 Centre and Shepherds Bush Overground would be improved with a shorter walk to the northbound bus stop. My main objection is to the split of the 49 across South Kensington meaning a change of buses for short journeys from Chelsea and Royal Brompton Hospital to Kensington High Street. I would have withdrawn the 345 between Battersea Latchmere and South Kensington instead. I think it was inevitable that capacity over the 9, 23, 27 corridor would be reduced, the rerouting of the 23 was useless to most passengers when the Oxford Street link provided by the 10 was lost and too many 23s were near empty. The 9 probably could do with a frequency increase if it were to to be the sole route along Kensington Road but they won’t be drawn on Central London frequencies yet, except to guarantee a 12 minute minimum frequency for some day routes. I think the 49 extension is probably for operational convenience as much as anything, with it being curtailed at South Kensington it would have been a very short route from there to Shepherds Bush/White City. Route 49 used to have a Sunday extension from Shepherd's Bush to Harlesden via East Acton (currently covered by route 260) until 1978. Routes 49 & 345 do have different routings from South Kensington to King's Road. I cannot tell whether route 49 is being replaced on that section.
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