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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2024 11:51:46 GMT
The extremities of the Overground would love to get 6tph during the peak when on a normal timetable! Not a lot of sympathy here! This is exactly it why does Epping or Debden need 6 trains an hour outside peaks 2 trains a hour would be fine , not ideal but it's not an ideal situation. If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO
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Post by WH241 on Feb 17, 2024 12:11:51 GMT
This is exactly it why does Epping or Debden need 6 trains an hour outside peaks 2 trains a hour would be fine , not ideal but it's not an ideal situation. If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO Were exactly would this disappear elsewhere to? Not like the bus services are exactly great in those parts! I agree with joefrombow that a lower frequency would be fine on those sections.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 17, 2024 12:26:01 GMT
If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO Were exactly would this disappear elsewhere to? Not like the bus services are exactly great in those parts! I agree with joefrombow that a lower frequency would be fine on those sections.
You would get some people jumping into their cars, and others not making the journey at all. I would not drop Epping below 4tph off-peak and 6tph peak. And remember this is only temporary due to a shortage of serviceable rolling stock.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Feb 17, 2024 12:49:42 GMT
We could see the night tube freqs thou of the extremities at times. 21tph through the core WhiteCity-Leytonstone Mon-Thu. Night Tube and weekends unchanged 0700-2300 Mon-Thu West Ruislip-North Acton 6¼-7mins Ealing Broadway-North Acton 9-11mins North Acton-White City 3-5½mins White City-Leytonstone 2¾–3mins Leytonstone-Hainault 3¼-5¾mins Leytonstone-Woodford 6-8mins Woodford-Epping 6-8mins Woodford-Hainault 20mins Normal provision for 60 train service but contingency for 58, 56, 53 train availability Not too too bad then. Evening out the gaps should hopefully avoid bunching and further overcrowding -- a vicious cycle.
Would you happen to know what the 53 train contingency service pattern looks like?
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Post by joefrombow on Feb 17, 2024 12:56:17 GMT
This is exactly it why does Epping or Debden need 6 trains an hour outside peaks 2 trains a hour would be fine , not ideal but it's not an ideal situation. If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO It's more a case of the trains are quite frankly "screwed" (beginning with a F) and them carrying fresh air in the day on those outer sections mainly is pointlessly screwing them up more , I just think 6+ trains a hour is not needed past Loughton outside peaks .
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 17, 2024 13:27:22 GMT
Would you happen to know what the 53 train contingency service pattern looks like? It will cancel 11 of the White City-Hainault via Newbury Park services
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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2024 13:48:25 GMT
If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO It's more a case of the trains are quite frankly "screwed" (beginning with a F) and them carrying fresh air in the day on those outer sections mainly is pointlessly screwing them up more , I just think 6+ trains a hour is not needed past Loughton outside peaks . I’ve seen trains busy during the peaks at least to Debden on regular occasions. Regardless, a 2bph is not attractive either and would lead to increased car usage among other alternatives
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Post by WH241 on Feb 17, 2024 14:00:17 GMT
It's more a case of the trains are quite frankly "screwed" (beginning with a F) and them carrying fresh air in the day on those outer sections mainly is pointlessly screwing them up more , I just think 6+ trains a hour is not needed past Loughton outside peaks . I’ve seen trains busy during the peaks at least to Debden on regular occasions. Regardless, a 2bph is not attractive either and would lead to increased car usage among other alternatives So tell me what should happen then? There is simply not enough trains. You are talking like this is a permanent arrangement when it’s not. Train empty out after Woodford and regardless if you have seen busy trains the majority will carry fresh air outside of the peaks.
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Post by Green Kitten on Feb 17, 2024 19:36:16 GMT
Of course DStock posted shared all the info barely after I’d finished it !!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
9tph West Ruislip to Epping 6tph Ealing Broadway to Hainault via NP 6tph white City to Hainault via NP 3tph Woodford to Hainault
21tph thru the centre uses 60 trains.
All services are self contained, white city to hainault are first on the chopping block.
Generally on average number of trains that run is in the low 50s so will be the odd gaps here and there.
Once situation improves there are three optional trains in each direction in the morning and evening peak that take the peaks up to 24tph during the busiest period, but that’s whether they have the trains…
Timetable is Mon-Thu only, Friday-Sunday still being written
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 17, 2024 19:43:32 GMT
It's more a case of the trains are quite frankly "screwed" (beginning with a F) and them carrying fresh air in the day on those outer sections mainly is pointlessly screwing them up more , I just think 6+ trains a hour is not needed past Loughton outside peaks . I’ve seen trains busy during the peaks at least to Debden on regular occasions. Regardless, a 2bph is not attractive either and would lead to increased car usage among other alternatives I think in this case it's important to also match supply to demand with the available stock. It's not sensible to give Epping a completely through service when the relative demand to the available stock is at an imbalance. Seeing the crowds at stations, especially in Central London at Central Line stations is ridiculous now, the other day at Mile End the platform was a complete blockage and a train came in and people tried to pile on before people could even get off as the train behind was 13 minutes away. Really a train going all the way to Epping could have been cut short to Leytonstone to plug the gap as no matter how busy that Epping branch would get it's not going to compare to what's going on with the inner parts of the service. I think anyone ditching the tube for the car is a sacrifice that has to be made now, and they'll all probably return when (if) the service recovers.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2024 19:46:43 GMT
I’ve seen trains busy during the peaks at least to Debden on regular occasions. Regardless, a 2bph is not attractive either and would lead to increased car usage among other alternatives I think in this case it's important to also match supply to demand with the available stock. It's not sensible to give Epping a completely through service when the relative demand to the available stock is at an imbalance. Seeing the crowds at stations, especially in Central London at Central Line stations is ridiculous now, the other day at Mile End the platform was a complete blockage and a train came in and people tried to pile on before people could even get off as the train behind was 13 minutes away. Really a train going all the way to Epping could have been cut short to Leytonstone to plug the gap as no matter how busy that Epping branch would get it's not going to compare to what's going on with the inner parts of the service. I think anyone ditching the tube for the car is a sacrifice that has to be made now, and they'll all probably return when (if) the service recovers. But there isn't a need to drop it that low - the timetable that Dstock7080 posted is sufficient for the number of available trains and as his post mentions, there are contingencies for other amounts of trains should those situations arise.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 17, 2024 20:45:19 GMT
I think in this case it's important to also match supply to demand with the available stock. It's not sensible to give Epping a completely through service when the relative demand to the available stock is at an imbalance. Seeing the crowds at stations, especially in Central London at Central Line stations is ridiculous now, the other day at Mile End the platform was a complete blockage and a train came in and people tried to pile on before people could even get off as the train behind was 13 minutes away. Really a train going all the way to Epping could have been cut short to Leytonstone to plug the gap as no matter how busy that Epping branch would get it's not going to compare to what's going on with the inner parts of the service. I think anyone ditching the tube for the car is a sacrifice that has to be made now, and they'll all probably return when (if) the service recovers. But there isn't a need to drop it that low - the timetable that Dstock7080 posted is sufficient for the number of available trains and as his post mentions, there are contingencies for other amounts of trains should those situations arise. But the amount of trains available varies so much by day! You are never going to be able to please everyone and as others have said it makes much more sense to reduce the service on the outer sections. This is far from a ideal situation and is getting worse. If some passengers go elsewhere then so be it. TfL can't be expected to provide this super service at the threat that its passengers might go elsewhere. I see similar mentioned in other posts when bus frequencies are cut.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 17, 2024 22:39:33 GMT
If it dropped to 2tph, watch the footfall disappear elsewhere - don’t really get this “my service is 6tph so I’m not going to be sympathetic to someone else just because they have a higher frequency service” point of view, it sounds rather selfish and childish IMO Were exactly would this disappear elsewhere to? Not like the bus services are exactly great in those parts! I agree with joefrombow that a lower frequency would be fine on those sections.
They would take an uber to Chingford or Brentwood for National Rail services
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Post by WH241 on Feb 17, 2024 23:11:14 GMT
Were exactly would this disappear elsewhere to? Not like the bus services are exactly great in those parts! I agree with joefrombow that a lower frequency would be fine on those sections.
They would take an uber to Chingford or Brentwood for National Rail services Yes some would but not everyone. Some would get used to revised timetables and adjust accordingly. The Central situation is not normal and it’s not realistic to try and provide a full service to all destinations.
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Post by joefrombow on Feb 18, 2024 0:11:14 GMT
Were exactly would this disappear elsewhere to? Not like the bus services are exactly great in those parts! I agree with joefrombow that a lower frequency would be fine on those sections. They would take an uber to Chingford or Brentwood for National Rail services Or the complementary rail replacement bus that runs to Chingford from Epping I believe but isnt advertised anywhere online on tfl website or the extras running on the 20 and I think the 150 aswell but literally zero online about it , another tfl failure spending money to run a complementary service but not telling anyone about it online .
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