|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Sept 19, 2024 21:15:09 GMT
I didn’t say I don’t agree with paying more in the public sector but at what point are we overtaxed and under served by our money. We already have one of the highest tax burdens in modern history and it is looking increasingly likely that burden will increase again after the Autumn budget. It’s delusional to think taxing us out of the situation will work. If the papers are to be believed many wealthy are already planning exodus’s before Christmas. My point was is austerity is not gone and our belts are all going to tighten. I’m not saying that taxes should be hiked up any further. The tax burden is already high enough. I’m making the case for increasing the tax base through increased business profits (more money raised through corporation tax) and increased employment (more wages to collect tax from). Or more generally, by increasing GDP the government tax take will increase. Growth is the only way out. Increasing taxes on businesses generally doesn’t create jobs, if anything it makes businesses more cautious and natural attrition begins shrinking the job market. If anything the government needs to cut some business rates to encourage spending in the job sector. It can also negatively affect prices leading to reduced spending by middle earners and wealthy. The government needs to look at things like internet taxes, increasing taxes on flights, increased wealth taxes like inheritance or death taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, perhaps even creative land or air taxes on buildings over a certain height. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Sept 19, 2024 21:24:07 GMT
The flaw in that argument is you tax companies more, they will (save costs) reduce the workforce resulting in less wages to tax Isn't he saying, by growing the uk economy, there would be more profit to tax from and more income to tax from (at the same rates as now) A crucial step the government can do for growth is making sure more public sector contracts such as train procurement etc involve the UK market and businesses rather having them built in the likes of Switzerland, Italy etc and then shipped in. You only have to look at the recent Alstom situation to see that is only a temporary measure. The government is spending £370m on new trains to stop gap the closure but it will still happen in the near future. If the government has to provide specific tax cuts and subsidies to encourage a company to remain here to support a minimal amount of employees then it isn’t creating growth. |
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 19, 2024 23:35:58 GMT
I’m not saying that taxes should be hiked up any further. The tax burden is already high enough. I’m making the case for increasing the tax base through increased business profits (more money raised through corporation tax) and increased employment (more wages to collect tax from). Or more generally, by increasing GDP the government tax take will increase. Growth is the only way out. Increasing taxes on businesses generally doesn’t create jobs, if anything it makes businesses more cautious and natural attrition begins shrinking the job market. If anything the government needs to cut some business rates to encourage spending in the job sector. It can also negatively affect prices leading to reduced spending by middle earners and wealthy. The government needs to look at things like internet taxes, increasing taxes on flights, increased wealth taxes like inheritance or death taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, perhaps even creative land or air taxes on buildings over a certain height. This is going over your head, I dunno how to make it simpler for you to understand. You’re talking about tax rates, I’m talking about tax base. They are different. This is an American site, but it explains the difference really nicely. Please take a moment to read: www.investopedia.com/terms/t/taxbase.asp#:~:text=A%20tax%20base%20is%20the,taxing%20authority%2C%20usually%20a%20government. How can you talk about the government needing to create new taxes whilst acknowledging we already have too high a tax burden? It makes no sense at all. Inventing new taxes can increase the tax base, but the UK already taxes anything that moves. The tax burden needs to be lower not higher. Tax wealth…on top of income and inheritance tax? No thank you. Workers should keep more of their money. That increased money when spent then flows into businesses creating increased profits which then generates increased revenue from corporation tax. We should be taxed on our consumption of goods and services. Wealth should be taxed, but only with a blanket reduction in income tax across all tax brackets. I would like to see corporation tax slashed with a pathway to hit the OECD minimum of 15%. Lower corporation tax alone will not suffice. Corporation tax decreased from 30% to 19% under the previous Tory government. But growth was not unlocked because it was not backed by coherent policy, and political decision-making was highly volatile. It was impossible for business to plan and invest when prime ministers and policies were changing like the wind. And the whole Brexit fiasco did not help either. This comes back full circle to my original post and gripe about the media having a destabilising effect on government and policy. |
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 19, 2024 23:49:47 GMT
The flaw in that argument is you tax companies more, they will (save costs) reduce the workforce resulting in less wages to tax Isn't he saying, by growing the uk economy, there would be more profit to tax from and more income to tax from (at the same rates as now) A crucial step the government can do for growth is making sure more public sector contracts such as train procurement etc involve the UK market and businesses rather having them built in the likes of Switzerland, Italy etc and then shipped in. 100%. You understand what I‘m saying and you give a great example of how the UK shoots itself in the foot with procurement of infrastructure projects. Now we are out of the EU we don’t need to open this up to the market. I think the UK should buy British wherever possible. Support our own business to grow, be profitable, generate jobs and build their experience generating even more growth. |
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 20, 2024 8:06:08 GMT
Isn't he saying, by growing the uk economy, there would be more profit to tax from and more income to tax from (at the same rates as now) A crucial step the government can do for growth is making sure more public sector contracts such as train procurement etc involve the UK market and businesses rather having them built in the likes of Switzerland, Italy etc and then shipped in. 100%. You understand what I‘m saying and you give a great example of how the UK shoots itself in the foot with procurement of infrastructure projects. Now we are out of the EU we don’t need to open this up to the market. I think the UK should buy British wherever possible. Support our own business to grow, be profitable, generate jobs and build their experience generating even more growth. Issue is whenever it becomes a catch 22. In the healthcare sector anyway if you buy British you're better off just guessing blood results as you'll end up being more accurate than the machine, this then leads to a decrease in quality of care provided. Buying British sounds good on paper, but isn't always the case when you have to pay much higher wages for what very well could be an inferior product. We can even look closer to home with the BYD BD11 procurement. That saving realistically is going to show us some level of benefit. ADL is making redundancies due to Chinese and Egyptian manufacturing being cheaper, but the question is really why these guys are so expensive. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 20, 2024 8:29:59 GMT
So much tribal drivel. Honestly, look at the state of the country. Forget all this tit-for-tat nonsense. The absolute state of the UK right now. It’s embarrassing.The Tories had 14 years, which was a decent enough run to implement their strategy for the UK. The country is now in a worse state in many aspects. Labour will now implement fixes to the problems. The focus should be on ensuring the fixes do not inflict medium-long term damage and that the government are doing things today to make us successful tomorrow. This did not happen under the last government where the press was talking about Eton and pig heads etc whilst austerity was being implemented and locked in. Brexit has given the UK a massive opportunity to win or fail. To win, we need to develop infrastructure and critical thinking skills to fill the gaps left behind by our reliance on the EU. But the political media would rather have you all focused on Eastenders-like stories than thinking about what will actually make a difference to the future of our children. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch. Yeah yeah, usual Labour nonsense about 14 years. End of the day the country was doing well until covid took place, then it was a downward spiral. We could say the same of 13 years of crap from 1997-2010 and blame Labour for the war in Iraq and the way the credit crunch led to the recession then tarnish all their years in government for a small thing. What many of you fail to mention that many of the countries around the world are in a state post covid and now even worst with wars in Ukraine and Palestine. Funny the same leftists were lapping up all these "Eastenders-like stories" when it was Conservative in power. Now it is on the other hand, they don't like to face the reality. |
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 20, 2024 10:00:19 GMT
So much tribal drivel. Honestly, look at the state of the country. Forget all this tit-for-tat nonsense. The absolute state of the UK right now. It’s embarrassing.The Tories had 14 years, which was a decent enough run to implement their strategy for the UK. The country is now in a worse state in many aspects. Labour will now implement fixes to the problems. The focus should be on ensuring the fixes do not inflict medium-long term damage and that the government are doing things today to make us successful tomorrow. This did not happen under the last government where the press was talking about Eton and pig heads etc whilst austerity was being implemented and locked in. Brexit has given the UK a massive opportunity to win or fail. To win, we need to develop infrastructure and critical thinking skills to fill the gaps left behind by our reliance on the EU. But the political media would rather have you all focused on Eastenders-like stories than thinking about what will actually make a difference to the future of our children. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch. Yeah yeah, usual Labour nonsense about 14 years. End of the day the country was doing well until covid took place, then it was a downward spiral. We could say the same of 13 years of crap from 1997-2010 and blame Labour for the war in Iraq and the way the credit crunch led to the recession then tarnish all their years in government for a small thing. What many of you fail to mention that many of the countries around the world are in a state post covid and now even worst with wars in Ukraine and Palestine. Funny the same leftists were lapping up all these "Eastenders-like stories" when it was Conservative in power. Now it is on the other hand, they don't like to face the reality. The UK didn't collapse due to Covid however, it collapsed due to ineptitude governing. The actual problems in the UK stemmed from one man supporting a predator, then having a prime minister that didn't know what she was doing, then having a party not knowing how to proceed from that. The problems in the UK are a lot of the previous administration's own making. |
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 20, 2024 10:03:37 GMT
Yeah yeah, usual Labour nonsense about 14 years. End of the day the country was doing well until covid took place, then it was a downward spiral. We could say the same of 13 years of crap from 1997-2010 and blame Labour for the war in Iraq and the way the credit crunch led to the recession then tarnish all their years in government for a small thing. What many of you fail to mention that many of the countries around the world are in a state post covid and now even worst with wars in Ukraine and Palestine. Funny the same leftists were lapping up all these "Eastenders-like stories" when it was Conservative in power. Now it is on the other hand, they don't like to face the reality. The UK didn't collapse due to Covid however, it collapsed due to ineptitude governing. The actual problems in the UK stemmed from one man supporting a predator, then having a prime minister that didn't know what she was doing, then having a party not knowing how to proceed from that. The problems in the UK are a lot of the previous administration's own making. Basically the whole western world collapsed due to COVID whether run by left or right wing governments. I never realised what a powerful country the UK is. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Sept 20, 2024 10:05:44 GMT
So much tribal drivel. Honestly, look at the state of the country. Forget all this tit-for-tat nonsense. The absolute state of the UK right now. It’s embarrassing.The Tories had 14 years, which was a decent enough run to implement their strategy for the UK. The country is now in a worse state in many aspects. Labour will now implement fixes to the problems. The focus should be on ensuring the fixes do not inflict medium-long term damage and that the government are doing things today to make us successful tomorrow. This did not happen under the last government where the press was talking about Eton and pig heads etc whilst austerity was being implemented and locked in. Brexit has given the UK a massive opportunity to win or fail. To win, we need to develop infrastructure and critical thinking skills to fill the gaps left behind by our reliance on the EU. But the political media would rather have you all focused on Eastenders-like stories than thinking about what will actually make a difference to the future of our children. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch. Yeah yeah, usual Labour nonsense about 14 years. End of the day the country was doing well until covid took place, then it was a downward spiral. We could say the same of 13 years of crap from 1997-2010 and blame Labour for the war in Iraq and the way the credit crunch led to the recession then tarnish all their years in government for a small thing. What many of you fail to mention that many of the countries around the world are in a state post covid and now even worst with wars in Ukraine and Palestine. Funny the same leftists were lapping up all these "Eastenders-like stories" when it was Conservative in power. Now it is on the other hand, they don't like to face the reality. Exactly and Kier Starmer is getting a dose of it now, questions are being asked about the CPS failure to prosecute Mohamed Al Fayed on his watch as well as previous questions about the failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile. |
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 20, 2024 10:06:04 GMT
The UK didn't collapse due to Covid however, it collapsed due to ineptitude governing. The actual problems in the UK stemmed from one man supporting a predator, then having a prime minister that didn't know what she was doing, then having a party not knowing how to proceed from that. The problems in the UK are a lot of the previous administration's own making. Basically the whole western world collapsed due to COVID whether run by left or right wing governments. I never realised what a powerful country the UK is. So are you saying that Liz Truss had no bearing on what happened? |
|
|
|
Post by allentc on Sept 20, 2024 10:50:39 GMT
I think the UK should buy British wherever possible. Support our own business to grow, be profitable, generate jobs and build their experience generating even more growth. Indeed. Am I right in thinking there is no such "Buy British" rule with regards to ZEBRA funding? There should be some stipulation that a significant % of componentry, manufacturing or final finishing is done in the UK to support UK jobs. It would be rather jarring if ZEBRA funding was used to buy 100% sourced and built Chinese buses whilst the likes of ADL are laying off jobs. |
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 20, 2024 11:30:47 GMT
Basically the whole western world collapsed due to COVID whether run by left or right wing governments. I never realised what a powerful country the UK is. So are you saying that Liz Truss had no bearing on what happened? I am saying Liz Truss had no effect on the whole of western world collapsing over COVID. Additionally I am yet to be convinced Starmer knows what he is doing! This is reflected by the UK Consumer Confidence indicator that has dropped 8 point in the last month, lower than the last few months of the last government, and those days were pretty bleak. |
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 20, 2024 11:56:44 GMT
So are you saying that Liz Truss had no bearing on what happened? I am saying Liz Truss had no effect on the whole of western world collapsing over COVID. Additionally I am yet to be convinced Starmer knows what he is doing! However the UK market crash was not cause by Covid, it was caused by Liz Truss. |
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Sept 20, 2024 12:04:41 GMT
I am saying Liz Truss had no effect on the whole of western world collapsing over COVID. Additionally I am yet to be convinced Starmer knows what he is doing! However the UK market crash was not cause by Covid, it was caused by Liz Truss. Don't disagree her time was disastrous, but she had less time than Kier Starmer and people say he has not had enough time. But she had the same philosophy as Starmer that you need to grow the UK economy, maybe she should have taken more time to way up the options, but all we have heard from Starmer is bluster with seemingly no idea how to achieve growth. What has he done so far to support UK growth, other than say he is planning to tax those that are likely to drive UK growth more, which is likely to do the opposite. It is really like he does not have a clue what to do. I would like to hear a clear 2/3 year plan and how we are going to get there. |
|
|
|
Post by allentc on Sept 20, 2024 12:36:47 GMT
What has he done so far to support UK growth, other than say he is planning to tax those that are likely to drive UK growth more, which is likely to do the opposite. It is really like he does not have a clue what to do. I would like to hear a clear 2/3 year plan and how we are going to get there. Labour have not handled the forthcoming budget at all well. Since elected we've heard a lot of doom and gloom about "black holes" and "things are going to get worse before they get better". But they've left a large void between making such negative statements and coming out with their detailed budget/plan at the end of October. As such they've put the entire country in a protracted state of limbo/unsurety and that is evidenced by the news today that consumer confidence has fallen sharply. Entirely understandable as people (and businesses) are reluctant to "make a move" unless they know what direction government policy is going to take which we still won't know for another month. This nearly four month limbo period is certainly not going to help with economic growth and at the very best cause stagnation. |
|
