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Post by vjaska on Dec 29, 2022 14:23:15 GMT
What about Biggin Hill. That's one area that I feel could do with a train station as the residents over there rely on the 246 to Hayes, 320 to Bromley South and North and the R2 to Orpington. Question is where would it be placed? There have been propsals in the past to construct a railway line from Orpington to Biggin Hill. There was a proposal in 1902 for a line to Tatsfield but it came to nothing due to a lack of investment. A more ambitious proposal for the Southern Heights Light Railway, which was to have been an electrified line between Orpington and Sanderstead, was promoted by Colonel H F Stephens in the 1920s and was supported by the Southern Railway, which would have operated the line. A Light Railway Order for the construction of the line was granted on 29th December 1928 (94 years ago today) but lapsed in December 1930 as again the necessary funding could not be secured. The Southern Railway then withdrew its support and the line came to nothing. The SHLR did leave a legacy though - The Southern Railway planned to electrify the Woodside-Sandersted line, which had closed to passengers in 1917 but remained open for freight, excursions and diverted trains, so that a loop service could be operated over the new line from Charing Cross or Cannon Street via Lewisham-Orpington-Sandersted-Lewisham and v.v., this work was allowed to go ahead and regular electric services to Sandersted commenced in 1935. Services continued, latterly as a shuttle service to and from Elmers End at peak times only, until May 1983. Some of the formation is now used by Tramlink. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Heights_Light_RailwayShame it didn't exist as I wonder over time, some of it might have morphed into the current Victoria to Oprington services giving Biggin Hill a one train link to Central London |
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 29, 2022 15:34:23 GMT
There have been propsals in the past to construct a railway line from Orpington to Biggin Hill. There was a proposal in 1902 for a line to Tatsfield but it came to nothing due to a lack of investment. A more ambitious proposal for the Southern Heights Light Railway, which was to have been an electrified line between Orpington and Sanderstead, was promoted by Colonel H F Stephens in the 1920s and was supported by the Southern Railway, which would have operated the line. A Light Railway Order for the construction of the line was granted on 29th December 1928 (94 years ago today) but lapsed in December 1930 as again the necessary funding could not be secured. The Southern Railway then withdrew its support and the line came to nothing. The SHLR did leave a legacy though - The Southern Railway planned to electrify the Woodside-Sandersted line, which had closed to passengers in 1917 but remained open for freight, excursions and diverted trains, so that a loop service could be operated over the new line from Charing Cross or Cannon Street via Lewisham-Orpington-Sandersted-Lewisham and v.v., this work was allowed to go ahead and regular electric services to Sandersted commenced in 1935. Services continued, latterly as a shuttle service to and from Elmers End at peak times only, until May 1983. Some of the formation is now used by Tramlink. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Heights_Light_RailwayShame it didn't exist as I wonder over time, some of it might have morphed into the current Victoria to Oprington services giving Biggin Hill a one train link to Central London I think that even if the line had been built, it really would have struggled. The population of Biggin Hill even today is is less than 10,000 (although it might have been higher with the railway) and by the 1930s buses and coaches would have been serious competitors. Biggin Hill had a direct Green Line coach link to London for many years. The creation of the Green Belt after the Second World War and the growth of private motoring would eventually have killed the line off. |
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Post by mkay315 on Dec 29, 2022 16:43:49 GMT
What about Biggin Hill. That's one area that I feel could do with a train station as the residents over there rely on the 246 to Hayes, 320 to Bromley South and North and the R2 to Orpington. Question is where would it be placed? There have been propsals in the past to construct a railway line from Orpington to Biggin Hill. There was a proposal in 1902 for a line to Tatsfield but it came to nothing due to a lack of investment. A more ambitious proposal for the Southern Heights Light Railway, which was to have been an electrified line between Orpington and Sanderstead, was promoted by Colonel H F Stephens in the 1920s and was supported by the Southern Railway, which would have operated the line. A Light Railway Order for the construction of the line was granted on 29th December 1928 (94 years ago today) but lapsed in December 1930 as again the necessary funding could not be secured. The Southern Railway then withdrew its support and the line came to nothing. The SHLR did leave a legacy though - The Southern Railway planned to electrify the Woodside-Sandersted line, which had closed to passengers in 1917 but remained open for freight, excursions and diverted trains, so that a loop service could be operated over the new line from Charing Cross or Cannon Street via Lewisham-Orpington-Sandersted-Lewisham and v.v., this work was allowed to go ahead and regular electric services to Sandersted commenced in 1935. Services continued, latterly as a shuttle service to and from Elmers End at peak times only, until May 1983. Some of the formation is now used by Tramlink. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Heights_Light_RailwaySome interesting facts here |
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Post by northlondon83 on Dec 29, 2022 17:42:04 GMT
What about an extension of the Hayes line to Biggin Hill perhaps calling at Keston and Downe on the way
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Post by ADH45258 on Dec 29, 2022 17:48:54 GMT
Regarding Biggin Hill, perhaps a new bus service via Tatsfield to Oxted (or Woldingham) could be useful, connecting to a faster train service into Central London?
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 29, 2022 17:55:55 GMT
What about an extension of the Hayes line to Biggin Hill perhaps calling at Keston and Downe on the way Would the geography allow it? Also I don't think the population of this area is large enough to justify a railway today (it probably wasn't even in the 1930s). People who choose to live there generally accept that they are dependent on their cars or the bus services available. It might be possible to tweak the local bus services to allow better rail connections though. |
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 29, 2022 18:24:46 GMT
Regarding Biggin Hill, perhaps a new bus service via Tatsfield to Oxted (or Woldingham) could be useful, connecting to a faster train service into Central London? Such a service would need to be commercial as it would operate mostly outside Greater London. My guess is that most locals would still want to travel on TfL buses to Hayes, Bromley or Orpington as the fares would be much cheaper. |
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Post by markyl on Dec 29, 2022 21:37:53 GMT
1894 Railway Proposal
London Evening Standard - Saturday 24 November 1894
A new railway from Bromley (Kent) to Farnborough, which is about four miles distance, is in contemplation, and the statutory notice of the intention to promote a bill in Parliament authorising the construction of the line has been published. It is proposed that the line shall commence at the Bromley Station on the London, Chatham, and Dover Railway, and run by way of Hayes, Hayes Common, Barnet Wood, Gravel-road, Sevenoaks-road, and to Locks- bottom (Farnborough), where for the present the line will end, but it is thought that it will be eventually extended. The property of many well-known local landowners will be traversed.
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Post by ibus246 on Dec 29, 2022 22:35:35 GMT
Regarding Biggin Hill, perhaps a new bus service via Tatsfield to Oxted (or Woldingham) could be useful, connecting to a faster train service into Central London? Southdown already go to Oxted on their 595 from Tatsfield. Although infrequent, I don’t think the route sets the world alight. |
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Post by buspete on Dec 31, 2022 21:20:10 GMT
There used to be a railway line to Westerham from Dunton Green.
It is not just the population, but Biggin Hill is in a valley, so the topography to built a cheap railway is wrong.
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Post by northlondon83 on Dec 31, 2022 22:31:37 GMT
I'd extend the Victoria line from Seven Sisters to West Chingford calling at:
Northumberland Park
Higham Hill
Chingford Mount
West Chingford (where the 313 meets the 215)
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Post by vjaska on Dec 31, 2022 23:02:00 GMT
I'd extend the Victoria line from Seven Sisters to West Chingford calling at: Northumberland Park Higham Hill Chingford Mount West Chingford (where the 313 meets the 215) The Victoria Line is far from ideal in terms of extension at either end (believe me, I'd extend it southwards from Brixton if it were feasible) |
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Post by VMH2537 on Jan 1, 2023 9:00:51 GMT
I'd extend the Victoria line from Seven Sisters to West Chingford calling at: Northumberland Park Higham Hill Chingford Mount West Chingford (where the 313 meets the 215) There isn't a strong business case to have a station in Yardley Lane. Sadly the green belt legislation prevents large scale developments on green lands meaning limited returns will be gained. Yardley Lane is respectively in close distance to Chingford station by taking the 313 or 379 services as well there's Ponders End to the west for WAML services. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 1, 2023 12:56:35 GMT
I'd extend the Victoria line from Seven Sisters to West Chingford calling at: Northumberland Park Higham Hill Chingford Mount West Chingford (where the 313 meets the 215) The Victoria Line is far from ideal in terms of extension at either end (believe me, I'd extend it southwards from Brixton if it were feasible) There was a plan once going back to the late 80s to extend the Victoria line to Herne Hill in a tunnel that would be a large loop with a small hesitation before heading north again. This was to allow an increase in the number of trains that could run on the Victoria line. |
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Post by Paul on Jan 1, 2023 19:15:21 GMT
What about an extension of the Hayes line to Biggin Hill perhaps calling at Keston and Downe on the way Would the geography allow it? Also I don't think the population of this area is large enough to justify a railway today (it probably wasn't even in the 1930s). People who choose to live there generally accept that they are dependent on their cars or the bus services available. It might be possible to tweak the local bus services to allow better rail connections though. Just a brief glance at Hayes Station suggests any extension would be extremely costly if not a non-starter. The line is level with the High Street so a simple extension would mean demolition of a significant number of shops so you’d be looking at tunnelling. But then where do you pop up? There’s a large amount of woodland and local residents would put up a tremendous amount of resistance to any of this being demolished As you say, people in the area are content to use local bus services or their cars to link to Hayes or Bromley South and I really don’t think there’s any appetite for a railway in the area. Had the various historic proposals come through (I rather like the one from Orpington through Green Street Green, Cudham and Biggin Hill) then it would be a different story as they would be well established by now (if they’d survived Beeching!) A brief glance at a map of the area shows an enormous railway-less area but by now there are plenty of reasons for that. People are content with using different ways to get to the railway and the topography means any construction would be wildly expensive and the line wouldn’t be lucrative enough to make it worthwhile |
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