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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 6, 2023 19:10:18 GMT
I think whilst Khan wants the glory of extra services (it's already in today's Standards about how much these will help with the ULEZ) in reality he needs the running costs from the 346 and 347 to fund the 497. I don’t disagree that view given how little these consultations seems to relate to the ULEZ changes but money was meant to be coming from savings and unnecessary cuts made areas in & around me. I can’t see axing the 346 as well saving a lot of money in the long run I guess unfortunately you were lied to by Khan. |
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Post by WH241 on Mar 6, 2023 20:19:39 GMT
I guess its possible the frequency could be improved on the 497 if the changes go ahead. I know its not mentioned in the consultation but it could be addressed at a later date and dependent on feedback.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 6, 2023 20:59:26 GMT
I don’t disagree that view given how little these consultations seems to relate to the ULEZ changes but money was meant to be coming from savings and unnecessary cuts made areas in & around me. I can’t see axing the 346 as well saving a lot of money in the long run I guess unfortunately you were lied to by Khan. Well he wasn’t lying to me because I was getting the changes anyway 😂 |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 6, 2023 21:13:01 GMT
I guess unfortunately you were lied to by Khan. Well he wasn’t lying to me because I was getting the changes anyway 😂 Yes he lied to us in Outer lol. In truth i think we all saw through it. |
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 6, 2023 21:39:44 GMT
I guess its possible the frequency could be improved on the 497 if the changes go ahead. I know its not mentioned in the consultation but it could be addressed at a later date and dependent on feedback. The 346 isn't getting a cut it's getting and extension to Harold Hill and the 497 the same the only route losing out here really is the 347 and the 347 users who are largely "free" users anyway I imagine so in tfls mind it's a win win and a (Sadiq Khan voice) "New Extension for Londoners providing new links for the ULEZ extension in outer London and Havering" |
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Post by enviroPB on Mar 6, 2023 22:35:43 GMT
I guess its possible the frequency could be improved on the 497 if the changes go ahead. I know its not mentioned in the consultation but it could be addressed at a later date and dependent on feedback. The 346 isn't getting a cut it's getting and extension to Harold Hill and the 497 the same the only route losing out here really is the 347 and the 347 users who are largely "free" users anyway I imagine so in tfls mind it's a win win and a (Sadiq Khan voice) "New Extension for Londoners providing new links for the ULEZ extension in outer London and Havering" You're joking but the Mayor would sell this as a ULEZ win and focusing on services within London and not Essex. Trouble for him is north of Ockenden Road, the 347's routing is fully within the Greater London boundary (with Upminster being the only bit of London that's outside the M25). There will be so much spin on this 497 extension by the Mayor, but the Assembly are brushing up on their bus knowledge; I hope they challenge him branding it as ULEZ improvements when everyone here knows this won't happen on or before August this year. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 7, 2023 9:23:41 GMT
The 346 isn't getting a cut it's getting and extension to Harold Hill and the 497 the same the only route losing out here really is the 347 and the 347 users who are largely "free" users anyway I imagine so in tfls mind it's a win win and a (Sadiq Khan voice) "New Extension for Londoners providing new links for the ULEZ extension in outer London and Havering" You're joking but the Mayor would sell this as a ULEZ win and focusing on services within London and not Essex. Trouble for him is north of Ockenden Road, the 347's routing is fully within the Greater London boundary (with Upminster being the only bit of London that's outside the M25). There will be so much spin on this 497 extension by the Mayor, but the Assembly are brushing up on their bus knowledge; I hope they challenge him branding it as ULEZ improvements when everyone here knows this won't happen on or before August this year. I think you mean South Ockendon as opposed to Upminster |
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Post by rm1422 on Mar 7, 2023 9:45:42 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 7, 2023 9:58:54 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Mar 7, 2023 16:13:37 GMT
I'm just glad someone else has reservations over completely axing the 346 - more of these type of routes should be explored not less. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 7, 2023 18:56:28 GMT
Not local so have absolutely no idea on how well used these routes are but I'll give my opinion:
Not generally in favour of the proposals, though I think that the proposal to run the 497 direct via Hall Road, then to terminate at Upminster Park Estate, since this gives a more direct routing to Upminster station from Harold Hill
As for 'improving Outer London bus services', we've yet again been lied to by Sadiq Khan, this isn't an improvement, this is going backwards, the 346 should stay, if the 347 was withdrawn, I'd add a double run at Ockendon station on the 370 to retain links from the station to Upminster. The withdrawal of the 347 is concerning because St Mary's Lane will no longer have a bus route, though as I've never been in that part of London, I can't exactly say whether there is great demand on that road, but I'd still say that withdrawing the route is a worse outcome than retaining it.
Not sure whether this would work but:
346 retained
497 merged with the 347 south/east of Harold Wood station, hence keeping the link from Upminster station to Ockendon station, with the withdrawal of the 347. Obvious drawback would be the lack of a link from Harold Wood station to Main Road, however tfl's proposal isn't great either. There's always going to be flaws in proposals but was there anything wrong with what currently exists in the area (besides Harold Hill not having a link to Upminster, which I'm sure can be solved without withdrawing 2 other routes). What I do find sad is the fact that they're withdrawing a cross border route, but then it's happened before.
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Post by WH241 on Mar 7, 2023 20:08:53 GMT
Not local so have absolutely no idea on how well used these routes are but I'll give my opinion: Not generally in favour of the proposals, though I think that the proposal to run the 497 direct via Hall Road, then to terminate at Upminster Park Estate, since this gives a more direct routing to Upminster station from Harold Hill As for 'improving Outer London bus services', we've yet again been lied to by Sadiq Khan, this isn't an improvement, this is going backwards, the 346 should stay, if the 347 was withdrawn, I'd add a double run at Ockendon station on the 370 to retain links from the station to Upminster. The withdrawal of the 347 is concerning because St Mary's Lane will no longer have a bus route, though as I've never been in that part of London, I can't exactly say whether there is great demand on that road, but I'd still say that withdrawing the route is a worse outcome than retaining it. Not sure whether this would work but: 346 retained 497 merged with the 347 south/east of Harold Wood station, hence keeping the link from Upminster station to Ockendon station, with the withdrawal of the 347. Obvious drawback would be the lack of a link from Harold Wood station to Main Road, however tfl's proposal isn't great either. There's always going to be flaws in proposals but was there anything wrong with what currently exists in the area (besides Harold Hill not having a link to Upminster, which I'm sure can be solved without withdrawing 2 other routes). What I do find sad is the fact that they're withdrawing a cross border route, but then it's happened before. The 347 is a limited service running 4 trips in each direction Monday to Friday so really can't see that much demand. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 7, 2023 20:59:45 GMT
Not local so have absolutely no idea on how well used these routes are but I'll give my opinion: Not generally in favour of the proposals, though I think that the proposal to run the 497 direct via Hall Road, then to terminate at Upminster Park Estate, since this gives a more direct routing to Upminster station from Harold Hill As for 'improving Outer London bus services', we've yet again been lied to by Sadiq Khan, this isn't an improvement, this is going backwards, the 346 should stay, if the 347 was withdrawn, I'd add a double run at Ockendon station on the 370 to retain links from the station to Upminster. The withdrawal of the 347 is concerning because St Mary's Lane will no longer have a bus route, though as I've never been in that part of London, I can't exactly say whether there is great demand on that road, but I'd still say that withdrawing the route is a worse outcome than retaining it. Not sure whether this would work but: 346 retained 497 merged with the 347 south/east of Harold Wood station, hence keeping the link from Upminster station to Ockendon station, with the withdrawal of the 347. Obvious drawback would be the lack of a link from Harold Wood station to Main Road, however tfl's proposal isn't great either. There's always going to be flaws in proposals but was there anything wrong with what currently exists in the area (besides Harold Hill not having a link to Upminster, which I'm sure can be solved without withdrawing 2 other routes). What I do find sad is the fact that they're withdrawing a cross border route, but then it's happened before. The 347 is a limited service running 4 trips in each direction Monday to Friday so really can't see that much demand. It could be argued that running 4 trips each day for 6 days of the week is hardly going to generate demand in the first place compared to if it had much higher frequency |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 9, 2023 16:56:13 GMT
We are not far off from the 346 moving to Stagecoach in September. I wonder if the results of the consultation will be announced soon? Would make sense to change the 497 at the same time of the tender renewal.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 9, 2023 17:07:48 GMT
We are not far off from the 346 moving to Stagecoach in September. I wonder if the results of the consultation will be announced soon? Would make sense to change the 497 at the same time of the tender renewal. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. I'm not local to the area so haven't seen any local opposition. Has their been alot? |
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