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Post by greenboy on Mar 29, 2023 15:50:42 GMT
If the bus is fully charged it will be able to do 120 miles, or whatever the range is, regardless of whether it's on the X26 or another route so it could do two rounders on the X26 before returning to the garage for a recharge like they do on other routes. I'd imagine it's not financially viable for a bus to do two rounders and then sit charging for hours plus the weather etc would affect the battery , I personally think hybrids capable of 62mph (if any exist) are more suited for long routes and that when 2030 Net Zero comes which won't be long at all there should be a exemption for Buses and Lorries and Plant . That's what happens now with buses on other routes and as mentioned in a previous post there are longer routes than the X26 operating with electric buses.
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Post by route53 on Mar 29, 2023 16:59:36 GMT
Radial links is something that’s missing from the proposals, it’s definitely a missed opportunity. With the X53, I think it would be better if it just went to Plumstead instead of Thamesmead, due to the 472 already providing quite a fast link to Woolwich where an interchange can be provided with an X53. E&C is good enough for changing buses, but I feel like the main commuter draw would be at Charing Cross or Trafalgar Square. With an off peak X68, would it be viable if 4 journeys an hour went via Brixton, and another 4 went via Camberwell? It’s not really my area so vjaska will know more, but it could take pressure off the 109 and 468. I don’t think the X68 needs any modifications and I’ll go further - I don’t see the logic in sticking a X53 or X18 in either. The current express routes (and 607) survive because they have niches that other routes can’t do and largely avoid traffic filled Inner London. The X18 & X53 would need major infrastructure changes to get them to work as an express route as it’s no point sticking them in without it. The other issue is the existing routes would likely have their frequencies decreased in order to facilitate the express route - take the X68, even if it was alternate journeys, it would likely have a knock on effect to the 68, 196 & 468 in terms of current frequencies as I can’t see TfL not meddling with the corridors current routes. Maybe not an X53 but I do believe SE London needs an express bus route along the Woolwich-Lewisham-New Cross corridor, preferably one that links Thamesmead too, you could have an express route that roughly parallels both the 53 and 177 routes, arguably two of the busiest bus routes that serves a major corridor, the 53 intersects between the areas not reached by both the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines.
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Post by londonbuses184 on Mar 29, 2023 17:18:49 GMT
I don’t think the X68 needs any modifications and I’ll go further - I don’t see the logic in sticking a X53 or X18 in either. The current express routes (and 607) survive because they have niches that other routes can’t do and largely avoid traffic filled Inner London. The X18 & X53 would need major infrastructure changes to get them to work as an express route as it’s no point sticking them in without it. The other issue is the existing routes would likely have their frequencies decreased in order to facilitate the express route - take the X68, even if it was alternate journeys, it would likely have a knock on effect to the 68, 196 & 468 in terms of current frequencies as I can’t see TfL not meddling with the corridors current routes. Maybe not an X53 but I do believe SE London needs an express bus route along the Woolwich-Lewisham-New Cross corridor, preferably one that links Thamesmead too, you could have an express route that roughly parallels both the 53 and 177 routes, arguably two of the busiest bus routes that serves a major corridor, the 53 intersects between the areas not reached by both the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines. What about an X13 between Marble Arch and Barnet, The Arkley similar to a suggestion someone made in the forum. The 13 could use with a more efficient service and a Barnet - Golders Green connection.
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Post by rj131 on Mar 29, 2023 17:39:55 GMT
Maybe not an X53 but I do believe SE London needs an express bus route along the Woolwich-Lewisham-New Cross corridor, preferably one that links Thamesmead too, you could have an express route that roughly parallels both the 53 and 177 routes, arguably two of the busiest bus routes that serves a major corridor, the 53 intersects between the areas not reached by both the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines. What about an X13 between Marble Arch and Barnet, The Arkley similar to a suggestion someone made in the forum. The 13 could use with a more efficient service and a Barnet - Golders Green connection. I think get a half usable on the 13 we already have first, before doing anything else to it!
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Post by Trafalgax on Mar 29, 2023 18:02:21 GMT
But there are parts where the 18 is mostly by itself and could do with support from another route and I think a express route could be what’s needed to support the 18. I believe that the 18 needs support from another route like an express route to help it out particularly between Wembley Triangle and Baker Street where it’s largely unsupported. Yeah there’s the 28, 36, 220, 260 and 266 but I believe the 18 needs something else to help alongside it. These express routes aren't intended to provide any sort of support, they're to create new links. It at most just needs a frequency increase, but knowing how this goes TfL will probably be along with a grander scheme to deal with it. I believe the original idea was a limited stop route from Euston to Harrow, so it would provide new links to Harrow via 18 while also supporting it.
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Post by cardinal on Mar 29, 2023 20:06:46 GMT
What about an X13 between Marble Arch and Barnet, The Arkley similar to a suggestion someone made in the forum. The 13 could use with a more efficient service and a Barnet - Golders Green connection. I think get a half usable on the 13 we already have first, before doing anything else to it! Interestingly according to the latest graphs the 113 hasn’t been meeting targets either. I think when TfL adjust frequencies on routes like these the performance suffers. The 16 is another example.
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Post by VMH2537 on Mar 29, 2023 21:24:21 GMT
I will have a wider say on the Superloop proposals.
Whilst I support the idea of having orbital express links in Outer London and helping alternative use of cars. I don't see the proposals filling it.
The X34 proposal from how I see it is designed to support the 34 along most of its routings, I see some merits in this being the Edmonton to Walthamstow section is already at capacity, and can see this reliving some services. The only real drive I can see to this switching people away from cars is a new direct link to North Finchley from Edmonton and Palmers Green (if it alights), that's if only the service can be attractive enough depending on speed and frequency.
This is the North Circular bear in mind, users use it for major destinations along it such as Wood Green, Palmers Green, Brent Cross, etc. Many missed opportunities were missed, the X34, in my opinion, could've benefited from an extension to Brent Cross via Finchley Central to attract users from east of its routing along the North Circular, especially with all the redevelopments taking place and interchanging with the new Thameslink station being served by the new West London orbital rail service if it gets introduced in the future.
Edmonton as well I feel could have been incorporated into the Walthamstow to Royal Docks service to link Ilford and the east and possibly South Woodford if the service alights.
Does the X183 need to go to Finchley? Again I see missed opportunities for a direct Harrow to Brent Cross that could have brought much wider benefits. With all the redevelopments taking place in the area, this could've been a very good addition to the network.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 21:54:15 GMT
I had to laugh at the below statement. I think the biggest change in 20 years was decimating the central London bus network TfL commissioner Andy Lord told the TfL board on Wednesday: “It’s our intention to move as quickly as possible in terms of enabling the entire network.”
The Superloop network will add five million kilometres to TfL’s city-wide bus network. Mr Lord said it was the “biggest change to the London bus network in nearly 20 years”.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 22:07:13 GMT
I will have a wider say on the Superloop proposals. Whilst I support the idea of having orbital express links in Outer London and helping alternative use of cars. I don't see the proposals filling it. The X34 proposal from how I see it is designed to support the 34 along most of its routings, I see some merits in this being the Edmonton to Walthamstow section is already at capacity, and can see this reliving some services. The only real drive I can see to this switching people away from cars is a new direct link to North Finchley from Edmonton and Palmers Green (if it alights), that's if only the service can be attractive enough depending on speed and frequency. This is the North Circular bear in mind, users use it for major destinations along it such as Wood Green, Palmers Green, Brent Cross, etc. Many missed opportunities were missed, the X34, in my opinion, could've benefited from an extension to Brent Cross via Finchley Central to attract users from east of its routing along the North Circular, especially with all the redevelopments taking place and interchanging with the new Thameslink station being served by the new West London orbital rail service if it gets introduced in the future. Edmonton as well I feel could have been incorporated into the Walthamstow to Royal Docks service to link Ilford and the east and possibly South Woodford if the service alights. Does the X183 need to go to Finchley? Again I see missed opportunities for a direct Harrow to Brent Cross that could have brought much wider benefits. With all the redevelopments taking place in the area, this could've been a very good addition to the network. The problem with Brent Cross is the lack of stand space.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 29, 2023 22:59:01 GMT
I don’t think the X68 needs any modifications and I’ll go further - I don’t see the logic in sticking a X53 or X18 in either. The current express routes (and 607) survive because they have niches that other routes can’t do and largely avoid traffic filled Inner London. The X18 & X53 would need major infrastructure changes to get them to work as an express route as it’s no point sticking them in without it. The other issue is the existing routes would likely have their frequencies decreased in order to facilitate the express route - take the X68, even if it was alternate journeys, it would likely have a knock on effect to the 68, 196 & 468 in terms of current frequencies as I can’t see TfL not meddling with the corridors current routes. Maybe not an X53 but I do believe SE London needs an express bus route along the Woolwich-Lewisham-New Cross corridor, preferably one that links Thamesmead too, you could have an express route that roughly parallels both the 53 and 177 routes, arguably two of the busiest bus routes that serves a major corridor, the 53 intersects between the areas not reached by both the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines. And that runs into exactly the same problems I mentioned in my original post. Honestly, it would be great if Inner London could have some of the fun given it’s been left to whither to a slow death but authorities have no interest in reducing car usage and are preoccupied clogging main roads up instead.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 29, 2023 23:06:35 GMT
I feel like branding it as ‘Greenline Local’ or something similar would’ve been much better in terms of marketing, Superloop sounds like they asked Elon to copy his homework but change it up a bit. While it’s not 100% perfect. I do think the current routes more or less form a strong base should any further expansion be looked upon. Yet again unfortunately the lack of a link across Thames in SE London is overlooked, I do think both the Royal Wharf and Bexleyheath routes should have an interchange with each other, most likely at North Greenwich. Greenline local would be a bit too confusing, if so then it may as well be Green. Then people may think it is a coach service like what Greenline has seemed to have morphed into over the past few years.
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Post by route53 on Mar 30, 2023 5:08:25 GMT
Maybe not an X53 but I do believe SE London needs an express bus route along the Woolwich-Lewisham-New Cross corridor, preferably one that links Thamesmead too, you could have an express route that roughly parallels both the 53 and 177 routes, arguably two of the busiest bus routes that serves a major corridor, the 53 intersects between the areas not reached by both the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines. And that runs into exactly the same problems I mentioned in my original post. Honestly, it would be great if Inner London could have some of the fun given it’s been left to whither to a slow death but authorities have no interest in reducing car usage and are preoccupied clogging main roads up instead. ULEZ is being expanded, rightly or wrongly, if Khan wants people out of their cars then there has to be more inner city express routes, the idea of an outer London express network would have been laughed off this forum just a year ago, and now we are discussing how this network can be expanded upon. Inner London’s traffic needs solutions as well, routes like the X68 should be running all day Mon-Fri and busy corridors like Woolwich-Lewisham/Greenwich-E&C needs a bus transit, with all the housing development going on in those areas should justify this.
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 30, 2023 8:46:14 GMT
And that runs into exactly the same problems I mentioned in my original post. Honestly, it would be great if Inner London could have some of the fun given it’s been left to whither to a slow death but authorities have no interest in reducing car usage and are preoccupied clogging main roads up instead. ULEZ is being expanded, rightly or wrongly, if Khan wants people out of their cars then there has to be more inner city express routes, the idea of an outer London express network would have been laughed off this forum just a year ago, and now we are discussing how this network can be expanded upon. Inner London’s traffic needs solutions as well, routes like the X68 should be running all day Mon-Fri and busy corridors like Woolwich-Lewisham/Greenwich-E&C needs a bus transit, with all the housing development going on in those areas should justify this. I agree with this you have multiple A roads feeding from the Outer Suburbs in to Zone 2 & 1 , why not have express routes along them to encourage people to jump out cars etc ? And then the Superloop connecting them , also need these bike/escooter hire schemes extended into the suburbs and outskirts pretty ridiculous you can't get one outside zone 2
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Post by route53 on Mar 30, 2023 9:35:16 GMT
ULEZ is being expanded, rightly or wrongly, if Khan wants people out of their cars then there has to be more inner city express routes, the idea of an outer London express network would have been laughed off this forum just a year ago, and now we are discussing how this network can be expanded upon. Inner London’s traffic needs solutions as well, routes like the X68 should be running all day Mon-Fri and busy corridors like Woolwich-Lewisham/Greenwich-E&C needs a bus transit, with all the housing development going on in those areas should justify this. I agree with this you have multiple A roads feeding from the Outer Suburbs in to Zone 2 & 1 , why not have express routes along them to encourage people to jump out cars etc ? And then the Superloop connecting them , also need these bike/escooter hire schemes extended into the suburbs and outskirts pretty ridiculous you can't get one outside zone 2 Exactly this, such express routes are needed, especially in SE London, where there are few tube options, Khan wants us out of our cars yet what is he replacing cars with in inner London? The only reason why the outer boroughs are getting the superloop is because those boroughs are overwhelmingly anti ulez and as most of these boroughs are traditionally Tory, Khan has to be seen as trying to win them over.
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Post by Paul on Mar 30, 2023 10:36:11 GMT
The problem with Brent Cross is the lack of stand space. That’s the issue in the SE corner of the proposals. Unless they are directly replacing the 119 and 269 there isn’t stand space in Bromley to stand another two routes let alone at Bromley North! I doubt you could shoehorn another route in at Bexleyheath either
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